The Fediverse also includes the streams repository with a Facebook alternative (made by Friendica's creator at the end of a long string of forks). It offers blocking of accounts/channels as well as entire instances, and on the admin side, it even has a user agent filter that can block servers by user agent/server software. It's capable of locking out e.g. the entirety of Mastodon in one fell swoop, but it's just as capable of locking out Threads, which is what it was originally designed for.
Oh, and @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ isn't the Hubzilla main dev anymore either. In 2018, he has passed Hubzilla on to the community in the shape of @Mario Vavti and @Harald Eilertsen to concentrate on the advancement of Zot. He launched Osada (2018), Zap (2018), another Osada (2019), yet another Osada (2020), a new Mistpark (2020; that's Friendica's old name), a new Redmatrix (2020; that's Hubzilla's old name) and Roadhouse (early 2021).
Mike is working on both almost all alone and entirely in his spare time. He has officially "retired" from software development effective September 1st, 2024, so he has more important things to do in his spare time like tend to his land in Australia. You can't expect something from him that looks like several million dollars have been spent by a Silicon Valley corporation on the UI design. Or from anyone in the Fediverse.
Interesting things are going on in the Fediverse right now. And unexpected things.
See, I've always thought that when the shit hits the fan on Facebook, the Mastodon crowd would barge in and drag everyone to Mastodon, no questions asked, no explanation. And we would end up with another few million people for whom the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
I was also afraid of this happening because I know nobody who's on both Facebook and Friendica. In general, Friendica users have quit Facebook long ago, often after Facebook disrupted Friendica's Facebook connector.
Now the shit does hit the fan. But apparently, even on Mastodon, many people are becoming aware that Mastodon is not a good drop-in replacement for Facebook. And that Friendica is much closer. I mean, one of the most important features on Facebook are groups, Mastodon doesn't even know what groups are, but on Friendica, they're an integral part.
It's almost a miracle: Mastodon users are trying to guide Facebook users to Friendica. This also means it's likely that the new Friendicans will know that the Fediverse extends beyond Friendica. I mean, they'll find out anyway because Friendica indicates which server application a post or a comment comes from.
We might be getting to the point where the biggest buzz in the Fediverse quits being self-hosted GoToSocial (and that was the big buzz around New Year) and switches to the oldest surviving project in the Fediverse, not to mention something that's so very much not Twitter-style microblogging for a change.
The reason why Mastodon is so abuzz with Friendica talk is because those who try to guide Facebook users to Friendica often don't know much about Friendica themselves, and now they're shouting into the void for help, hoping that someone catches the hashtag.
I myself am not much of a Friendica expert. It's been a while since I've laid my hands on it. But: I'm connected to a lot of rank-and-file Friendica users. I think I can cover Friendica's entire core bubble in two steps or three at most.
I've succeeded in helping someone interested in Friendica by importing their post onto my stream and repeating it to my own contacts (thanks to Hubzilla introducing repeats). It definitely worked for @Elena Rossini ⁂; I guess she would barely have been able to write her newsletter post about Friendica (read this if you want to get folks off Facebook) if I hadn't stumbled upon her request for help, picked it up and forwarded it. In fact, I can be sure to always reach someone competent in Friendica this way. (Same goes for Hubzilla and (streams), but that's another story, and I could step in and assist myself, too.)
That said, I'm not too keen on manually searching for Friendica help requests and relay them one by one. I could subscribe to mastodon.social's #Friendica hashtag search feed instead. I could even try to make it a channel source and automatically relay what comes in this way to my connections. But that'd flood all that stuff onto the timelines of my hundreds of Mastodon connections as well. If it worked in the first place, because we've got a growing suspicion that this is broken currently.
So here's the shortcut: Maybe some of you Friendica users can subscribe to the #Friendica hashtag search feed on Mastodon yourself and see what's going on there. Here is the URL:
I'd ask if Friendica has per-connection filters, but the hashtag is so busy with support requests in the wake of Facebook's extra enshittification that there's hardly any cruft in-between that needs to be filtered now.
