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1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:07:46 JST Paul Cantrell

   I have, much to my dismay, learned enough about stock trading to explain how to bet against Tesla as an individual, with your own money. Doing this can put downward pressure on Tesla’s stock price and hurt the company. (And if, like me, you’re betting that Tesla is grossly overvalued and #TeslaTakedown will hit it hard, then this might actually make you money — but don’t count on that!)

   I’ll share what I’ve learned in a thread here. I hope it helps others, and I hope people with actual expertise will correct me if I say anything wrong.

   1/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:13:54 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Here’s the brief version:

     - You can buy something called an “inverse ETF” to bet against a company.
     - You can lose this way, but not more money than you put in.
     - The inverse ETFs for Tesla are TSLS, TSLQ, and TSLZ.
     - Holding on to them hurts Tesla.
     - To buy them, you need a brokerage account, and it needs to let you buy inverse ETFs.
     - Anyone can open a brokerage account. It’s a nuisance and it takes 3+ days, but it’s ~free.

     2/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:18:57 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Like me, you’ve probably heard of shorting stock as a way of betting against a company. Everything I’ve learned about this says: DON’T. This is like learning to snowboard by doing jumps off a rocky cliff. You will hurt yourself badly.

     The details are complicated, but the short of it (pun intended) is that you can actually lose •more• money than you put in. And there’s no limit to how much shorting can put you in debt. Don’t.

     3/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:25:20 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Fortunately, there’s this thing called an “inverse ETF” that lets you bet against a company without that risk. Again, details are ridiculously complicated, but basically it acts like a normal stock that moves in opposite proportion to some other stock.

     The important thing here is that is puts downward price pressure on a stock — i.e. it hurts that company’s investors — without the possibility of you losing more money than you put in.

     4/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:28:16 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Inverse ETFs are not a good investment choice unless you really, really believe than a company’s stock price is going to go down. And investment guides tell you that you shouldn’t normally hold them for more than a very short period.

     AFAICT, that’s because •running• an inverse ETF is costly, and the people who run them past those costs on to inverstors. So they tend to lose money long term unless the stock •keeps• going down and down and down and down.

     But if you actually think a stock is going to do that, well….

     5/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:32:32 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     If you think Musk is bad news, if you want to bet against Tesla, and if you have a little money to do that, here’s the tactic:

     - Buy TSLQ, TSLZ, and/or TSLS.
     - Do •not• put in more money than you’re willing to lose. Expect that you’re kissing your money good-bye when you buy those ETFs. If your bet pays off, lucky you! But don’t spend your life savings on this, for heaven’s sake.
     - Hold, hold, hold until Musk is completely kicked out of either Tesla or the government.

     6/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:34:17 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     If like me you need to open a brokerage account, Fidelity or Charles Schwab seem like credible choices.

     If you already have a retirement account, you might be able to open an brokerage account there too and save yourself minor hassle — but make sure they actually like you buy inverse ETFs (TIAA does not, for example).

     If you have a SEP-IRA, it may let you trade inverse ETFs without needing a separate brokerage account (but see warning above about not betting money you can’t afford to lose).

     7/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:36:19 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     If you open a brokerage account, expect minor hassle spread over 3+ days. You have to fill out forms online, verify your bank account, transfer money in, yada yada. They walk you through the process. Just expect lots of waiting.

     I personally do not trust the thing where you log into your bank account through the brokerage’s web site. Yikes. I used direct deposts to verify my account, which took 3 days but feels like a lot less of a security YIKES to me.

     8/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:37:57 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Bebadefabo

     @bebadefabo
     Buy the inverse ETF; do •••NOT••• short. Otherwise yes what you said.

