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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:08:05 JST 
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
The core technology still works in a decentralised manner, just like it always did. They realised they couldn't ban it so they coopted the end-points and hoped it would be enough.
Getting black pilled just because the government gained control of some websites you don't actually need to use is silly.-
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:08:05 JST 
?? Humpleupagus ??
I believe that bitcoin was created by glowniggers to test cryptocurrency before it was adopted by governments. I mean... how else would a government test such a technology? It's really not the type of thing you fuck with in a lab and then deploy. You can't risk the digitization of a central currency on anything but real world deployment. -
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Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad: (floydian_psychology@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:11:19 JST 
Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad:
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sun no, its more like bitcoin is the only notable libertarian achievement -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:11:19 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
That's that they wanted everyone to believe. They'll just crush it like every other competing currency and install their own. The libertarians have been played. Ironically, they helped the bankniggers test and grab what will be orwellian powers. -
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Mancow Muller ? (cowanon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:11:38 JST 
Mancow Muller ?
Central Bank Digital Currency IS one of their biggest stated goals. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:12:35 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Yup. And per usual, they used their enemies to gain the power.
> this is the libertarian future.
Lmfao -
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Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad: (floydian_psychology@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:16:27 JST
Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad:
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sun so long as people act like cattle nothing will go anywhere, most people use crypto for gambling instead of as a currency to get away from jews that want to debank people for speech -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:16:27 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
It was never a real currency. It is always tagged to dollars.
> 1 bit coin is worth... $
And the bitcoin price of things bought with it fluctuate based on that.
That's not a real currency. While the cost of goods may fluctuate, they don't due to the value of the currency being pegged pegged to anything but the goods and the intracurrency cost of the production, marketing, transportation, and risk / profit. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:18:20 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Why would they need crypto? It achieves nothing they want that isn't already accomplished by existing digital currency systems and several of it's inherent features are major headaches for governments.
The only advantages crypto holds are for groups who want to bypass the banking system that supports their entire regime. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:18:20 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Just wait until you need credentials to access the internet and every transaction is traceable, then we'll talk. I'll give it twenty years. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:20:44 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
That makes no sense.
If they wanted an orwellian digital currency they could do it better with existing technology.
There is no point for a regime dependent on centralisation to create a decentralised system. It's very nature makes it very difficult to crush or replace. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:21:21 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
We already have a decentralized system. There's a convergence of agreement about ownership of federal notes and treasuries. It's so natural, you don't even think about it.
A decentralized system would allow for further checks and create transfer efficiencies. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:22:29 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Just be sure to acquire your government certificate so you can log on in 2045. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:22:30 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
None of that requires crypto to implement. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:28:20 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
It's not controlled top down though. The federal reserve was created by reason of a negotiation between private banks and the federal government. The private banks "reserve banks" have an interest in the fed. So it's hardly centralized.
That there's fewer players doesn't mean it's not decentralized. The banks are spread across the country, and their interests differ. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:28:21 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
I don't see how a system controlled from the top down by a single organisation could possibly be considered decentralised, but ok. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:30:42 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I think the problem is that you've been trick by language like "decentralization." -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:42:08 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
What's an organization? Is business? A group of business that commonly trade? A city? A state? My household?
The theory of the firm, i.e. what qualifies as an organization, is one that has been debated for millenia, and the French and the Germans had historically disagreed greatly on this point — folk or trading partners?
The fact is that what you really mean by decentralized is that a different order has power, however it may be comprised.
A long time ago, people traded in "decentralized" ways. They used bank notes, sometime discounting them depending on circumstances or ripping them in pieces to divide their value, or in beads, or furs, or metals.
Nearly every world government ended that. Thus, "decentralization" may be new to you, but governments crushing "currencies" is a tale as old as time.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 15:42:09 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
I think the problem is that you don't know what decentralisation means. If a single organisation controls something then it's not decentralised. You might as well say microsoft is decentralised because it has lots of shareholders. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:00:36 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> What's an organization? Is business? A group of business that commonly trade? A city? A state? My household?
All of the above.
> The theory of the firm, i.e. what qualifies as an organization, is one that has been debated for millenia, and the French and the Germans had historically disagreed greatly on this point — folk or trading partners?
The theory of the firm is primarily concerned with why centralisation happens, not with what semantic definition to apply to firms.
> The fact is that what you really mean by decentralized is that a different order has power, however it may be comprised.
No. Bitcoin is decentralised in that no single organisation controls it. Not even the bitcoin foundation. Any change to the system requires a high degree of consensus from it's users.
> A long time ago, people traded in "decentralized" ways. They used bank notes, sometime discounting them depending on circumstances or ripping them in pieces to divide their value, or in beads, or furs, or metals.
Bank notes are not decentralised. Beads, furs and metals are.
> Nearly every world government ended that. Thus, "decentralization" may be new to you, but governments crushing "currencies" is a tale as old as time.
They didn't end it though. People still trade in commodities all the time. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:00:36 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> No. Bitcoin is decentralised in that no single organisation controls it. Not even the bitcoin foundation. Any change to the system requires a high degree of consensus from it's users.
Then the fed is decentralized because no single organization owns it. Again, it is at base a amalgamation of separate private banks. That you're an outsider and suffer their convergence, doesn't mean it's centralized. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:01:28 JST 
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @Floydian_Psychology @sun I’m not much of an economist, but it seems to me like the problem stems primarily from centralizing the *authority* to create/issue wealth. I guess I just don’t understand what difference it makes whether or not a given cryptocurrency is “decentralized”, until said authority is in the hands of those cryptoholders. At present, until the current-ruling central bank decides otherwise, any given cryptocurrency is just another commodity. I can conceive of the possibility that a given cryptocurrency may some give its owners the ability to wrest such authority from the central bank, but I suspect it’s unlikely they’re just going to sit back and let that happen. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:02:32 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
If it wasn't for the tax barter rule or that taxes have to be paid with currency, not in kind, the dollar would behave far more like a commodity too. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:09:36 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
So there's no authority verifying your ownership of crypto? 🤔 -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:09:37 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Central banks don't create or distribute wealth, they distribute tokens that wealth-creators (ie. workers and property owners) are willing to trade for wealth. That willingness is largely based on tradition and convenience, not authority.
