@cy The solution for this problem is being worked on right now: nomadic identity via ActivityPub.
Nomadic identity itself is old. It was first implemented in the Fediverse in 2012 on what's Hubzilla today (I am writing to you from Hubzilla, and my Hubzilla channel is nomadic). However, the only two existing stable implementations of nomadic identity both rely on two different versions of a protocol that is not ActivityPub.
@██ 𝙴𝚞𝚋𝚒𝚎 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚠 ██ (🦣) What the masses fleeing from Twitter want is Twitter. Twitter without Musk, but otherwise Twitter.
In other words, a centralised, monolithic, walled-up silo for total dumb-dumbs with Twitter's UI and Twitter's UX. An even closer Twitter clone than Bluesky.
And if it can't be centralised and monolithic and walled-up because it's a) decentralised itself and b) in the Fediverse, it must still present itself to the general public and everyone on 𝕏 as centralised, monolithic and walled-up. That's all they can handle. It even has to lie to the users on its own lighthouse instance to keep them on board.
The start poster literally states that the Fediverse and Mastodon are the exact same thing. He has been on Mastodon for two years, since immediately after Musk has bought Twitter out.
Another Mastodon user applauds.
A Friendica user reply-guys the start poster and Fedisplains that the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon.
I was tempted to jump in myself and correct that guy about the Fediverse allegedly only being Mastodon. But this has been taken care of.
If you use the phrase "Mastodon and the Fediverse", I can't take you seriously either. Clearly, not only don't you really know anything about the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, but you don't even really care for anything that isn't Mastodon.
The network is called "Fediverse", and it is far from being only Mastodon.
"Mastodon" should only refer to that particular part of the Fediverse in contrast to e.g. Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast and all the rest of the Fediverse.
https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/61cf/fep-61cf.md Invented in 2018 by Mike Macgirvin for Zap (Zot6 development platform; discontinued 2022). Backported to Hubzilla in 2020. Full server-side and client-side implementation only in Hubzilla (based on Zot6, also supports ActivityPub etc.), (streams) (based on Nomad, also supports Zot6 and ActivityPub) and Forte (based on ActivityPub). Friendica has a client-side implementation. Mastodon has a client-side implementation pull request that has to be merged eventually.
@glyn Decentralised identity has been available for longer than Mastodon, let alone ActivityPub. Only that it is known as "nomadic identity" here.
It was first implemented by Friendica creator @Mike Macgirvin ?️ in the Zot protocol in 2011 and in a Friendica fork named Red in 2012, later renamed into the Red Matrix, eventually reworked and renamed into Hubzilla in 2015.
Proof: This Hubzilla channel of mine actually simultaneously resides on two servers.
(Almost) everything that Mike has made afterwards, forks and forks of forks of Hubzilla, used to have or still have nomadic identity implemented.
His streams repository contains a fork of a fork... of Hubzilla that intentionally has no name, and that offers nomadic identity via the Nomad protocol with better compatibility with non-nomadic ActivityPub. In July, it had decentralised IDs as per FEP-ef61 (see also here) implemented, a first step by Mike to fully implement nomadic identity in ActivityPub.
Forte, Mike's most recent fork from August, had all support for Nomad and Zot6 removed and only uses ActivityPub anymore while still offering nomadic identity. To my best knowledge, however, it has yet to be declared stable enough to be daily-driven, and it has no public instances.
Other than all this, a non-public development version of @silverpill's Mitra has nomadic identity via ActivityPub in development. I'm not sure whether FEP-ef61 is implemented in the release version yet. It's the only Fediverse project aiming to implement nomadic identity which Mike Macgirvin has nothing directly to do with.
The ultimate goal is to be able to clone a Fediverse identity across project borders. Only considering stable releases, it's currently only possible to clone Hubzilla channels within Hubzilla, using Zot6, or (streams) channels within (streams), using Nomad.
Unfortunately, Mike has officially retired from Fediverse development and only occasionally submits code to the streams repository and Forte anymore.
It is moving from only ostracising people for not providing image descriptions past ostracising people for providing useless image descriptions towards ostracising people for providing AI-generated image descriptions because they're at least partially wrong. The next victims may be people whose image descriptions leave out elements in the image which others may deem necessary to describe.
As quality requirements for image descriptions are being raised, I can't possibly lower the quality of my own image descriptions. If anything, I'll continue to upgrade my own image descriptions to stay ahead.
This is also why I'm worried about moving the long descriptions from the post text body into linked external documents. Not having certain descriptions and any explanations anywhere in the post anymore may backfire, and the external documents themselves may not be accessible and inclusive after all.