   • Embed this notice
     Bebadefabo (bebadefabo@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:37:58 JST Bebadefabo

     in reply to

     @inthehands Short the stock. Smear dog shit on the windshield wipers and under the door handles on the swastikars. It's a winning combination #TeslaTakedown #WallStBets #Debillionaritization

   • Embed this notice
     Advanced Persistent Teapot (http_error_418@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:38:37 JST Advanced Persistent Teapot

     in reply to

     @inthehands that's an AW HELL NO from me, Jim

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:42:55 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Once you have your brokerage account:

     - Transfer that small “I’m willing to lose this much” amount into your brokerage account
     - Buy TSLZ, TSLQ, and TSLS.
     - Hold on to it. Don’t even pay attention to it going up and down unless you’re a glutton for punishment.
     - (And maybe just do •not• do any of this if you know you have a gambling addiction. You will be tempted to put in more than you should.)

     9/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:45:59 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     I put in just a few hundred dollars, an amount I’m wiling to sacrifice. I think Tesla’s in deep shit and this might actually make money, but it’s a moonshot.

     Regardless of whether I personally make money, this signals to the market that I think Tesla is overvalued and likely in serious trouble. That hurts Musk, whose power and wealth is directly tied up in the huge amount of Tesla stock he owns — and in people believing he’s some kind of magical golden child who will turn Tesla into a money unicorn with his galaxy brain.

     10/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:48:55 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     And yes, Tesla investors are gradually starting to understand that maybe Musk is trouble. Like the poor schmuck in this article:

     https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/20/tesla-musk-trump-work-cybertruck-recall-dan-ives-protests

     ❝Ives said Musk needed to announce formally that he was going to balance running Doge with being Tesla’s chief executive. Doing so would “dissipate” the heat around Tesla and avoid permanent brand damage, although there would still be a “scar”, he said. “Investors need to see Musk take a step back and balance his Doge and Tesla CEO roles,” Ives said.❞

     “Formally announce…balance…dissipate….” Oh, poor spring child, you are just beginning to dimly compherend the hot water you are in.

     11/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:52:18 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     In my ignorance, it seems like a large number of people buying a small amounts of these inverse ETFs really could make a difference.

     The inverse ETFs •do• actually drive down the stock price, AIUI: more shares of the inverse ETFs → more Tesla stock shorted → price of Tesla driven down. That directly takes money from Musk’s pockets. And it makes Tesla stock riskier and risker for the big funds who’ve been buying it as a supposedly safe bet.

     12/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:53:27 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     So, if you want to help, if you have time and a little money and are interested but daunted…well, ask questions! I’m no expert, but I’m happy to talk about my own experience, and hopefully others here can help too.

     /end

   • Embed this notice
     David Andersen (dave_andersen@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:54:05 JST David Andersen

     in reply to

     @inthehands There's also the option of doing it the old-fashioned way: Sell short and buy a protective call. It's fairly straightforward and you can do it on brokerages like Vanguard that don't let you trade in the inverse ETFs.

     Example:
     Sell 100 shares TSLA short @ $235
     Buy 1 protective call at $300, let's say for 7/18/2025 at $15 (which costs you $1500)

     Your loss is now capped: The call gives you the right to buy 100 shares of TSLA for $300, so if it goes over, you sell the call and close the short. Anywhere >= $300, you have lost $65+$15 = $80 per share, or $8000.

     Anywhere over $220, you're still losing money.

     Anywhere under $220, you're making money.

     It exposes the other risk of shorting, of course: If you want to stay short, you have to keep rolling forward your protective call, so if the stock stays flat, it's going to cost you something like $1500 per 4 months. But that risk is there with the inverse ETFs too, it's just more clear here _why_ you're losing money.

   • Embed this notice
     aburka 🫣 (aburka@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:55:44 JST aburka 🫣

     in reply to

     @inthehands what is the difference between the three?

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:57:29 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Paul

     @nhpaul
     In my ignorance — not an expert!! — I think that if you could figure out exactly how much of your money your mutual funds have in TSLA and then buy exactly that much TSLS, then yes, it would kind-of-sort-of cancel out the good that the mutual fund is doing Tesla by holding their stock, at least in market signal terms. But it would also lose you more money than if the fund simply sold their TSLA and gave it to you as cash, because ETFs are inefficient.