If authority were required to give tokens value then no crypto would ever have gotten off the ground.
You are correct that as crypto has acquired more value that central bankers have tried to crush it in various ways, so far nothing has worked though. And it's unlikely anything will. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:14:15 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
The convergence of personal beliefs that it is a currency used in trade and a bearer instrument, i.e. that the person who holds it is the owner and has the authority to transfer it. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:14:16 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
What authority confirms my ownership of the $50 in my wallet?
Anyhow I was talking about value and wealth, not ownership. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:15:48 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @Floydian_Psychology @sun > Central banks don't create or distribute wealth, they distribute tokens that wealth-creators (ie. workers and property owners) are willing to trade for wealth.
Okay, fair enough; but the point stands that the central bank retains the authority it has, entirely independently of such considerations. As far as I can tell anyway. If one is necessarily obliged to use their tokens by force of law, there’s not much practical difference.
Sure, I can theoretically conceive of a number of things happening that remove them from this illustrious position of authority. I can even also see value in hedging against such contingencies. But it would actually have to happen, first, if we really want to do something different.?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:18:01 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Exactly. As long as the regime wants to control currency, it will, and so I am highly suspect of any claims that bitcoin is anything other than a government invention. That it has been allowed to exist as a means of trade is highly suspect and has been from the jump. The fact that it's origination is really unknown and myth or rumor at best only further causes my brow to raise. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:37:03 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Not really. It leaves a trail. The only problems with tracing is jurisdictional. If they can tie you to a particular "wallet" on their currency and by law, it's over. You won't ve able to buy or sell without leaving a clear, easily searchable trail, unless you trade in kind.
If the ID is required for access to the internet, they'll know if you traded other crypto-currencies.
The libertarian game then shifts to stealing or spoofing identity. Gurps cyberpunk is the real future. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:37:04 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> I am highly suspect of any claims that bitcoin is anything other than a government invention. That it has been allowed to exist as a means of trade is highly suspect and has been from the jump.
It continues to exist and be used in trade because they can't stop it. They've tried ignoring it, they've tries smearing it and they've tried soft-banning it, none of it worked.
Now they're trying to coopt it because that's all they have left.
> The fact that it's origination is really unknown and myth or rumor at best only further causes my brow to raise.
You don't need to know it's origin to know it wasn't part of some 5D central bank chess move. All you have to do is look at how it works and realise it's inherently corrosive to their authority. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:38:41 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Someone has to be the devil's advocate. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:38:42 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @Floydian_Psychology @sun Well tbh I wouldn’t complain a bit, if this is the case. I‘d even go so far as to say I hope it “works”.
And I do appreciate Humpleupagus’ reasoned suspicion, because I‘m not in much position to affirm or deny the possibility. While it *kind of* strikes me as something “spiraling out of their control”, that could also be a metaaware feint-within-a-feint. Totally possible. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:39:52 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
I'd be willing to consider the possibility of crypto being some kind of clever switcheroo if someone could explain to me how it helps them.
So far the only explanation I've ever seen is that it's to soften people up for digital cash, but they were already doing that with credit cards, and it's already working. They don't need crypto for that.
Crypto only has disadvantages for them. It's highly resistant to their usual methods of control like courts and unbanking. I don't get why they'd give us such a useful weapon. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:39:52 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
It's helps them by allowing them to test such systems in the real world. It's really that simple. They watch and look for bugs. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:45:55 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> What ID
> Sir... here's your government issued license to use the internet. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:45:56 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> Not really. It leaves a trail. The only problems with tracing is jurisdictional. If they can tie you to a particular "wallet" on their currency and by law, it's over. You won't ve able to buy or sell without leaving a clear, easily searchable trail, unless you trade in kind.
1. That applies to some crypto but not all.
2. Even then it assumes you need to trade for fiat on a digital banking system in order to buy what you want. It doesn't account for people trading directly for what they want to buy or trading for physical cash.
> If the ID is required for access to the internet, they'll know if you traded other crypto-currencies.
What ID?
> The libertarian game then shifts to stealing or spoofing identity. Gurps cyberpunk is the real future.
Or creating alternate networks. Meshnets have already started popping up in chaotic areas. Won't be long before they start hitting most western cities. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:47:04 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Credit cards lack the security they require. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 16:47:05 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Like I said, they were already running those systems for real with credit cards. They've been doing it since the 60s or so.
Why do they need to run another test using a system designed to spiral beyond their control and go into competition with them? -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:00:45 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Just use checks. The OG decentralized currency. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:00:46 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You think there's a meaningful distinction between banks, governments and credit card companies? -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:00:47 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Again, credit cards. They already have that. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:00:47 JST 
Vasquez
The government does not. They would have to ask the credit card company or the bank for that. Not saying they wouldn't give it up if asked just saying that's out of the way with crypto/digital currency. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:00:48 JST
Vasquez
Direct real time monitoring of all transactions -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:05:11 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
When in Rome. 🤷♂️ -
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Peter (mcmlxviiotg@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:05:12 JST 
Peter
>Someone has to be the devil's advocate. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:05:46 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
More traceable than cash. They're getting rid of both though. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:05:46 JST
Vasquez
I mean checks are just credit cards without the immediate verification of funds. The getting rid of cash is a much bigger issue and can only hurt the little guy ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:07:22 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Not that traceable actually.
A check is merely a promise to pay that is to be honored by a third party.
I could write a check to your order that is to be drawn on my neighbor.
So checks are actually fully decentralized. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:10:20 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Not really. We have a currency. We call it checks. Anyone can create one, and anyone can pay it. Reliability was never a factor in your theory of decentralization. Just whether there's a central authority was the only issue up until now. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:10:21 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
That's an example of unreliability, not decentralisation. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:11:40 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I'm not fighting. I'm too old. -
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Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:11:41 JST 
Deplorable Degenerate
Mom, dad, please stop fighting. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:13:58 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Explain why reliability is a necessary element of decentralization.. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:13:59 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You gave an example of how checks are unreliable, not decentralised. As a system it's based on the trust that not everyone will create them, or if they do they'll be punished. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:15:48 JST
Vasquez
He's trying to say that checks are good for check fraud -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:15:48 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
They can be created for any purpose and people can trade solely on the face value of the check without actually presenting them to the payee bank.