Interestingly, this is not congruent with what I read from actually non-sighted people. They don't even seem to care for accuracy which they can't verify anyway as long as the image description is funny and/or whimsical. Since it seems to be exactly that what AI delivers, it's no wonder that many blind people prefer image descriptions from BeMyAI over image descriptions from human experts.
I think I'll keep on writing my monster descriptions, two for each original image. If any of you who aren't sighted don't like them for not being whimsical enough, feel free to ignore the hours or days of work I've put into them, fire up your AI and have your own image description generated.
@villon Okay, das wird jetzt alles extrem überraschend sein. Und das wird seeeehr viel Text. Und du wirst dir sehr oft verwundert die Augen reiben.
Aber erstmal die Basics:
Das ist kein Tröt. Das kam nämlich nicht von Mastodon. Du hast es auf Mastodon gelesen, aber es kam nicht von Mastodon. Das hier, was du gerade liest, übrigens auch nicht.
Nein, wirklich nicht.
Das Fediverse ist nicht nur Mastodon. Mastodon ist nicht das einzige Projekt im Fediverse.
Das Fediverse ist ein Netzwerk, in dem zigtausende Server vereint sind, auf denen weit über 100 verschiedene Projekte laufen, die alle miteinander verbunden sind und alle miteinander interagieren und kommunizieren, obwohl sie alle mehr oder weniger unabhängig voneinander entwickelt werden. Mastodon ist nur eins davon.
Und ja, das ist vollkommen normal. Das ist und war immer das Konzept des Fediverse.
Denn, wichtig zum Verständnis: Das Fediverse fing nicht mit Mastodon an. Mastodon ist von 2016 (und nicht etwa von 2022 und als Reaktion auf Musks Ankündigung der Twitter-Übernahme entwickelt worden, falls du das geglaubt haben solltest). Der Begriff "Fediverse" ist aber von 2012. Der älteste Dienst, der heute noch auf eine Art Teil des Fediverse ist, war StatusNet von 2008, heute Teil von GNU social.
Das heißt eben auch: Das Fediverse besteht nicht aus Mastodon und Diensten, die sich dann mit Mastodon verbunden haben. Denn als Mastodon gestartet wurde, war es nicht allein. Es hat sich in dem Augenblick, wo es gestartet wurde, mit StatusNet, Friendica (von 2010), Hubzilla (technisch von 2012, namentlich von 2015) und Pleroma (auch von 2016, aber meines Wissens dreieinhalb Wochen älter als Mastodon) verbunden.
@Matthias ✔ (@feb) ist nicht auf Mastodon. Er ist auf Friendica. Und ich bin übrigens auf Hubzilla. Und du bist auf Mastodon. Trotzdem können wir miteinander kommunizieren.
Last but not least: Was es sonst noch so im Fediverse gibt, ist auch nicht alles wie Mastodon, nur mit anderem Namen und mit anderem Aussehen. Teilweise sind die Features drastisch unterschiedlich. Es gibt nicht nur Projekte wie Twitter (Mastodon, Glitch, Hometown, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon usw. usw.), sondern auch Projekte wie Instagram (Pixelfed), wie YouTube (PeerTube), wie Twitch (Owncast), wie Reddit (Lemmy, /kbin, Mbin, PieFed, Sublinks), wie Medium (WriteFreely, Plume) usw.
Und selbst die, die im weitesten Sinne Microblogging können, können Sachen, die auf Mastodon gerade für Neulinge komplett unvorstellbar sind. Mastodon ist so ziemlich das einzige Projekt, das Text nicht formatieren kann. Es ist so ziemlich das einzige Projekt, das keine "Quote-Tweets" kann. Es ist so ziemlich das einzige Projekt, das auch nicht zitieren kann. Es ist auch das definitiv einzige Projekt mit einem Zeichenlimit unter 3000.
Deswegen ist das hier auch so lang: Hubzilla hat überhaupt kein Zeichenlimit. Hat es nie gehabt. Es wurde mal von Friendica geforkt, und Friendica hat auch keins.
Mastodon kann zwar all das, was ich hier aufgeführt habe, anzeigen. Jedenfalls mit ein paar Abstrichen bei der Textformatierung. Aber man kann nichts davon auf Mastodon selbst erzeugen. Und es gibt auf Mastodon bei all dem, was ich hier aufgeführt habe, mehr oder weniger starken Widerstand dagegen, daß es eingeführt wird, besonders bei "Quote-Tweets", die auf Twitter als Waffe gegen Minderheiten eingesetzt werden.