     In practice, this is probably more money than you’re willing to lose, and also it’s hard to figure out exactly how much TSLA they have and near impossible to adjust that on a day-to-day basis. Better to just pressure your fund to sell TSLA.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul (nhpaul@sigmoid.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:57:30 JST Paul

     in reply to

     @inthehands I have been wishing there was a way to easily remove Tesla from my investments (mostly index funds), would this effectively do that?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:59:30 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified:

     @adamshostack
     Exactly so.

   • Embed this notice
     Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified: (adamshostack@infosec.exchange)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 02:59:31 JST Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified:

     in reply to

     @inthehands Also: realize that this is a bad investment but may be a good or fun gamble.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:00:22 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • David Andersen

     @dave_andersen
     Go for it if you understand it! For an ignoramus like me, buying and holding the ETF is well worth the cost overhead that entails.

   • Embed this notice
     David Andersen (dave_andersen@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:02:01 JST David Andersen

     in reply to

     @inthehands Yup, that's why those funds are popuar! 🙂

     The major advantage of doing it yourself is you get to choose your upside/downside curve to match your investment hypothesis and risk tolerance, but it's probably true that for most people going for something that doesn't take active attention or understanding options (though these are pretty simple ones) is best.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:03:40 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • aburka 🫣

     @aburka
     TSLS = 1x inverse, moves exactly opposite Tesla

     TSLQ and TSLZ = 2x inverse: if Tesla loses 50% in a day, they gain 100%. And if Tesla •gains• 50% in a day, well, you lose everything AFAICT. These have higher overhead costs, because the people who run them have to juggle more knives. So:

     - These double the impact your money has on Tesla’s share price.
     - If Tesla goes down a •lot•, then you make out like a bandit.
     - But under normal conditions, you lose money on them.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:07:54 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jess👾

     Several replies also mention options trading, such as this from @JessTheUnstill, as a way to manage your bet against Tesla more closely:
     https://infosec.exchange/@JessTheUnstill/114196064404618244

     AFAICT, this is a great thing if you have time and mental energy to devote for this and are a glutton for learning and micromanagement. Like…if you’re the sort of person who regularly tries out new Linux distros just for the hell of it, this might be for you!

     If (like me) you want to go through the setup process once and then let the money do the work for you, the inverse ETFs seem like the way to go.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:13:21 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Greg Sullivan

     @gregwardo
     Yay! Hopefully not more than you’re willing to lose. :)

   • Embed this notice
     Greg Sullivan (gregwardo@c.im)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:13:22 JST Greg Sullivan

     in reply to

     @inthehands I didn’t wait and just used my phone to buy a bunch of TSLZ!

   • Embed this notice
     Greg Sullivan (gregwardo@c.im)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:13:24 JST Greg Sullivan

     in reply to

     @inthehands I am doing this as soon as I am in front of my computer! Thank you!

   • Embed this notice
     Emile Snyder (esnyder@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:18:36 JST Emile Snyder

     • Matthew Lyon

     @mattly @inthehands just for us less sophisticated readers, the reason shorting leads to unbounded risk is that...

     I borrow X shares of stock with an agreement to return them at some specific future time. I then sell them at the current price. Then I wait for the price to go down. When I think it's bottomed out I buy them at the new price. If they only go up, I'm forced to pay an arbitrarily high price to return the shares at the end of the loan period?

     Do I have that right?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:18:36 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Emile Snyder
     • Matthew Lyon

     @esnyder @mattly
     I’ll let Matthew weigh in on the details here, which I don’t know either, but yes that is the correct conclusion: you end up having to buy stock at whatever the price is, no matter how high, even if that puts you in personal debt.