Notes are very similar, only there's no third party drawee. People used to trade in notes prior to the Civil War and still do. The dollar is a type of note. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:26:24 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Bank notes were not backed my commodities. It's called an unsecured note. They were backed by nothing more than the drawees standing.
Anyone could theoretically be a drawee.
And now you're bringing in all sorts of requirements that don't bear upon your theory of decentralization. Trust is not a factor.
Again explain how trust / reliability is a necessary element of dectralization. I'm not seeing it. It just seems like a another element you're adding and to the wrong box.
Besides, you trust the software to perform the "trustless" transaction. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:26:25 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> They can be created for any purpose and people can trade solely on the face value of the check without actually presenting them to the payee bank.
The system is still dependent on a centralised trusted authority (the bank) verifying transactions. Deferring that verification doesn't mean it's no longer required. And in practice no one (other than maybe loan sharks) actually does so.
Crypto is trustless. No central authority is required to verify anything.
> Notes are very similar, only there's no third party drawee. People used to trade in notes prior to the Civil War and still do. The dollar is a type of note.
No. Notes in the original sense were backed by a commodity. The dollar has not had such backing since Reagan. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:32:08 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> Reliability has nothing to do with centralisation. Hence why I rejected your example of unreliability as proof of decentralisation.
I did not offer unreliability as evidence of decentralization. I provided an example of a decentralized instrument and you called it unreliable.
Cut the pilpul -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:32:10 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> Bank notes were not backed my commodities. It's called an unsecured note. They were backed by nothing more than the drawees standing.
Depends what kind of note we're talking about. The original "bank notes" were bearer bonds made out for a certain amount of metal currency and issued by the bank. Although people also "gave their note" as in writing an IOU.
> And now you're bringing in all sorts of requirements that don't bear upon your theory of decentralization. Trust is not a factor.
A central trusted authority is.
> Again explain how trust / reliability is a necessary element of dectralization. I'm not seeing it. It just seems like a another element you're adding and to the wrong box.
I've already answered this twice. Reliability has nothing to do with centralisation. Hence why I rejected your example of unreliability as proof of decentralisation.
I'm not answering this a fourth time, you can take it or leave it.
> Besides, you trust the software to perform the "trustless" transaction.
That doesn't require trust. I can audit the software and/or write my own. I can't create my own bank branch or demand access to their computer systems. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:34:35 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
No, I explained how a check works. That's not unreliability. That's literally what a check, aka a draft, is. I no where said it was unreliable. You said that.
Again, cut the pilpul. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:34:36 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
No. You claimed it was decentralised then gave an example of it being unreliable as proof. Unreliability is not decentralisation, so I rejected your claim.
Cheques are not decentralised. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:36:55 JST
Vasquez
The idea that my cash is in the bank and I can remove my cash from the bank. Ceypto exists as electrons or bits on a drive I can't put into my pocket. I would argue crypto is very centralised as it relies on server infrastructure and whoever own 51% of that infrastructure. We should probably specify what crypto we are talking about because bitcoin isn't even private in the way that cash is. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:36:56 JST
Vasquez
> They were already doing this. That is what digital banking is.
True but digital banking is at least based on the idea of cash. A crypto system would just do away with that notion entirely. Libertarian types get real hyped about crypto but to me it just sounds like an acceleration into "15 minute city" hell world. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:36:56 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
What is "the idea of cash" and why is it important?
I would argue crypo behaves more like cash than digital fiat does. -
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Vasquez (sulaco@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:36:57 JST
Vasquez
I just addressed that relationship but yes there is a fundamental difference between a bank and government. Again, I didn't say they wouldn't cooperate if asked for the information but the government must at least ask them.
The bigger issue I would see with crypto is getting people used to it in the mainstream. I can foresee a future where USDCoin is developed by the GOV and legacy currency is deprecated. Then the gov directly has monitoring capabilities and can ban your wallet on a whim in an instant. Again, I understand that the gov can seize your bank account but they at the very least have to approach a non government entity and make the request first. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:36:57 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
In theory there's a separation of power between them, but in practice it's irrelevant because the people who own the banks also own the governmnet.
> I can foresee a future where USDCoin is developed by the GOV and legacy currency is deprecated.
They were already doing this. That is what digital banking is.
> Again, I understand that the gov can seize your bank account but they at the very least have to approach a non government entity and make the request first.
They're not independent and haven't been since at least the early 1900s. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:37:28 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Just bury your usb drive, so the law can't find it. 😏 -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:42:25 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Further, check don't have to be "cashed." You could trade purely in checks once created. They are "negotiable." So reliability isn't necessarily an issue. Nothing requires drawing on them. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:46:39 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
It's not dependent on any centralized authority. Anyone can make them and anyone can accept them. They're negotiable. If I give you .15 bit coin you have .15 bitcoin. If I gave you a check for .15 dollars you have a check for
.15 dollars. Both are trustless as you say.
The only difference is that you want to think of check as having to be converted into cash and therefore unreliable. That's a psychological issue, not a check issue. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:46:40 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You said it was decentralised, then showed it behaving unreliably. I said "no, that's unreliable, not decantralised." I then went on to show how it's still dependent on a centralised authority.
Again, unreliable =/= decentralised -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:48:57 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
So how do you verify a bitcoin transaction? It's just fucking magic without any central agreement about how transactions are settled? -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:48:58 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You could trade purely in anything. I could write you a note saying "IOU 1000 kg of rocks from jupiter" and you could trade in it. But I suspect no one would value your note particularly highly.
Cheques derive their value from people using a central authority to verify their value and redeem them.
Or in rare cases as souvenirs, but that's probably not what you were talking about. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:58:32 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> It's not dependent on any centralized authority.
Say you gave me your fee for representing me in court and I tried to write you a cheque made out to "the bank of imaginationland." How highly would you value that cheque? Probably not very since there's no centralised authority to cash the cheque with.
