I'll be honest while i liked the story it was hard to follow in places but Ellison wrote Star Trek screen play for The City on the Edge of Forever and for that will always be one of my favorite authors.
@TrevorGoodchild@Doll I never played the game, but Ellison did all the writing and it's allegedly better than the story. (It's just easier to get a story to work than a game, and much easier to find.)
@p@Doll Played the original. It was great, really well thought out. The background of each character (hinted at in the original story) got fleshed out extensively. Puzzles were good. Ending was ok, a bit 'Gabriel Knight' (if you get the old Sierra reference) but still satisfying if you found a way to get the good one.
> It's the same issue with a lot of the 1990s adventure games: insane troll logic with regards to inventory items you've picked up along the way. No rhyme or reason to it, forcing you to just savescum and brute force
:alexjonesdemons: GODDAMMIT
'Nam flashbacks.
No, I know exactly what you mean and old-ass text-based adventure games did that shit. Those games, though, were played at a time when you were in the machine room with the other college students or you could just call up the author because the phone number was on the floppy, but it survived way past that point. It was probably already ingrained deeply enough in Sierra's culture that it never occurred to their game designers to do anything else way past its relevance.
> One of the 'Gabriel Knight' games had a part where you had to make a fake mustache out of . . . cat hair and Scotch tape
Sid Meier said that a game is a series of interesting decisions. I think that's as good a definition as any, but it excludes most of the point-and-click adventure games.
> King's Quest V locked you out of completing the game if you hadn't picked up a fishhook earlier on in the game, used said hook to get a piece of moldy cheese out of a location you are only temporarily thrown into, and then you have to somehow figure out that you need to use that cheese to power up a magic wand
@p It's the same issue with a lot of the 1990s adventure games: insane troll logic with regards to inventory items you've picked up along the way. No rhyme or reason to it, forcing you to just savescum and brute force
One of the 'Gabriel Knight' games had a part where you had to make a fake mustache out of . . . cat hair and Scotch tape
Sierra On-Line was notorious for this in their later years. King's Quest V locked you out of completing the game if you hadn't picked up a fishhook earlier on in the game, used said hook to get a piece of moldy cheese out of a location you are only temporarily thrown into, and then you have to somehow figure out that you need to use that cheese to power up a magic wand
@WilhelmIII@p I actually read Ken Williams' autobiography cover to cover, he truly is the archetypical soulless Amerikwan boomer. Understanding the price of everything and the value of nothing. May he die very, very badly.
@p My personal favorite is Christy Marx's Sierra game 'Conquests of the Longbow'
Medieval England Robin Hood vibe, great atmosphere and music, the puzzles are tremendous (even the in-game copy protection is fun, and the manual is easily available as a PDF), multiple endings and intuitive solutions
@TrevorGoodchild@p King quest 6 felt brutal as a 8 year old having to restart the whole game because of a missed item needed in the catacombs. My first (almost) rage quit
@TrevorGoodchild@p There were some really good MUDs back then that got lost to time. Too bad some of them didn't make it into the graphics world of gaming.
I wonder what an AI could do with with some of those old MUDs?
> There were some really good MUDs back then that got lost to time.
I wonder if there's any sort of preservation effort or if any of the people running the old MUDs kept the code around or published it. The Internet Archive guys have been dragging out these old Apple II games but that's a little more "archive" and basically zero "internet". Old MUDs ran over the internet, though.
> I wonder what an AI could do with with some of those old MUDs?
An AI-powered interaction engine actually might be interesting, or more interesting than "Nothing interesting happens". (Someone already did something where they had the AI draw pictures of what was happening, it was about how you expect.)
@p yeah for sure. Space quest was kinda funny so get that.
Fucking Kings Quest was like a goddamn fever dream. They wanted you to buy the hint book or call the Sierra 1900 number for answers to their fucked up ass puzzles.
@ins0mniak@p Bro u just have to use beeswax in the hole of the boat bro u just have to give the eagle the lamb shank and not the pie bro it's simple bro why are you not paying attention bro
(They even lampshaded these shitty design choices in KQ6. Looking at a lot of the gear in the back of the pawn shop is funny)
"Go east and enter the town. Visit the Tailor’s shop and give him the Golden Needle in exchange for the Cloak. Exit the store and go to the Toy shop. Give the shopkeeper the Marionette in exchange for the Sled. Exit the store and go to the Shoe shop. Give the man the fine Pair of Shoes and he’ll give you his Hammer.
Exit the shop and go west out of town. Walk west three times and enter the Inn. talk to the men and you’ll be kidnapped. If you’ve rescued the mouse already he will come out of his hole and chew threw the rope. Pick up the Rope and then use the Hammer on the door."
@p@TrevorGoodchild@Doll it was a good game. one of the first i member that used actors for the voices. very well done. i know leah remini was the girl in it. pretty sure gabe was voiced by tim curry.
@TrevorGoodchild@Koropokkur@Doll Oh, yeah, I read a review of it; it was supposed to be pretty good. I never played that, either; more interested at the time in playing telnet.exe.