   • Embed this notice
     Jess👾 (jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:30:18 JST Jess👾

     in reply to

     @inthehands Certainly - and I'm not really into any of this sort of speculation stuff. I just toss money into index funds and let it do its thing. My personal opinion is that I'd rather toss spare money at mutual aid to directly help actual people in need than bet against billionaires, but resistance takes all sorts of shapes, and I'm not going to say mine is the only correct way.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:30:18 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jess👾

     @JessTheUnstill
     Well, either/and! I also put a lot more of my money into people and community orgs doing work on the ground than I did into this inverse ETF experiment, but it just felt good to be able to land this one punch directly. And right now I think it’s super important to be landing punches •immediately• and also be building new levels of resilience for the long term. So…yes and!

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:30:52 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • PaulDavisTheFirst

     @PaulDavisTheFirst
     Yes, thank you!

   • Embed this notice
     PaulDavisTheFirst (pauldavisthefirst@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:30:53 JST PaulDavisTheFirst

     in reply to

     • aburka 🫣

     @inthehands @aburka in the first point, do you mean "minus costs" ?

   • Embed this notice
     Shafik Yaghmour (shafik@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:36:26 JST Shafik Yaghmour

     in reply to

     @inthehands Just keep in mind they are not meant to be held long term: https://www.fool.com/terms/i/inverse-etf/

     Which folks may not care about in this case but important to know.

     They may also not be very tax efficient. I don't understand all the details here but worth keeping in mind. Again, folks may not care.

   • Embed this notice
     John Anderson (quizzicus@mastodon.online)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:39:04 JST John Anderson

     in reply to

     • aburka 🫣

     @inthehands @aburka What would happen with these if TSLA were delisted?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:39:04 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • aburka 🫣
     • John Anderson

     @quizzicus @aburka
     I have absolutely no idea.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:40:27 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Shafik Yaghmour

     @shafik
     Yeah, I hear that “not to be held long term” a lot. Per downthread, AFAICT there are only two reasons for this: (1) ETFs have very high overhead, so the stock has to go down a •lot• for them to pay off, and (2) who expects a stock to keep going down long term??

     But, again AFAICT, if you are willing to bet on steep long-term decline, then there’s nothing wrong with holding them long term. It’s usually a losing bet, but it’s not illegal or something.

   • Embed this notice
     Shafik Yaghmour (shafik@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 03:45:54 JST Shafik Yaghmour

     in reply to

     @inthehands I would prefer giving folks more details and then at least there is full disclosure.

     I don't think you did it purposely but I felt like you glanced over some details that were worth pointing out.

     Especially the tax side of things b/c that may not become apparent till next year and it could be an unpleasant surprise for some folks who have not traded much.

     Again, it all depends on your goals, so it may not matter to many folks.

   • Embed this notice
     Hasani Hunter (hasani@my-spaces.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:17:08 JST Hasani Hunter

     in reply to

     @inthehands the one thing that gives me pause is the amount of mutual funds and 401ks (not to mention pension funds) that have massive exposure to TSLA. When the TSLA bubble pops, the sound will be deafening

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:18:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Hasani Hunter

     @hasani
     I see hopeful signs that some of the biggies are quietly letting the air out of the balloon slowly, but…I fear you’re right.

     Then again, what happens to retirement funds if the country falls the rest of the way into authoritarianism, well.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:36:11 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Eric Beckman
     • Hasani Hunter

     @ERBeckman @hasani
     …and 52-week low is still something like 8-10x what the price should be on company fundamentals, leaving aside the brand going internationally toxic.

   • Embed this notice
     Eric Beckman (erbeckman@historians.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:36:13 JST Eric Beckman

     in reply to

     • Hasani Hunter

     @inthehands @hasani Yeah, and $tsla is still well above it's 52 week low and JP Morgan target price.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:38:06 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • bubbajet

     @bubbajet
     Accurate, probably

   • Embed this notice
     bubbajet (bubbajet@mastodon.world)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:38:07 JST bubbajet

     in reply to

     @inthehands This seems like it’ll be just as effective as donating to the DNC, but it’ll feel better and you won’t get spam texts forever. I like it.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:43:38 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • xinit ☕
     • aburka 🫣

     @xinit @aburka
     I mean, I’m not sure how my thread could could make it any clearer that you should not expect to see that money again if you buy and hold.