Cheques from bank of america have value because BoA are a centralised authority and so is the american court system which will intervene if I try to write bum cheques.
> Anyone can make them
That's unreliable, not decentralised.
> and anyone can accept them
Anyone can accept anything. A feature that applies to anything is not a real feature.
> They're negotiable. If I give you .15 bit coin you have .15 bitcoin. If I gave you a check for .15 dollars you have a check for .15 dollars. Both are trustless as you say.
No. I'm trusting you that you actually have $0.15 in your bank account and I'm trusting the justice system that it'll make you pay me the $0.15 somehow even if you don't.
By contrast if you give me .15 bitcoin then that's it. If the transaction goes through then it's mine and you can't take it back.
> The only difference is that you want to think of check as having to be converted into cash and therefore unreliable. That's a psychological issue, not a check issue.
The difference is that I'm depending on the bank/courts to enforce the transaction. And they are centralised trusted authorities. If they behave in an untrustworthy fashion then I get nothing. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:58:32 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I don't think you understand what dectralization is, and that's the problem.
You keep saying x isn't, but can't tell me what is.
If you think the checking system isn't dectralized, I suggest you study settlement procedures. They happen every night, and the banks have to come to agreements (convergence) regarding the settlements of their accounts as between other participating banks.
I don't see how court process has any bearing. I can also sue someone over bitcoin. Nothing is immune to legal process. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:59:35 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Miners rush to verify that it's part of a valid chain and include it in the next block. Once one of them does so it's in their self interest to start building a new block on top of that one.
If one of them starts screwing around and produces a bad block the rest of the network will reject it since they can only possibly lose valuable computing resources by pursuing that fork (with very few exceptions).
Consensus is achieved by large numbers of people acting in their own self interest. There is no requirement to have one guy running it all and just hoping he doesn't decide to screw me. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 17:59:35 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Banks do the same with settlement procedure, but keep deceiving yourself about what dectralization is. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:01:15 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
In fact, based on your description, bankers invented bitcoin. Only they would understand settlement at that level. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:03:17 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
You've convinced me that bankers invented bitcoin based on your description about how settlement occurs. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:03:18 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Banking does not operate as a blockchain, sorry 🤷 -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:05:11 JST 
LordOfTheKangs
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun The US states are supposed to settle all transactions in gold or silver. No constitutional ammendment superseded that requirement. Here you all are discussing blockchain validity instead of the fiat currency issue ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:05:49 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
That's the states though. Private entities aren't so bound. Banks can create currency, and did until it was taxed out of existence. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:08:20 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
So someone invents a system that settles transactions in the same way banks do as a general matter (banks don't settle one transaction at time, they're done in "blocks"), but some unknown guy in his basement with no banking background created a digital version of such procedure and its totally not the bankers.
Yeah. Ok. I know it's hard to admit you're living a lie. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:08:21 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
They're not the same thing, but if you've convinced yourself they are then ok, have fun with that. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:09:45 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> in the network definition we trust -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:09:46 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
That's the problem though.
Ultimately the dollar system was based on trusting the US government to respect the constitution and continue using a bitmetallic standard.
Eventually someone realised there were no consequences for violating that trust and they went fiat.
With crypto there is no requirement for trust, the rules are baked into the network definition everyone's using. The only way to change it is to get all the users to agree to change. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:10:41 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I didn't say that. But grab the low hanging fruit when you have no argument against the big picture.
Some glowniggers with deep banking knowledge created bitcoin. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:10:42 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
A blockchain is not defined solely by transactions being verified in batches. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:10:54 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun And you can trust crypto.. Until you realize investment banks are the largest holders of bitcoin in the world. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:12:11 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Yes. More specifically everyone benefitting from sticking to it.
So far it's worked pretty well. By contrast "in god we trust" has worked out terribly. Turns out god isn't really bothered to enforce the US constitution on the federal reserve. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:12:11 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
The dollar has been relatively strong for since WW2. It's the reserve currency. Even crypto is valued in it. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:14:06 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
And you trust that bitcoin isn't made by glowniggers and is a libertarian dream. 🤷♂️ -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:14:07 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
The dollar is the reserve currency because:
1. The US government has been historically trusted not to inflate it too hard
2. They've been trusted to either crush or embargo anyone breaking their monopoly
Right now both are looking shaky. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:14:25 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
And?
Edit: Also, pretty sure they aren't. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:14:25 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun And you realize the bimetallic standard was usurped by investment bankers controlling the majority of all gold and silver in the world 120 years ago ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:14:36 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Well yeah, that too ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:16:55 JST 
Mister_Sunshine
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun >bankers invented bitcoin
If the Powers That Be did not invent Bitcoin, they are laughing until they piss their pants that someone did it for them. Since their dream is a Digital Currency where every penny is tracked, it means that some other payment method of maintaining the Status Quo of Crime and Corruption to continue. That's what Bitcoin (Crypto et al) is.
The description I read above of how Bitcoin transactions are settled is not accurate, by the way. The actual ledger that comprises Bitcoin could be run on a Raspberry Pi, no problem. The obscene computing power of miners is simply applied to solving a random mathematical puzzle to determine who will get the award for doing the trivial task of adding transactions to the ledger.?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:22:53 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> Do you appreciate what happened to gold in America in 1933?
When they seized it from everyone's bank accounts you mean?
> Bitcoin isn't the safe haven you think it is
Not if you keep it on an exchange. They have no mechanism to seize it from my wallet though. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:22:53 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> Turn over all of your electronic devices by order of the government
> No -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:22:54 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Do you appreciate what happened to gold in America in 1933? The re evaluation shortly after that?
Do you understand Spain and Romania both lost their gold reserves less than a decade later? Bretton Woods passed a few years after that?
Bitcoin isn't the safe haven you think it is -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:22:55 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
They replaced the bitmetallic standard precisely because they didn't control it. No matter what they did they couldn't print extra gold, no matter how much they owned. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:24:20 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Also... Plainview doctrine. People will turn in their crypto to avoid having the government search their devices in order to avoid getting pegged with other crimes. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:24:27 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Regulators know every transaction on the block chain and have spent a lot of effort to know every wallet holder in existence.