@damon It doesn't help that Mastodon itself is largely a bubble.
Some 70% of all Fediverse users are on Mastodon. But it seems like that within Mastodon itself, at least 95% of all posts originate from Mastodon. Maybe even more.
There are several reasons for this.
First of all, other projects don't federate with Mastodon that much.
Misskey is huge in East Asia, especially Japan. And Japanese Misskey users who hardly know English or not at all won't be interested in connecting with Western Mastodon users, so a large chunk of the second-biggest free project in the Fediverse is out of the equation.
Lemmy is the third-biggest, but Lemmy federates with Mastodon only barely so, also because Lemmy is all about discussion groups and enclosed conversations, both of which Mastodon simply doesn't support. Lemmy users can't follow Mastodon users because Lemmy users can't follow users, full stop. And Mastodon users have to wrap their minds around how to federate with Lemmy. It isn't as straight-forward as communication within Mastodon. And so they simply don't.
Other examples include Hubzilla and (streams) channels having ActivityPub off on purpose to keep ignorant and obnoxious Mastodon users out.
But this goes the other way as well. Mastodon can be outright hostile to non-Mastodon users. Why? Because they don't behave like what Mastodon users are used to from Mastodon and, by extent, partly also Twitter. And they have joined the Fediverse in expectation of something that's one big distributed but homogenous Twitter clone. Anything that deviates from that may be disturbing.
There are Mastodon users who, upon seeing a post with over 500 characters, and be it in the federated timeline, block the poster. This alone cuts into the reach of everything that isn't Mastodon. Not few wish for a switch with which they can permanently filter out all posts with over 500 characters.
Others may block everyone who uses text formatting. Either it simply goes on their nerves. Or they can't imagine that it's even possible to format text in the Fediverse because they can't do that on Mastodon, so they think it's all some Unicode trickery. And as this Unicode trickery is not accessible and inclusive because it irritates screen readers, they deem whoever uses text formatting ableist and therefore blockworthy.
Then there's the issue of content warnings. They must be provided the Mastodon way, or you risk being blocked. However, not everything out there provides a) the right text field with b) the right label on it. Non-Mastodon projects may still label the summary field a summary field instead of a CW field like Mastodon does.
Friendica, for example, has done away with that text field entirely and users BBcode tags instead. Hubzilla doesn't provide any means of adding a summary/a Mastodon CW to a reply. And both have had their own way of adding CWs since long before there was Mastodon which their own users consider vastly superior to Mastodon's way.
In general, boosts are very important on Mastodon. I'd say that most activity on Mastodon is boosts because they're so easy to do on a phone without a hardware keyboard. Your reach on Mastodon depends on boosts.
But if you don't play exactly along Mastodon's written and unwritten rules, and if you don't adhere to the "Fediquette" which is entirely defined by only Mastodon users and geared towards only Mastodon's features (or lack thereof), you're boosted far less.
If you post more than 500 characters at once, it takes a lot for your post to get boosted.
If you post an image without alt-text, the post will be boosted dramatically less because not exactly few Mastodon users refuse to boost image posts without alt-text. You may even be muted or blocked for not providing alt-text. But alt-text only is a thing on Mastodon, and hardly anyone provides it outside Mastodon.
In general, anything that deviates from the standards defined by vanilla Mastodon will cut into your visibility on Mastodon deeply.
@Mike McCue If you really want to push it to the limit, here are two suggestions.
@Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ has been a Fediverse developer for 14 years. He has created three Fediverse protocols, he has invented nomadic identity, he has created a whole bunch of Fediverse server applications from Mistpark, today known as Friendica, to Hubzilla to the streams repository to Forte most recently, all forked from each other. He currently maintains the latter two.
He's on (streams) himself, but his channel is still an "old school" one without FEP-ef61 implemented and without its DID scheme.
Also, there is @silverpill, the creator and maintainer of Mitra. Apart from (streams) and Forte, Mitra is the only other Fediverse project that's working on implementing FEP-ef61 and nomadic identity via ActivityPub. Of course, he's on Mitra himself. And unlike (streams), Mitra has switched existing actors to FEP-ef61 on recent versions.
This means that you can not only test Flipboard's compatibility with Mitra, but you can also test Flipboard's compatibility with FEP-ef61 and its DID scheme. Keep in mind, though, that it's still very much a work in progress, and it may change.
Unfortunately, I don't know any (streams) channels with a DID right off the bat that could be interesting for Flipboard. I have two myself, but they're uninteresting.