   • Embed this notice
     xinit ☕ (xinit@mastodon.coffee)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:43:39 JST xinit ☕

     in reply to

     • aburka 🫣

     @inthehands "- But under normal conditions, you lose money on them."

     This part's very important. Most docs I have seen on inverse ETP/ETF/ETN say that this is something that you buy *for a day* as a short term bet, otherwise you get into something about "compounding risk"

     So, holding long term might work to push the stock down, but you will tend to lose money if you're not in and out relatively quick.

     Definitely something to buy the morning TSLA announces earnings, I think.

     @aburka

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:49:29 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jess👾

     @JessTheUnstill
     And also just because it’s important and worth mentioning!

   • Embed this notice
     Jess👾 (jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 05:49:30 JST Jess👾

     in reply to

     @inthehands Yeah, mostly just mentioned it as I don't have any experience in protest investing.

   • Embed this notice
     Michael Busch (michael_w_busch@mastodon.online)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 06:23:59 JST Michael Busch

     in reply to

     • Hasani Hunter

     @hasani @inthehands

     The managers of my retirement fund have sent around notices lately about how they are acting to reduce the risk to everyone's money during the current crisis.

     Including specific discussions of Nvidia and Tesla.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 06:23:59 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Michael Busch
     • Hasani Hunter

     @michael_w_busch @hasani

     👀👀 And what did they say? Anything intelligible?

   • Embed this notice
     0x575446, Fifth Columnist (0x575446@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 06:24:22 JST 0x575446, Fifth Columnist

     in reply to

     @inthehands Just tossed the $28 I still had kicking around from the "free starter stock" at Robinhood at this. Thanks for the heads up.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 06:24:22 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • 0x575446, Fifth Columnist

     @0x575446
     Perfect.

   • Embed this notice
     Michael Busch (michael_w_busch@mastodon.online)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 06:32:28 JST Michael Busch

     in reply to

     • Hasani Hunter

     @inthehands @hasani

     Paraphrasing:

     "No, we will not try to short these stocks. That would be irresponsible."

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 06:32:28 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Michael Busch
     • Hasani Hunter

     @michael_w_busch @hasani

     Fair, and surely correct on their part! But have they sold? Will they?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 09:35:19 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • sabik

     @sabik
     Tesla shares account for some absurdly large portion of his wealth — I forget the exact percentage, but it’s large, like almost half-ish? — to the point where he might not be able to handle the amount of debt he’s carrying.

   • Embed this notice
     sabik (sabik@rants.au)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 09:35:20 JST sabik

     in reply to

     @inthehands
     Except Musk seems to be trying to get money out of Tesla in the form of CEO compensation, not shares?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 09:50:23 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     After this thread, I just feel like I should say:

     - Please don’t go overboard. This is direct action, and symbolic, and a moonshot — not a Sensible Investment.

     - Please do not become a day trader because of me. It’s a fool’s game. If you’re fortunate enough to have some retirement money, put it in mutual funds. If you have money to invest, get an investment advisor. Please don’t let a brokerage account you created to punch Musk become a gateway drug for you to lose your money gambling on stocks! I’d feel very bad.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 21-Mar-2025 09:52:09 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     - It’s nice to be able to do something with money if you have money, but please don’t let it start there. We all need to get in the habit of taking action, •showing up• for things early and often. Finding a #TeslaTakedown event near you is a great place to start: https://www.teslatakedown.com It’s fun!

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 00:01:45 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • John Breen

     @jab01701mid
     OK…as long as it is responsible! I think there will be a temptation to just keep trickling more and more money into this, past the point of acceptable loss. As long as we are all clear about where our personal limit is….

   • Embed this notice
     John Breen (jab01701mid@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 00:01:46 JST John Breen

     in reply to

     @inthehands Responsibly, I decided to add just $100.00 more of TSLZ and TSLQ to my portfolio, just to keep the scent of impending brand-death fresh...