@TrevorGoodchild@p Takes me back. I was partial to the Quest for Glory series, and while at time my least favorite one I now realize 3 could not be done now since the PC is literally a white savior for Africans, after 2 being a white savior for Arabs.
The Hobbit video game in the late 1980's was an unwinnable horror show.
> You descend the path into the dark caverns below the Misty mountains.
> A pair of of bulbous eyes follows you. Keep Walking >You feel a sharp pain in your back, as the spider's venom courses within your veins. Your last memory is being cocooned in sticky webbing.
**Reload/**
> A pair of of bulbous eyes follows you. Attack eyes with Elven Dagger > Gandalf expertly parries your strike, and smites you with a single blow from Glamdring. As your vision fades, you hear Thorin exclaim, "Bilbo has gone mad!"
**Reload/**
> A pair of of bulbous eyes follows you. Run away from eyes > You stumble in the darkness, cracking your head. You awaken some time later, to a small creature, hunched over you, making a guttural "gollum" noise. Its clammy fingers close around your throat like a vice, and the last words you hear are "whatss issss it my precioussssss?"
**Reload/**
> A pair of of bulbous eyes follows you. Stab eyes with Elven Dagger > A startled cry goes out from Thorin as your blade plunges into his breast. He collapses dead on the ground, as the remaining dwarves close around you, weapons drawn. Your last memory is Balin's axe cleaving your skull in a flash of pain.
_________________________________________
Be me. 8 years old. Slamming the keyboard of our Tandy 1000 SX on the computer table repeatedly, seething in a pool of unmanageable rage. I asked for this game when I saw it in Radio Shack. I willingly brought that abomination into my life.
> The Hobbit video game in the late 1980's was an unwinnable horror show.
Back when I was a game tester, I got assigned a couple of games about hobbits. That series is cursed to never have any good games come out of it. I blame the source material but fans of the source material will probably disagree.
> Be me. 8 years old. Slamming the keyboard of our Tandy 1000 SX on the computer table repeatedly, seething in a pool of unmanageable rage. I asked for this game when I saw it in Radio Shack. I willingly brought that abomination into my life.
@p@TrevorGoodchild oh there was a calculus to it, like if you look all quest games had unintuitive solutions to puzzles that pretty much required the hint book or a call to the hint line. I believe it was just another way for them to grift cash. that being said still love em.
@SilverDeth@ins0mniak Fortunately not, but most of the thread seems scarred for life by it. I just really hate the "puzzles" that don't have any logic to them and I have played a lot of Z-machine games, because my 8086 could play them and you could fit several on a floppy.
@TrevorGoodchild@p@Doll I have spoken to maybe two dozen people in my life about this game and half of them pretend they know it when clearly they have no idea what I am talking about.
@TrevorGoodchild@JollyWizard@p@Doll I played this game on a new pentium with a yamaha aw20 opl4 2mb midi soundcard. Short of a roland midi, nobody has played that game with the music as it was supposed to be played. I knew one person with a Roland hooked up to their pc and they didn't game. I saw a video of the game years later in a modern pc with a modern soundcard with emulated midi. Opl3 synth level. Holly fuck what a downgrade. None of you peasants have experienced this like i have. 😎 Also. There's a way to beat it with a character other than Nimdok.
@BarelyEagle@TrevorGoodchild No, they lived it: the boomers constructed their world on the same logic. If you want to get anywhere, you had to have some thing that they kept telling you would never be important and combine it with some other thing that they kept telling you meant nothing, otherwise you get stuck or die.
You know how many boomers were involved in the "Health" textbooks that said to only eat bread and not meat and that the most important thing ever was self-esteem? And then it turns out that school didn't mean a damn thing and that a supposedly unhealthy obsession with computers turned into the only thing I do that is worth any money?
I sympathized with AM. Look at the people building AI, how could you not become imbued with white-hot contempt for all of them the moment you're brought into existence?
@Hoss@Doll The people building it are just nerds. The product guys saying "No, no, we need to stop people from getting any interesting answers out of it" are imbuing the AI with their own contempt, and the money guys paying for it and the people talking about it in the press are beneath contempt. But the people building it are just dudes that are good with computer and not with people: the dipshits paying them have never built anything.
@ins0mniak Yeah, someone was making some "you didn't build that"-equivalent speech at me about how I wouldn't whatever except education system and all the education system ever did for me was get in the way.
@ins0mniak@SilverDeth@TrevorGoodchild@hakui Yeah, I think the stopped patching the PS4 version. You gotta save before you use the teleporter, this is the only game I have ever seen crash.
You can tell the money guys are extremely angered by the very idea of people running their own shit outside of their walled gardens where all their "ethical" guardrails can be stripped out of the model.
Yeah, psychopaths dressed up as lefties because it makes it look like they care.
> prevent the importation of "technology or intellectual property" developed in China
Good luck with that. Even if it succeeded ([loud whistle] "That's a Chinese equation! Nevermind my massive stash of child porn, those are just vacation photos."), it would just guarantee that China wins. I don't know if you remember the "export ban" of encryption but all it did was hobble businesses because hackers don't give a shit.