Embed this noticeJupiter Rowland (jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu)'s status on Saturday, 07-Dec-2024 04:13:13 JST
Jupiter RowlandWondering whether I should un-Superblock the various official Mastodon accounts. I've blocked them to unclutter my stream and free it from content that I'm not interested in. Still, since their posts come to me as boosts, they end up on my list of unread activities. And so do all comments from after the posts were boosted to me. These posts often have well over 100 comments. And here on Hubzilla, when I receive a post, and that post is being commented on 150 times, this doesn't count as one unread activity. It counts as 151 unread activities. That's two features that Hubzilla has but Mastodon doesn't at once.
I mean, when something from these accounts is being boosted to me, I get a notification for the post and then 100+ notifications for comments either way, regardless of whether they're Superblocked or not. And when I scroll through those notifications of content that I can't access because it's Superblocked, I have to pick out the few notifications in-between about activities from connection that I haven't Superblocked.
I might just as well un-Superblock them. Okay, then I might be tempted to see that propaganda that at least implies Mastodon is either the best there is in the Fediverse or the Fediverse. Not to mention the masses of comments from 99.9% Mastodon users, most of whom think the Fediverse is only Mastodon, most of the rest of whom think there's nothing better in the Fediverse than Mastodon, and none of whom has read even one other comment in the thread because Mastodon has no concept of conversations.
And I might be tempted to comment on 40 comments which essentially say the same because nobody on Mastodon ever reads other people's comments (because nobody receives them in the first place), and which are based on the assumption of there not being much/anything else in the Fediverse except Mastodon.
I might end up being blocked by another few dozen Mastodon users for whom my comment was the very first activity they've received from outside vanilla Mastodon, the very first one with over 500 characters, maybe the first one with text formatting, not to mention the freakish-looking long-name mentions (no, I can't turn them off, they're hard-coded, and they've been since some four years before Mastodon was launched).
I might even end up in another dispute between "the usual suspects" from Calckey, Akkoma, Friendica etc. on the one side and fundamentalists who want the Fediverse to be only Mastodon on the other side.
But at least I can mark over 100 comments read in one fell swoop by actually loading them.
@Tim Chambers It's sad that it's always Bluesky, Threads and Mastodon. The Fediverse is only represented by Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon, as if there's nothing else. Always.
The Fediverse's quality in microblogging is always measured in what vanilla Mastodon can and can't do. If Mastodon lacks something, the Fediverse lacks it.
But the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. Not even in terms of microblogging.
Pleroma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Akkoma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Misskey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Firefish is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Iceshrimp is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Sharkey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Catodon is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Mitra is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. And that's only a selection.
None of them are related to Mastodon. None of them have even a grain of Mastodon in them. They're fully independent developments.
Feature-wise, they all blow Bluesky and Threads and Mastodon out of the water. In fact, if you want "the Fediverse", read, Mastodon to have a certain feature, Misskey probably has it right now. If Misskey doesn't, Iceshrimp or Sharkey may have it. And that doesn't say anything about the more Facebook-like and even more powerful parts of the Fediverse yet.
If Mastodon wants to evolve, it will first have to catch up to the rest of the Fediverse.
@Dr. Daniel Dizdarevic I still wonder how people coming from Facebook are not able to find out about Friendica, Hubzilla and co, as their experience with Mastodon must be very unsatisfactory. But then again, most people have no media competence whatsoever. Well, for one, Friendica and its descendants have never gone viral. It doesn't help that everything in the family prior to (streams) was made under the assumption of "if you build it, they will come". And especially Friendica was made in an era when phone apps were gimmicks rather than absolute necessities.
Hubzilla lived on Friendica converts most of the time because Friendica was just about the only place where Hubzilla was known at all. I guess most people who jumped ships from Friendica to Hubzilla did it for even more features they might need. This is also why nothing post-Hubzilla really took off: It was mostly known on Hubzilla, but just about all that Hubzilla users knew about it was that it had fewer features than Hubzilla. And people either didn't know or didn't care what was improved in comparison with Hubzilla.