If Russia got kicked off the swift payment system over a weekend how long do you think it's gonna take the global financial system to freeze every crypto wallet on the planet??? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:29:59 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
The plainview doctrine is one of the scariest doctrine created given modern technology.
If the police execute an arrest warrant at your house, they can only look on places large enough for a person to hide. So if they looked in your desk drawer and found a kilo of blow, they can cease it, but they can't arrest you for it. They also can't look on your computer.
But if they have a search warrant and are looking for information that can be located on microSD or ssd, they could look anywhere in your house and through all of your computers. -
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Nate Higgers, Acting CEO of Google :rh_1::rh_4::rh_8::rh_8: :sonnenrad: :antiverified: (nathanielhigger1488@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:30:00 JST 
Nate Higgers, Acting CEO of Google :rh_1::rh_4::rh_8::rh_8: :sonnenrad: :antiverified:
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @LordOfTheKangs @sun The only Plainview doctrine I'm familiar with is where you buy all of the land around the one retard holding out and extract all of the oil, thus drinking their milkshake -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:33:49 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
https://fedsoc.org/commentary/fedsoc-blog/scotus-asked-if-5th-amendment-bars-compelling-defendants-to-unlock-electronic-devices -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:33:50 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Lol. We're trying to explain it. You cant just bury your usb in the desert for 25 years -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:33:50 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
All I have to do to protect my crypto is memorise 12 words. That's it.
According to you, in order for them to shut down crypto they have to confiscate everyone's computers across the entire nation.
Like I said, if they thought they could actually get away with doing it they would have already done it with guns. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:33:51 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Yeah... good luck with that.
If they could actually achieve that then they'd have confiscated everyone's guns long ago. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:37:43 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Depending on the facts and jurisdiction, you could be held indefinitely if you don't at least unlock the device where a password is required (if they can prove its a password).
I'm not expert on this matter, but it seems requiring a second device to unlock or access data would be far safer. They'd have to prove it exists and you know where it is. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:37:44 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
And? -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:38:14 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Again, they don't have the power required to enforce that on a global scale.
Domestic miners would shut down since mining the zogfork would be unprofitable. Foreign miners wouldn't comply. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:38:14 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @NathanielHigger1488 @sun How many countries stopped transactions with Russia after a non binding order came down to lock them out of the SWIFT system? Do you think any country outside of north Korea is gonna comply with a bitcoin freeze / that north Korea wouldn't comply just to be a nigger to the system? ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:38:15 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
No I don't. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:38:15 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @NathanielHigger1488 @sun Forks in a government mandated direction that doesn't include your wallet... if you dont register in the next 180 days -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:38:16 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@NathanielHigger1488 @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun He's got to validate his holdings on the block chain every few months. Can't hide your hash if you have to prove it's still yours -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:39:57 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
But the latter makes it no different than requiring you to testify about the location of a murder weapon or a body. It just seems like a better position. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:40:52 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You're retreating into case law while avoiding the point.
They don't have the manpower to do this to everyone. And even if they did it to one or another person it wouldn't necessarily get them what they want.
I can store private keys in my head and they can never prove that they're there, let alone force me to divulge them. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:40:52 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
The law never does anything to "everyone." They crucify a few so most of the rest get in line. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:46:17 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Copyright is largely privately enforced, and it doesn't affect the federal reserve or banks. Neither does guns. Bit try kiting a check and see how quickly you get tossed in the clink. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:46:18 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
How'd that work out for copyright infringement? Or guns?
It works sometimes for some things people either are powerless to stop or don't really care about.
They've made plenty of examples when it comes to crypto but it doesn't seem to have stopped anyone. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:03 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I prefer fat gemini. It has ssl. -
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Frank (frank@decayable.ink)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:04 JST 
Frank
Guys, guys. Can we all agree to fat gopher?
-
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:05 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun >The process of adding to the ledger is an inherent part of the mathematical puzzle.
NO. It isn't. It literally says that it is not in the grok answer. Since it appears that you have a severe reading/comprehension issue. I highlighted the important part where it says you are completely WRONG about the ledger being part of the puzzle that miners spend gorillions of gigawatts solving. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:05 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> It literally says that it is not in the grok answer.
Nope
> where it says you are completely WRONG about the ledger being part of the puzzle
That's not what I said. That is a strawman you made up.
What I said is that verifying the transactions is part of the puzzle. -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:06 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun It's grok, and it says that the Bitcoin ledger and tasks the miners perform are NOT the same thing, which you claim to be the case. All you are proving thus far is that you do not know how Bitcoin works and that your reading comprehension level is sub nigger tier. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:06 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
It said the ledger is separate from the task (which it is).
The process of adding to the ledger is an inherent part of the mathematical puzzle.
I'm beginning to get the impression you don't know what you're talking about. -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:07 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Sigh. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:07 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
It's nice to see I agree with chatGPT.
Strawman still rejected btw. -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:08 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun >If no one else were doing it on more powerful hardware then yes.
>It's about doing it faster than anyone else. Adding transaction to the ledger is the random mathematical puzzle. They're not separate.
This right here tells me that you do not understand how Bitcoin works. You are conflating the actual ledger(record of all transaction) and the random mathematical puzzle that miners solve to get the prize for maintaining the ledger by adding the latest batch of transactions to it. They are NOT the same thing. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:08 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
No. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:47:09 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> Since their dream is a Digital Currency where every penny is tracked
Scroll up. They already had that.
> The actual ledger that comprises Bitcoin could be run on a Raspberry Pi, no problem.
If no one else were doing it on more powerful hardware then yes. People used to mine bitcoin on old laptops.
> The obscene computing power of miners is simply applied to solving a random mathematical puzzle to determine who will get the award for doing the trivial task of adding transactions to the ledger.
It's about doing it faster than anyone else. Adding transaction to the ledger is the random mathematical puzzle. They're not separate. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:50:40 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Doesn't matter. They had multi-million dollar budgets and the full power of the courts. They smacked down a few people with unimaginable damages and everyone else just carried on as normal. It didn't work.
