Notices by Neal Gompa (ニール・ゴンパ) :fedora: (conan_kudo@fosstodon.org)

@thelinuxEXP @fabyk @kernellogger @tuxedocomputers It is incompatible even for regular redistribution by everyone. And nobody can help them upstream the drivers because the code is effectively radioactive.

It's absolutely a terrible move and it should be fixed.

@hp @bruxisma Because nobody likes the fact that *people matter* for technology. There are a lot of people out there who say they're "in it for the tech", which completely ignores the fact that technology exists solely to help solve people's problems, which means developers of tech need to understand what the users actually need to create good tech.

This is a neat little website referencing #Wayland ecosystem tools: https://wearewaylandnow.com

@icculus Awesome! So... What about `sdl2_compat`?

@BrodieOnLinux Where is @sfalken posting this?

@BrodieOnLinux @sfalken I actually kind of think that a firewall *does* make sense to be shipped on a desktop Linux environment with most ports closed by default for the sole reason that the dominant form factor now is a laptop and connecting to public networks without a system-level firewall is asking for trouble...

What we need though is NetworkManager to bind each network to a particular firewall zone (similar to what Windows does). That way, we can be smarter about firewall rules.

@marcan @thephd Yeah, this is actually a nothingburger for everyone. It's not a big deal, and it is basically nothing we didn't already kind of know.

The stupidity around PPDs is the *whole reason* CUPS 3.0 is happening: it rips PPD support out of the whole thing and stuffs it into an external process that talks over IPP (Cf. PAPPL), specifically so that PPD-based printer communication can be locked down even further than it already is.

@Lyude I know there are some words I use the British spelling mostly because of the books I read when I first encountered the words. A good example for me is "dialogue". I rarely use the American "dialog" unless I'm referring to the computing concept.

@pq @frog @emersion @krh Wayland, as used today, is already not functional without things that aren't in wayland-protocols. On the GNOME side, there's both private protocols and a mixture of private and public D-Bus interfaces. On the KDE side, they use private protocols and third-party protocols. Most other Wayland environments follow the KDE approach too. A lot of them are the same third-party protocols. That says to me we're not doing a good job of integrating things that are commonly needed.

@pq @frog @emersion @krh In practice, it does not seem to be as hard as it looks to get wide agreement, it's just much harder to get *universal* agreement. It often seems like the latter is necessary to get anything done, and that's something we need to put more effort into squashing.

There also seems to be a fear of "dead batteries", but I don't think that's something we should be concerning ourselves. Things tend to naturally work themselves out over time anyway.

@pq @frog @emersion @krh I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head as to why we have a problem now and why frog-protocols now exists.

When I talk to folks who develop compositors, the majority of them don't support this idea that protocols need to be perfect before they land. On the contrary, it seems to be burning people out to try to deal with that expectation. Also, I think that the "principles" had little influence on adoption of Wayland, but rather desperation to replace X11.

@Lyude @lina @desttinghim If we take Rust out of the equation and look at any other large scale modernization effort, we see pretty much the same problems.

I like to pick on folios because I'm mostly a storage guy, but that transition has been long and painful because there's fundamentally no real leadership in Linux. A lot of storage developers just cannot handle working in an organized fashion.

DRM is the most organized subsystem and even it suffers through these kinds of problems.

@janl @b0rk Well, this is dependent on the filesystem. For HFS/HFS+, yes. The `:` was the separator for classic Mac OS/System Software, and since HFS+ used in Mac OS X/macOS descends from classic Mac OS HFS, it has that.

@mjg59 Honestly, that's not really a good excuse. It's basically never okay to break someone's systems for any reason. And at least from the Linux side, I know for a fact that several distributions struggled to get updated shims from Microsoft since that CVE, so the damage is considerably worse. For example, Fedora and CentOS Stream both didn't get an updated shim until Fedora 40, after well over a year of needing an updated shim to deal with revocations.

@mjg59 @dalias Well, sometimes. I have encountered computers that don't have that ability. Some Lenovo x86 ones and some early WoA machines don't have it. I don't know about current WoA machines, but I know that it is not required to offer the ability to switch off secure boot on either x86 or aarch64.

@mjg59 @dalias Secure Boot is neither a security feature nor a DRM feature. It's a poorly implemented feature that we all have to live with as means of interoperability with Windows PCs.

@andriyngvason @matt

I suspect it would be possible to implement support for this as a KWin plugin so that these applications would work. @AleixPol prototyped `ext-zones-v1` from @matk as a KWin plugin, I don't see a reason that `ext-image-copy-capture-v1` couldn't be done the same way. @Zamundaaa might disabuse me of that notion, though. 😛

@BrodieOnLinux @lina I blame Digimon. It's been in my head for decades because of *Digimon: The Movie*. 😂

@omenos @monsieurborni @LWN It's not straightforward even to us who deal with it all the time. That was a point many people tried to make in the conference talk and the ensuing discussion.

@bookwar I firmly disagree with the practice of intentionally breaking people at EOL. I'd like for us to stop doing it, but I have no power to do anything about it.