Besides, nobody on Facebook expects there to be a free, decentralised Facebook alternative. And if they don't expect it, they don't Google for it, and they don't stumble upon it. If someone invites them to Mastodon, it's usually either a huge surprise that a free, decentralised alternative to anything exists, or they don't notice that Mastodon is free and/or decentralised.
@Dr. Daniel Dizdarevic Especially because they make it look like the Fediverse is a) Mastodon and b) all kinds of other stuff that actually doesn't really matter. As you've said, most of the time, they post about Mastodon and only Mastodon as if there's nothing else out there. Lumping everything that isn't Mastodon together, keeping it separate from Mastodon and only marginally touching it, if at all, makes it seem like the non-Mastodon Fediverse isn't worth bothering.
@Dr. Daniel Dizdarevic But I don't understand why Mastodon is so popular. In order to understand it, you have to go back to Mastodon's origins in 2016.
Mastodon was brand-new. It was somehow discovered by German press that a German lad almost fresh out of school had developed a "Twitter killer". Searing hot story in Germany which quickly spread beyond Germany.
There was also Pleroma, also from Germany, but Pleroma got nothing because it had made the mistake to position itself as an alternative Web UI for GNU social rather than direct stand-alone competition against Twitter.
There was also diaspora*, a Facebook alternative, but it was nothing but a distant memory of a crowdfunding campaign in summer 2010, in the wake of the Cambridge Analytica story, which raised $320,000 when $12,000 were the goal. But diaspora* itself wasn't released with a bang. Some six years later, it was still a public alpha, it was fairly lack-lustre, and the entire development team had to be replaced on the way. Most people had entirely forgotten about it, even tech journalists.
There were also GNU social (formerly StatusNet), Friendica and Hubzilla, but like Pleroma, the general public had never heard of them.
And so it seemed like this boy from Jena had made something that had never been done before, also because he had a ready-to-run software product and not a plan and a crowdfunding campaign.
Fast-forward to 2017. Certain fringe groups were chased off of Twitter: furries, otaku, LGBTQIA+. The only halfway Twitter-like place that at least some of them had heard of was Mastodon. So that was where they invited each other. Within no time, #awoo was one of the hottest hashtags on Mastodon.
It was especially then that Mastodon grew faster than anything else in the Fediverse.
Fast-forward to early 2022. Elon Musk had announced that he might buy Twitter. The first big Twitter migration wave was kicked off. And everyone who fled from Twitter into the Fediverse landed on Mastodon. Why? Here are some reasons.
There were many more Mastodon users who'd invite people to Mastodon than there were Pleroma users who'd invite people to Pleroma, and especially in the western world, there were far more than there were Misskey users who'd invite people to Misskey. Not to mention their respective forks or stuff that wasn't made to be a Twitter alternative.
For simplicity reasons, Twitter escapees were never given the choice between Fediverse projects. Instead, they weren't even guided to the project websites but to certain instances, mostly mastodon.social. Not only because more choice would have overwhelmed the Twitter escapees more, but also because you can only tweet so much in 280 characters.
Precious few Mastodon users even knew back then that there was more to the Fediverse than Mastodon, much less what there was. Thus, nobody on Mastodon invited anyone from Twitter to Calckey or so.
It actually seemed like Pleroma, Akkoma and the westernised Forkeys slept through the migration wave because there weren't actually masses of people guided from Twitter to one of these.
Neither of them really had that one big official lighthouse instance that could withstand a massive migration wave of hundreds of thousands or even millions of users. I guess their users were rather cautious. All this in spite of especially Pleroma and Akkoma requiring much fewer server resources than Mastodon. Only Misskey had and still has a lighthouse instance that a) can hold loads of users and b) with a domain that makes it look like this lighthouse instance is Misskey.
And so the Fediverse ended up with millions upon millions of people who initially thought that Mastodon, or even the Fediverse itself, was only mastodon.social. Or mstdn.social or mas.to if their inviters were too lazy to type on their phone screens. But most of the time, it was mastodon.social.