@Johannes Ernst We need to get to identities that aren't tethered to particular instances. Various approaches have been discussed, all more or less valid IMHO, we just need to get them implemented. We have had one working implementation for 13 years now. In the Fediverse. In stuff that's federated with Mastodon.
@Mike Macgirvin 🖥️, creator of Friendica (2010), creator of Hubzilla (2015), creator and maintainer of the streams repository (2021) and, most recently, creator and maintainer of Forte (all four are being actively maintained, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon), invented the concept of nomadic identity in 2011.
The same year, he implemented it in his own Zot protocol. Zot came to use first in 2012 in a Friendica fork named Red, later the Red Matrix, which became Hubzilla in 2015. Hubzilla still uses the latest stable version of the Zot protocol that's still called Zot. Everything that Mike did since 2012, with the exception of the first Osada from 2018, featured nomadic identity, including (streams) which is based on an "offspring" of Zot called Nomad.
I'm writing to you from a Hubzilla channel that simultaneously resides on two server instances. Not in the shape of a dumb copy, but in the shape of a real-time, bidirectional, live, hot backup.
It's basically what Bluesky has claimed to be a revolutionary new and never-done-before feature in the AT protocol, only that a) it's even more advanced, b) it's older than Bluesky, c) it has been proven to actually work in daily use, and d) it is in daily use.
Right now, Mike is working on implementing nomadic identity using only ActivityPub, specifically FEP-ef61. Even this has advanced beyond theoretical. (streams) has it implemented already. All channels created on accounts that were registered on versions 24.07.20 and newer are made compatible with nomadic ActivityPub. I have two such channels, although neither has a clone yet.
In fact, it could be that at least Forte, which is in a very early stage right now, will have Nomad and maybe even support for Zot6 removed and go nomadic using only ActivityPub. Mike said he wants to sunset Nomad and Zot6 once nomadic identity via ActivityPub is ready for prime time.
The cat is out of the bag. Mike Macgirvin's family of Fediverse server applications has a new member: Forte which he has forked off his own streams repository some three weeks ago.
The first announcement came in a comment on a post about Friendica with which everything had begun, just three days ago. The same day, the up-until-then still unannounced Forte repository was discovered. Unlike what's in the streams repository, Forte seems to have a name again, and Mike refers to it as a "project".
(streams), as its predecessor is colloquially being referred to, is already one of the most advanced and innovative server applications in the Fediverse. It has the most elaborate set of permission controls as of yet, even surpassing Hubzilla, the younger one of its surviving ancestors. Also, Mike uses it to develop the implementation of nomadic identity, his own invention from as early as 2011, purely via ActivityPub, including FEP-ef61. So (streams) itself is already a pioneering work, and its development is far from done.
And now we have Forte which promises to be even more advanced. There are no specs yet, much less any public instances. And even if it's the latest fork in 14 years of Fediverse development, I guess it's far from being ready for prime time. But seriously, it's a (streams) fork.
@ChanceyFleet If you're wondering whether anybody reads these things: YES. I think there are even people who read the utter monstrosities that I write to describe my images, and that I have to write for people to understand my images. Maybe not you, but someone out there.
And there may even actually be people for whom they're useful.
@C.Suthorn :prn: 2) there seems to be no App for Android or iOS. There's no dedicated Friendica app with a stable release. Yet.
There's one in early development, Relatica. But you can't pull it from the Apple App Store or the like just like that.
I'd say the next-best app would be Fedilab because it's explicitly developed against Friendica amongst other projects. So this may mean that Fedilab lets you do more on Friendica than you could do on Mastodon.
Apparently, the old StatusNet app AndStatus works with Friendica, too.
I can't tell you anything more. I don't use Android, I don't use iOS, I don't use Friendica.
An avatar roaming the decentralised and federated 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator, a free and open-source server-side re-implementation of Second Life. Mostly talking about OpenSim, sometimes about other virtual worlds, occasionally about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. No, the Fediverse is not only Mastodon.Even if you see me on Mastodon, I'm not on Mastodon myself. I'm on Hubzilla which is neither a Mastodon instance nor a Mastodon fork. In fact, it's older and much more powerful than Mastodon. And it has always been connected to Mastodon.I regularly write posts with way more than 500 characters. If that disturbs you, block me now, but don't complain. I'm not on Mastodon, I don't have a character limit here.I rather give too many content warnings than too few. But I have absolutely no means of blanking out pictures for Mastodon users.I always describe my images, no matter how long it takes. My posts with image descriptions tend to be my longest. Don't go looking for my image