   • Embed this notice
     Ben Cohen (airspeedswift@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 00:51:28 JST Ben Cohen

     in reply to

     @inthehands Beware. These funds are not designed for buy and hold. They are short-term instruments only. When the underlier goes up, they go down by _more_ due to the way they are implemented, due to the cost of downside protection.

     This means unless a stock plunges suddenly after you buy, you generally lose money over time. Mostly stocks descend via ups and downs each day, and when the ups cost you, that compounds to a net loss over time.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 00:51:28 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ben Cohen

     @airspeedswift
     Yeah, I don’t really know how my thread could make it any clearer that this is not an investment strategy, and you should expect to lose the money you put in if you hold.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 01:15:17 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Ben Cohen

     @airspeedswift
     I mean, fair

   • Embed this notice
     Ben Cohen (airspeedswift@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 01:15:18 JST Ben Cohen

     in reply to

     @inthehands I mean, you may as well just mail the check to Citadel instead.

   • Embed this notice
     John Breen (jab01701mid@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 08:12:43 JST John Breen

     in reply to

     @inthehands Did not realize Rupert Murdoch is on the Tesla board, just exercised and sold $13M worth of options a few days ago.

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Mary Austin VOTED 4 HARRIS! (maryaustinbooks@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 08:19:44 JST Mary Austin VOTED 4 HARRIS!

     in reply to

     • John Breen

     @jab01701mid @inthehands
     James Murdoch, Rupert's relatively left leaning and hence estranged son

   • Embed this notice
     Dave Fenichel (nek@hear-me.social)'s status on Sunday, 23-Mar-2025 03:13:19 JST Dave Fenichel

     in reply to

     @inthehands
     "a sell candidate"
     https://www.fool.com/investing/2025/03/22/tesla-buy-sell-or-hold/

     Right now, people with a lot of capital and market power seem to be working very hard with microtrades no doubt, to keep the inflated valuation artificially stable at $249

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 23-Mar-2025 03:14:41 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Dave Fenichel

     @nek
     See also:

     https://stocks.apple.com/AvUqFbvQEQu6-RAa1n7cHhw

   • Embed this notice
     Dave Fenichel (nek@hear-me.social)'s status on Sunday, 23-Mar-2025 03:26:29 JST Dave Fenichel

     in reply to

     @inthehands
     It should give a lot more people pause and lower their confidence in a free/fair market, to see the latest apparent propping-up. After all the volatility why is the value holding so ridiculously steady at the inflated $249 price today? It couldn't have anything to do with Musk's powerful new possession of every citizen's private financial records. Good thing conspiracy nuts are rare.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 23-Mar-2025 03:26:29 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Dave Fenichel

     @nek
     I think it’s pretty hard to untangle causality here. There are a •lot• of wildly different reasons people could be propping up the stock: still truly believe in Musk as genius, belief that Trump admin graft will juice profits, various kinds of market manipulation by Musk’s own circle, optimism about Tesla’s cryptocurrency entanglements, the •real• money buying control of Musk, etc etc.

     Almost impossible to tease out which of those things are and aren’t really happening. But as you say, •none• of them offer much confidence in the way the world works.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 05-Apr-2025 07:06:39 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Dave Fenichel

     @nek
     Sorry not sorry

   • Embed this notice
     Dave Fenichel (nek@hear-me.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Apr-2025 07:06:40 JST Dave Fenichel

     in reply to

     @inthehands Hey I thought you said I was going to *lose* money!!

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 11-May-2025 08:42:20 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Gabriel Pettier

     @tshirtman
     The market can stay irrational a lot longer than you can stay solvent, as the old saying goes

   • Embed this notice
     Gabriel Pettier (tshirtman@mas.to)'s status on Sunday, 11-May-2025 08:42:21 JST Gabriel Pettier

     in reply to

     @inthehands Well, i’m glad i only took 1 TSLS share, and that you said it was not a sensible investment 😆 I’ll keep holding to see how it goes, but since that by order, it’s down about 40% 😬