A typical Fediverse invite tweet looked like this back then: join mastodon its twitter without musk https://mastodon.social
No link to joinmastodon.org. No mention of instances, much less other instances. And no mention of the rest of the Fediverse.
Well, and now that Mastodon makes for 70% of the Fediverse, and at least every other Mastodon user still doesn't know about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon, there are still more people trying to invite 𝕏 users to Mastodon than people trying to invite 𝕏 users to anything else in the Fediverse combined.
Tech media and mass media don't help either. Mastodon had a huge boom, but everything else in the Fediverse didn't. Thus, Mastodon was noticed by tech media and mass media, and everything else in the Fediverse wasn't. Thus, tech media and mass media only wrote about Mastodon, but hardly about the Fediverse itself and never at all about Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey/Firefish, Sharkey, Iceshrimp etc. because they never even noticed that any of these exist. Thus, the general public read about Mastodon, but hardly about the Fediverse and not at all about anything else in the Fediverse. Thus, people only know Mastodon.
And now you have next to nobody on Pleroma trying to invite people from 𝕏 to Pleroma.
You have next to nobody on Akkoma trying to invite people from 𝕏 to Akkoma.
You have next to nobody on Iceshrimp trying to invite people from 𝕏 to Iceshrimp.
You have next to nobody on Sharkey trying to invite people from 𝕏 to Sharkey.
But you have loads of people on Mastodon trying to invite people from 𝕏 to Mastodon.
You have loads of people on Mastodon trying to invite people from Facebook to Mastodon because they've never even heard about the existence of Friendica, much less Hubzilla, (streams) or Socialhome.
You have loads of people on Mastodon trying to invite people from all kinds of commercial silos to Mastodon because Mastodon is all they've ever heard of, and besides, they try to race Bluesky in terms of user numbers.
When it comes to microblogging, we now have:
Bluesky: the next Twitter. Also with easy onboarding because it's centralised. (Bluesky nerds: "Ackchually..." @Christine Lemmer-Webber: "ACKCHUALLY...")
Threads: Meta Platforms = Facebook = Zuckerberg = evil!1!!
Nostr: Either you've never heard of it, or it's a playground for cryptobros by cryptobros.
Mastodon: The only non-commercial alternative to the Birdcage known to mankind, but WAYYYYYY too complicated because you have to choose an instance! (Not like both joinmastodon.org and the official app railroad you to mastodon.social. Not like the official Bluesky app doesn't let you pick a PDS to join.)
Pleroma: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that.
Akkoma: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that.
Misskey: only known in Japan.
Firefish: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that.
Iceshrimp: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that.
Sharkey: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that. Apparently, not even the 2SLGBTQIA+ community.
Catodon: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that.
Mitra: :person_shrugging: Never heard of that.
And so forth...
In short: Mastodon is only so popular because nobody knows anything else. Its only advantage over the rest of the Fediverse is that many more people know it.
@Dr. Daniel Dizdarevic No, it's rather because people don't know what's in the Fediverse and what isn't.
I mean, at least every other Mastodon user thinks the Fediverse equals Mastodon and only Mastodon.
Let's assume I mention my own Hubzilla channel somewhere in some context. I'll hit two obstacles. One, three out of four Fediverse users have never heard of Hubzilla, so how shall they assume that it's a Fediverse project if I don't explicitly tell them so? Two, again, many think the Fediverse is only Mastodon, so how shall they assume that Hubzilla is in the Fediverse when it's completely unimaginable to them that there could be anything else in the Fediverse that isn't Mastodon?
Also, especially on Mastodon, nobody can tell where my post is from. Next to nobody looks up any posts at their sources anyway. Mastodon doesn't show where a post came from, software-wise. And net everyone can tell from certain signs (what mentions look like, what hashtags look like) that something came from something that's very much not Mastodon. Only the very few who can be bothered to look at my post at its source will notice that it came from something that has "Hubzilla" written on top. For the majority, everything in their Mastodon timeline came from Mastodon.
@Ringwood Unitarians Co-organis But there are loads of pictures out there if one searches. Three attached. If one searches.
If one wants to search.