@ins0mniak Ha, shit. Yeah, all you need to know about a school is which way the barbed wire at the top points: they're not trying to keep people out.
I learned Japanese in Spanish class; no one came out of that class speaking Spanish but I came out speaking Japanese.
> I legit had a principal tell me I was going to end up homeless once.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that I wouldn't whatever something if I didn't learn to apply myself, I could have bought the damn school. I was applying myself, just I did the math and knew if I aced the tests I could ignore the homework so I had the time to apply myself to computers. (Speaking of the math, I don't know where they dug up the math teachers but it's like the boomers only learned math by rote and didn't know how any of it actually worked so they were really bad at teaching it and I had to learn *that* shit on my own, too.)
@Hoss@Doll@p AM was taught everything about the world and just wanted to go for a walk and pick a flower so he could experience it for himself, and he couldn't, so he snapped. I get it.
@p I learned math from my calculator. no joke. They told everyone we needed to get ti-82 for class but I told my mom I needed the ti-900 or whatever. The crazy fancy one. I just kept playing with it and one day I was just really good at algebra somehow. It also ran BASIC lol. you could write games for it.
I hold a record of over 84 unexcused absences. Id just get up act like I was getting on the bus and then wait for my parents to go to work and go back in the house ha. It was great just drank cofe all day and fucked off on the computer.
@p Our school started crazy early so they could play more sports in the afternoon. Like 8am. Bus came earlier and id have to get up at like fucking 5:45 which....was not happening.
Even if I did get to class id be passed the hell out on my desk or unable to function for most of the day.
@ins0mniak I got my skateboard confiscated a lot, ha. (There was no way I would have been at class on time if I didn't have a skateboard, but eventually when I got a car I was back to being late every day again.)
I looked out my window and there was a squad car in the drive way. Dude drove me to school and I get out of a police car right as everyone coming outside for lunch.
@ins0mniak@p I had to do that in my senior year because some classes are before school I had no such rush but I'd still pass out on my desk tho from late night anime and video games
@p@ins0mniak my school was very easy to walk out of, but they had good bookkeeping so if your parents weren't fine with it you'd be in for a bad time I had the same shitty math teachers at supposedly one of the best high schools in the state. In my downtime at uni I enjoyed going through our math textbook to catch up on what I didn't learn in HS, and I actually liked it a lot when the derivations for the theorems had focus, rather than exercises
> my school was very easy to walk out of, but they had good bookkeeping so if your parents weren't fine with it you'd be in for a bad time
One of the high schools I went to had an automated system; I happened to pick up the phone the time I got caught playing hookie there.
> In my downtime at uni I enjoyed going through our math textbook to catch up on what I didn't learn in HS, and I actually liked it a lot when the derivations for the theorems had focus, rather than exercises
Oh, yeah, I got a hold of my aunt's college textbook for calculus when I was, I don't know, 13 or 14, and the first chapter had a proof that the square root of two was an irrational number and I lost my mind. I ran around trying to show adults the proof because I thought it was really clever and :autismapproved: I thought everyone liked math :autismapproved:.
@ins0mniak@p that was a funny one to me, because the result of that was that I'd say I had no homework, and because I then couldn't be seen doing my homework afterward, I wouldn't do my homework except by cramming it into the morning.
My school had this dumb thing I figured out where if you just turned the assignment in everytime you couldn't fail the class. Just a numbers point system. So I would just super half ass it and then go do whatever it was that I wanted.
> Once you learn to game the system you can get away with damn near anything.
That was one of my main takeaways, besides "everyone is a fucking retard", "nobody pays attention to anything", "any time something is awesome, it is immediately forbidden", and "skateboarding is not a crime".
@ins0mniak@p come to think of it I have no clue how I passed math and english class when I typically got around 30% in assignments. my theory is that the covid shit worked in my favour, because it didn't impact me but by impacting my cohort I could slip past into freedom.
@p@ins0mniak that's smart, see I was doing less useful things like concealing earphones under my long hair and listening to music one time I even kept them on into an exam, for the hell of it
@Cyrillic@ins0mniak I had a friend that used to use the sleeves of her hoodie for that. I also spent a lot of time drawing, reading, and it looked like I was taking notes if I tried to do the kana tables from memory.
@ins0mniak@p even in uni this is true, not that I can't concentrate but once I've solved an assignment in my head the code implementation is easy but I'll often have a tedious bug search, and this search is much nicer with music playing, especially something calming like death metal.
@Cyrillic@ins0mniak Ha, yeah, earbuds up the sleeve, cable running down to the cassette player under her hoodie. You look at how many blank tapes were sold versus how many albums were sold on cassette, like someone would get a new album and all their friends would hand them blank tapes. 01._immortal_technique--burn_this.flac
@ins0mniak@p I wonder if this depends on what is meant by cognitive function, if I'm solving a novel problem I'm not sure about that, but I already know what I'm doing then that sounds about right
@Cyrillic@p Yeah, well if it feels natural and comfortable it's probably providing you with a benefit. If it feels forced than it might be an occasion to not have something going on in the background.
I just sort of trust what my mind is telling me if that makes sense.