And guns/media absolutely affect their power model. Why do you think they are going so hard after both? -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:50:40 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Damages.... not jail.
Oh no! I owe money I never had!
And again, try fucking with the bankers and watch how long you rot. The fed doesn't fuck around about financial crimes. They're often punished harsher than the states punish murder. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:26 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> I said kill every fucking crypto-bro -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:27 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun We're going down the parade of horribles you refuse to acknowledge as a possibility -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:28 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun You can renounce your citizenship, illegally enter America, join a Venezuelan gang, and get deported to a Guatemalan ultramarine prison for the rest of your life. If you're lucky you could speed run the entire process in a single day. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:28 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
This sounds like a cool sci-fi novel but what does it have to do with anything up until this comment? -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:29 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Eiregoat @Humpleupagus @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Enjoy the hypothetical 30 years in prison for hiding crypto from the government down the road. No one is stopping you from eating a USB every morning and pooping it out every night in the gulag -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:29 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Ok, I'll enjoy the next 30 years in your imaginary prison leading imaginary prison riots against the imaginary guards.
I'm sorry to break it to you but none of this is going to happen ;) -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:30 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun We're trying to help this guy and he's thinking up every excuse in the world
😒 -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:52:30 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You're trying and failing to prove a point about a subject area you clearly don't understand. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:56:48 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
That jews family literally went into "private" banking because "court jews" were regularly killed when regimes changed. -
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LordOfTheKangs (lordofthekangs@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 18:56:49 JST
LordOfTheKangs
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun Gotta take it all the way back to Esau. Someone allegedly sold their birthright for a bowl of vegetables. The entire world is allowed to be raped for usury because of that -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 23:11:16 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Actually it's not. The government regularly tests things in the real world, legal or not. If they want to move to a crypto currency, which they do, testing a necessary step. You don't test monumental changes in a currency in a lab. That I even have to explain this. SMFH. 🙄 -
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Sovereign Analysis (sovereign@pleroma.postawakening.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 23:11:17 JST 
Sovereign Analysis
@Humpleupagus @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun That is a bit of circular reasoning that isn't answering the questions posed by @Eiregoat though. Respectfully. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 23:12:42 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I don't think you're bright enough to analogize the other uses of like technology. Other people got it. You're obviously retarded based on your comments heretofore. Please kys. -
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Sovereign Analysis (sovereign@pleroma.postawakening.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 23:12:43 JST
Sovereign Analysis
@Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun I'm not sure how you are applying this to the internet when it literally says "supply chain". It is basically talking about using blockchain to basically help auditing supply chains. This would work wonders to keep the MIC accountable actually. -
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EssentialUtinsil :njp: (essentialutinsil@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 00:00:54 JST 
EssentialUtinsil :njp:
@Mister_Sunshine @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun I used to have a full node wallet on a raspberry pi 2 ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:06 JST 
Pissed Hippo
@Floydian_Psychology @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Diogenese_Shiplap @EssentialUtinsil @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Mister_Sunshine -
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Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad: (floydian_psychology@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:07 JST
Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad:
@Mister_Sunshine @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Diogenese_Shiplap @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun i prefer the frutiger aero aesthetic -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:08 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Diogenese_Shiplap @Floydian_Psychology @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun >a certain trick of the eyes hijacks the healthy male perception.
Aye. A man could be forgiven for not noticing that this lass had her hand mangled in a horrible tractor feed printer accident. -
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Diogenese_Shiplap (diogenese_shiplap@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:09 JST 
Diogenese_Shiplap
@Mister_Sunshine @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Floydian_Psychology @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun I don't see a computer... -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:09 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Diogenese_Shiplap @Mister_Sunshine @Floydian_Psychology @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun While it’s not technically occulted by orbs, a certain trick of the eyes hijacks the healthy male perception.
-
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:10 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Floydian_Psychology @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun If I seem quick to lose my patience when a fresh batch of Bitcoiners insists that Miners are hard at work verifying the ledger and all those warehouses are working out the ledger and verifying transactions when they are just solving a random puzzle, it's because this is a recurring thing. They are convinced that the Miners validate the transactions, when in fact the actual ledger is done at node level and the Miners are handed finished blocks of transactions by the Nodes (All miners are also Nodes, but not all Nodes are also Miners) and told to give the answer to a very hard math problem and then they race to be the first one done. Nodes make sure the miners are not cheating by modifying the block (phony transaction) they were given. For some reason there are some people who will simply not accept this fact, even when how it actually works and presented with incontrovertible proof they will simply not accept it. I don't know why. Gratuitous old school Bitcoin mining lass running a node on her retro cased P4 hotrod PC because why not. We have a 50's tech Antminer sitting on top of the case there, too. -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:10 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Floydian_Psychology @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun I was curious what the absolute oldest PC that could run a full Bitcoin Node was, and it says it would be a 486 from 1992. Beige. -
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Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad: (floydian_psychology@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:11 JST
Floydian_Psychology :sonnenrad: :windmill_of_friendship: :sonnenrad:
@Mister_Sunshine @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun is this now a hellthread ? -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:11 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Floydian_Psychology @Mister_Sunshine @EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @sun I still haven’t scrolled up - but the portions I’ve read have been extremely informative, if at times impassioned. Heck, maybe because impassioned 🤓 -
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Mister_Sunshine (mister_sunshine@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 04:07:12 JST
Mister_Sunshine
@EssentialUtinsil @Humpleupagus @Eiregoat @sulaco @Floydian_Psychology @KingOfWhiteAmerica @sun These couple of knuckleheads in this thread are convinced that the giant warehouses of top end ASIC miners sucking down a city's worth of electricity are running the Bitcoin Ledger. The actual transaction updates are basically nothing computing power wise. I'm going to go bold and wild here and make this exact and say that the other 99.9999999999999999999999% of computing power used to run the Bitcoin network is just a footrace to win the prize for doing the ledger work that can literally be done on a Raspberry Pi. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:11:51 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
The government protects the possession of the server through property law. Without violence, your "reliability" requirement goes out the window. The very infrastructure in which bitcoin relies goes bye bye. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:11:52 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
> Money has no value without violence because it's only utility is to pay taxes so you do not go to jail
Before crypto took off I would have agreed, but your theory has to account for that glaring counterexample. No one violently enforced the value of bitcoin or monero or any of the other crypto and yet many of them are soaring in value.