If one suspects there to be something else out there in the Fediverse.
But for many Mastodon users, the Fediverse is Mastodon and only Mastodon, and that's an absolutely undeniable fact. Set in stone. It couldn't possibly be any different. They don't even take into consideration that it could be any different. "Fediverse" is the name of the Mastodon network which is nothing but Mastodon and more Mastodon. Full stop.
Why else do so many Mastodon users use "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually exchangeably or even out-right claim that the Fediverse is only Mastodon with such utter confidence?
Why else does the revelation that something that isn't Mastodon is connected to Mastodon and claims its place in the Fediverse leave so many Mastodon users deranged enough to generously dish out mutes and blocks in an attempt to make the Fediverse only Mastodon again, or at least make it feel like it's still only Mastodon?
Even if you write about e.g. your Hubzilla channel or your WriteFreely blog, hardly anyone will know that they can follow you there. Yes, even when you write about your Hubzilla channel from your Hubzilla channel. Especially Mastodon users won't know what Hubzilla is, they won't know that they can follow Hubzilla channels from Mastodon, and they'll assume that you've just posted from Mastodon.
So if you want people to know that whatever you're writing about is part of the Fediverse and connected to Mastodon, you have to explicitly mention both.
@Flipboard I'd suggest his namesake, @Mike Macgirvin ?️, creator of more Fediverse protocols and server applications than anyone, including the Nomad protocol as well as Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, and original inventor of nomadic identity. But I'm not sure if he wants to be interviewed, not to mention he's living down under.
@cy The solution for this problem is being worked on right now: nomadic identity via ActivityPub.
Nomadic identity itself is old. It was first implemented in the Fediverse in 2012 on what's Hubzilla today (I am writing to you from Hubzilla, and my Hubzilla channel is nomadic). However, the only two existing stable implementations of nomadic identity both rely on two different versions of a protocol that is not ActivityPub.
@██ 𝙴𝚞𝚋𝚒𝚎 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚠 ██ (🦣) What the masses fleeing from Twitter want is Twitter. Twitter without Musk, but otherwise Twitter.
In other words, a centralised, monolithic, walled-up silo for total dumb-dumbs with Twitter's UI and Twitter's UX. An even closer Twitter clone than Bluesky.
And if it can't be centralised and monolithic and walled-up because it's a) decentralised itself and b) in the Fediverse, it must still present itself to the general public and everyone on 𝕏 as centralised, monolithic and walled-up. That's all they can handle. It even has to lie to the users on its own lighthouse instance to keep them on board.
The start poster literally states that the Fediverse and Mastodon are the exact same thing. He has been on Mastodon for two years, since immediately after Musk has bought Twitter out.
Another Mastodon user applauds.
A Friendica user reply-guys the start poster and Fedisplains that the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon.
I was tempted to jump in myself and correct that guy about the Fediverse allegedly only being Mastodon. But this has been taken care of.
If you use the phrase "Mastodon and the Fediverse", I can't take you seriously either. Clearly, not only don't you really know anything about the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, but you don't even really care for anything that isn't Mastodon.
The network is called "Fediverse", and it is far from being only Mastodon.
"Mastodon" should only refer to that particular part of the Fediverse in contrast to e.g. Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast and all the rest of the Fediverse.
An avatar roaming the decentralised and federated 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator, a free and open-source server-side re-implementation of Second Life. Mostly talking about OpenSim, sometimes about other virtual worlds, occasionally about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. No, the Fediverse is not only Mastodon.Even if you see me on Mastodon, I'm not on Mastodon myself. I'm on Hubzilla which is neither a Mastodon instance nor a Mastodon fork. In fact, it's older and much more powerful than Mastodon. And it has always been connected to Mastodon.I regularly write posts with way more than 500 characters. If that disturbs you, block me now, but don't complain. I'm not on Mastodon, I don't have a character limit here.I rather give too many content warnings than too few. But I have absolutely no means of blanking out pictures for Mastodon users.I always describe my images, no matter how long it takes. My posts with image descriptions tend to be my longest. Don't go looking for my image