As for the rest, yes, if you can convince a majority of the mechanism of violence within a state to abandon it then the state will collapse. At that point monetary collapse is just a detail though since they won't be able to enforce anything. -
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shortstories@merovingian.club's status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:11:53 JST 
shortstories
When they no longer believe in the things I listed it will follow that they will no longer use violence to enforce the value of money
Money has no value without violence because it's only utility is to pay taxes so you do not go to jail
If property taxes and possibly certain other taxes are not enforced with violence then money will lose it's value
People can still trade in other things than money
With property tax gone people can grow their own food
-
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:11:54 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You already said that. It's still a broken argument.
1. By that argument nothing can be used to achieve freedom because someone will always sell some of it for some amount of USD.
2. Hyperinflation exists. If they print infinite USD to try to purchase all of some commoddity then the USD will become infinitely worthless. -
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shortstories@merovingian.club's status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:11:54 JST
shortstories
1st step to freedom
Convince at least 50% of police and 50% of the military of the following
not to believe in the moral legitimacy or moral authority or factual accuracy of claims from the following
list of governments that are currently members of the United Nations
clergy of all major religions. I did not say the religions but the clergy
mainstream media
Universities and schools
In addition teach at least 50% about cultic "mind control"
-
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shortstories@merovingian.club's status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:11:55 JST
shortstories
As long as crypto currency can be purchased by United States Dollar Bills or other types of money controlled by the federal reserve it can never be used to achieve freedom because the federal reserve owners can generate unlimited money and then use that to buy the majority of any type of crypto currency
-
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:17:35 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You introducing unreliability as "evidence" of decentralisation doesn't make reliability my requirement.
Anyhow you're still wrong since one or two miners being taken out by civil unrest largely leaves the network unaffected. It's still reliable. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:17:35 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I didn't. You're literally arguing like a jew. Knock it off. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:18:39 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Don't make me pull receipts to establish that your using pilpul like a kike. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:23:20 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Receipt 1:
You introduced the term "unreliability"
Need I go on, rabbi? -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:23:21 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
You used lawyer's tricks to try to "prove" that cheques are a decentralised system because cheque fraud is possible. It's a retarded argument and far jewier than anything I've ever said. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:24:08 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
You know what. Fuck your bullshit. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:25:15 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
If you were a government that wanted to create a secure crypto currency, how would you run tests? -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:25:16 JST 
Tadg_macNuadat
while it's possible that it's an evil scheme. The evidence doesn't support that. It's still block chain. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:34:46 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
He raised the issue of reliability. He asserts, but also jewishly denies, that reliability is a necessarily element to decentralization. I'm just adopting the position he both did and didn't adopt. Being disperse doesn't establish reliability. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:34:47 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
have to disagree Hump. the 'servers' are far to disperse. It isn't amazon. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:38:33 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
It's not a paradigm shift. It's just a method of settling transactions. That whoever created it had knowledge of settlement procedure is competely suspect. What are the odds that a programmer would have intimate knowledge of banking procedures? The only explanation is that bankers were involved in the design process. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:38:34 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
I've no idea. But it wouldn't be blockchain. Bitcoin changed the game. That is why there is such a fight about it. This is not financial advice ;). I just don't think dismissing it out of hand is a good thing. It is an absolute paradigm shift. That is why they're so scared of it. Just my Irish Catholic opinion. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:41:27 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
According to eiregoat, credit cards are a decentralized currency.
They aren't cash.
They're damn near zero trust
You can pick which one you want to use to redeem good
And they're reliable -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:41:28 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
One of the biggest criticisms of crypto I see is that it's helping usher in a new cashless era. But we already lived in that era. For decades now there've been whole businesses you *cannot* transact with in cash. Most of them have no connection with any crypto market whatsoever and many of them predate crypto entirely.
The fact is that cash is dying and has been for a long time. It's better to have a replacement than be completely at the mercy of digital banking. -
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Mr. Bacon (tony@clew.lol)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:41:28 JST 
Mr. Bacon
credit cards. I rarely use cash for anything. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:41:29 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Why would I want to?
You've never been able to answer this. Governments already have highly secure digital currencies with high degrees of surveillance. Credit/debit cards are already in widespread usage. There's no advantage to any central bank to introduce a decentralised competitor they can't control. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:41:29 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
Good point. The definition of digital currency should be defined. Some places in America don't really accept cash. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:42:03 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
well it's not reliable. That is one of the big problems. Especially with how it's price fluctuates against other currencies. But more importantly they've not solved how to make payments in the instant moment. It can't be used for real time purchases. But these arguments always tend to the introduction or 'oversight and regulation' which defeats the idea of blockchain.
IMO there was, and still is a hope that WE can control the currency. To me that is very exciting intellectually. The promise is as tenuous as our current 'freedom'.
"when boyhood's fire was in my blood I read of ancient freemen".?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:47:08 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I'm not saying I agree with him.
My position is that checks are at base a dectralized currency.
His response was that they're unreliable, not decentralized.
Ergo, being reliable must be an element of dectralization. If it's not, then an unreliable currency can be decentralized.
Eiregoat has also stated that reliability is not an element of dectralization, which is a contradiction to his previous position. I tend to agree with this latter position.
If this is the case, checks are the ultimate decentralized currency.
Check my logic. It's sound. 🤷♂️ -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:50:10 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
What's the paradigm shift about keeping a ledger of accounts? -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:50:11 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
but that is completely historically inaccurate.
It was and is a paradigm shift. You talk about settling accounts. But that is the the old paradigm. I'm not trying to provoke you. Honest.
I'm arguing for the promise. The possibility. Understanding the whole time that it might very well be pie in the sky. I choose the possiblity. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 12:58:35 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
ledger of accounts? What? -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:00:01 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
A bank is not required. Anyone can make them. They can theoretically be drawn on anyone. We could use notes too. That's a two party transaction. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:00:02 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
you mean checks from the central bank are an example of decentralization? I'm not following. How can a central bank, or it's subsidiaries, be decentralized. This is what I meant about paradigm shift. do you have an animosity to bitcoin? -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:07:13 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
How have notes or checks enslaved the world?
If you argument is that having to keep a promise is slavery, then you're anti-contract, and ergo anti-private law, and ergo anti-germanic. The law of contract was a libertarian paradigm shift and of Germanic origins. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:07:14 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
I understand what you are saying. But there's a new paradigm. What you are talking about is from the old paradigm. Which by the way has enslaved the world. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:08:17 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
The idea that a man could choose his obligation rather than have the government demand duties is at base libertine. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:10:23 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
I wonder what his argument for that. The criteria for a currency is very simple, it just has to be something (relatively) fungible that people use as a medium of exchange. -
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Witch Hunter Siegfried (witch_hunter_siegfried@clew.lol)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:10:23 JST 
Witch Hunter Siegfried
His argument is that basically most people use it as an investment, and pretty much no one uses it as a currency or accepts it as one, just exchanges it for fiat. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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Witch Hunter Siegfried (witch_hunter_siegfried@clew.lol)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:10:24 JST
Witch Hunter Siegfried
IK my Libertarian fren (well call him that, he's a essentially a Natsoc worried about succession and the jews and reds taking power lol) hates it as it's just stocks and not a currency at all and not decentralized either. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:10:25 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
He believes that bitcoin is an experiment by central banks to convince people to adopt a digital currency. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:11:56 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
And as soon as it ceases to me a casino, the bottom falls out.
In the interim, and going to my theory that it's created by glowniggers, the system gets tested against every nefarious hacker man in the world. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:17:28 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> Sorry. You're gonna have to wait twenty minutes for your coffee. We only accept bitcoin. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:17:29 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Agreed. I'm generally willing to forgive that though since (so far) it hasn't been a problem.
My gripe with bitcoin is that they deliberately made it inefficient. And as far as I can tell the solution to that problem (lightning network) is quasi-centralised.
Litecoin is the most practical currency I've used so far. Transactions cost pennies and clear in under a minute. You could actually use it to run a coffee shop. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:17:29 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
A minute is too long. I mean 'I don't have all minute" when I'm trying to get a cup of coffee. It has been the single biggest problem. I'd rather use USD cash, honestly. There's an ATM on every corner. -
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Tadg_macNuadat (tadg_macnuadat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:17:30 JST
Tadg_macNuadat
yeah. That is the best argument against bitcoin. It's fungibility. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 13:20:19 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Also, in smaller communities, you don't even need cash or a check. People who know my credit is good. Just run a tab. We'll settle up. -
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Mr. Bacon (tony@clew.lol)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:07:07 JST
Mr. Bacon
We've only had the internet for 50 years. This is new. to say crypto is the solution, kinda assumes the internet will never go away. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:07:08 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
I acknowledge that crypto has more points of failure, but if things get so bad that electricity and internet become unavailable, chances are things have devolved far past a cash economy anyhow.
I used to think gold/silver might be another potential fallback currency but in practice using them requires a high degree of expertise from both vendors and customers. That expertise no longer really exists outside of a few niche industries and would take a lot of work to reestablish. -
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gentoobro (gentoobro@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:07:09 JST 
gentoobro
It's dangerous to live in a place where cash isn't universally accepted. Cash is the only form of payment that depends only on the buyer and the seller, and only at the moment of the sale. Anything else leaves you dependent on complicated and increasingly brittle and vulnerable systems.
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:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad: (eiregoat@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:07:10 JST
:spinnenrad: Eiregoat :spinnenrad:
Exactly. And even in supermarkets they're restricting the number of cash lanes now, plus a bunch of small vendors in my city are card only now. From their perspective it's more secure and less hassle.
Any competitor to that system will have to offer the same advantages. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:12:57 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Bearer instruments are better than crypto.
As eiregoat said, zero trust required is a necessity to his worldview. What's more zero trust required than a dolllar?
> oh... it could be counterfeit!
If you know what to look for on a reserve note, which I point out is a negotiable instrument, which as a class of instruments eirgoat calla "unreliable", any counterfeit not discovered is basically as good as the real thing. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:16:48 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Remember he calls crypto a currency, but uses it as an investment vehicle. He has "paid for vacation" with it, implying that he made a gain. It's not just a currency to him. He likes to go to the casino. He can't separate the two, and hence will defend it to the death.
If crypto was just a stable currency without the gains, he wouldn't bother putting in the effort. He'd just use dollars. That's optimal and efficient. Why put in effort if there's no return?
He's hooked on the "gains." -
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gentoobro (gentoobro@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:16:49 JST
gentoobro
You missed the point. The power and internet might be on, but you might not be authorized to use them for payment. Maybe you said a naughty word on the internet, or maybe your social credit score isn't high enough, or maybe the new sharia-vegan overlords have banned meat sales to non-Muslims, or maybe the giant pile of glitchy Microsoft shitware written by an army of H1-B's has stopped working and nobody knows why. And also the store's ISP's accounting office's Winblows computers took a shit too, so they can't pay transit fees to their upstream, so you're now stuck with dialup speeds until they can reinstall the entire glitchy software suite on new machines and then restore from backups on tape.
Just look at ATC.
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:19:06 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Crypto-bros are just another version of the pothead who does nothing but talk about how great pot is and how George Washington grew hemp. Change my mind. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:34:02 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Humpleupagus @Tony @Eiregoat @Tadg_macNuadat @gentoobro @sun No man it’s totally safe and useful for thirty-three thousand industrial products, maaaan. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:34:02 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> George washington created the first set of decentralized currencies when every state under the articles of confederation could print their own money instead of using bank of England coin. -
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gentoobro (gentoobro@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:47:40 JST
gentoobro
"Gains" will continue until the elites decide to pull the rug.
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 15:47:40 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
And if the butcher, the baker, and the candle stick maker aren't using it due to regulation, it's pretty much worthless.
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