Notices tagged with xmpp, page 15

On the other hand, I might write more about it today. (The weekend wasn't as close as I thought when I wrote that.)

The best #peerToPeer systems allow ordinary people to use them without having to rely on a system administrator, or be one themself. What I described above clearly isn't that kind of #P2P system.

But it is a proof-of-concept demonstration, and I'm sure it would be possible to bundle an #XMPP server with its own internal #yggdrasil component, like @neilalexander's #yggmail does for email.

There's something to be said for the way yggmail lets you use your favourite email client, and that could be one way to go for peer-to-peer XMPP, but another alternative would be to bundle the relevant parts of an XMPP client in there, too (so it doesn't need to worry about client-to-server communication), resulting in an an all-in-one #XMP2P app that anyone could use.

Next time, I might talk about interoperability with the existing federated XMPP network.

An #XMP2P network could be hard to get off the ground without any significant network effect at the start. But what if XMP2P users could easily join multi-user chats in the existing #XMPP network, and talk to users of existing XMPP servers?

How much work would it take to get a federated XMPP server to accept server-to-server connections from XMP2P apps?

Not much, it turns out:

1. In order to talk to an #Yggdrasil address, a federated XMPP server would need to be running Yggdrasil, in order to have its own Yggdrasil address. (It could use a 300::/8 address delegated from a router running Yggdrasil, instead of running Yggdrasil itself, but this would lose the end-to-endness of Yggdrasil's encryption.)

2. In order to accept identity assertions from XMP2P apps, a federated XMPP server would need to accept self-signed certificates, at least from Yggdrasil addresses (or accept non-TLS connections from them, since Yggdrasil has built-in end-to-end encryption).

And that's all!

In particular, the federated XMPP server does *not* need to put its Yggdrasil address in any of its DNS entries. As long as an XMP2P app can access the internet outside Yggdrasil, it can make outbound connections to the XMPP server's normal address that it advertises to the rest of the world. And the XMP2P app can, at the same time, accept inbound connections on its stable Yggdrasil address, regardless of whether it's behind CGNAT or whatever. The dialback protocol (often used to verify an XMPP server's identity when TLS identity verification isn't being used) already assumes that outbound and inbound connections might use different IP addresses, or even be on different machines.

I tested the above and confirmed it works in @prosodyim 0.12.3; I also tried it with the federated server end being on #Prosody 0.11.9, and it failed, though I'm not certain why.

involved reached out to ask and get more information.

It's increasingly difficult for me to not side with my users if the alternative is a moderation style that's aggressive and ruthless.

But this isn't about me. When these new Reddit refugees express their concerns about something that seems to have been normalized on #mastodon or the wider #fediverse, I realize that I'm not alone.

Jabber / #XMPP did not have this problem. Neither does email, mainly because it's all private messages, but we better do something to be more responsible with our users to which we owe a sensible moderation instead of doing things on a whim with disregard of the people it affects.

#Lemmy / #Kbin needs to implement silences and Fediblock's popularity needs to be converted into Fedimute.

Fediblocking IMHO is almost only warranted if a remote instance is spammy, harassing or disruptive. Just like blocking spam servers.

Muting should be implemented in such a way that it allows the instance owner to

I'm not sure if I buy the whole #meta #facebook killed #xmpp. I've seen several services, with large user bases, using xmpp, or some abstraction of the same protocol. I don't think the concerns are invalid, I just think there's a bit more to it.

@fuat2mb @ksv236 @TwistedEagle Yep! I personally do prefer #Matrix but #XMPP is good as well.

@atomicpoet

This: (probably a lil bit off-topic)

> Of course he wants to help Meta abide by open standards. Which, even if you dislike Meta, you would hope they would do.

I mentioned it before, this is the disconnect between the #1stGen (2008–2015) and #2ndGen (2016–Present) #Fediverse users.

Us, 1st Gen, our concern is to bring the down the walls and enable a decentralised and federated #SocialWeb. The idea itself is older than the fediverse, there were many names involved and who pioneered the pushed for it and are now forgotten.

Even me, to this day, I do welcome them federating even if they already did something EEE-like before (for example, FB Messenger federating and then defederating from #xmpp).

While I do want people to migrate over to a fediverse service made for it by developers who believes in it, the main goal is still to bring down the walls, and get them to federate … permanently.

It's why I also I welcome #Flickr and #Tumblr into the fold (and waiting for them to do so).

And for someone like me who was banned from #Instagram for no reason at all other than because I am #Autistic (I rarely use my Instagram, and when I do, it was to upload a work of mine, so clearly there were no violations), having them federate would enable me to communicate with Instagram users once again.

[[Meta]] [[Fediverse]] [[SocialWeb]] [[ActivityPub]]

@evan

First off, @evan@cosocial.ca sees this from the perspective of someone who's co-authored #ActivityPub. It's his job to spur and enable adoption -- and that's something he's done exceptionally well for 20 years. Of course he wants to help Meta abide by open standards. Which, even if you dislike Meta, you would hope they would do.

My perspective is as one who is building products that compete with Meta. Ideally, I would like people who use Meta to migrate away from there and instead use #Calckey, #GreatApe, and the numerous options available on #SpaceHost.

But even from the perspective of a competitor, I want interoperability with #Barcelona. And even more, I want interoperability based on open standards.

Yes, yes, yes -- "embrace, extend, extinguish". At this point, that phrase is a broken record.

But every time that phrase comes up, I keep asking folks: when has the "extinguish" part of "embrace, extend, extinguish" ever worked?

People say #RSS, but RSS is still here and I use every day. Hell, Calckey even has an RSS widget and it works like a charm. RSS is not extinguished.

People also say #XMPP, but I can run an XMPP server right now -- no problems. People say XMPP "died" because it's no longer as popular now, but is it because Meta and Google dropped support, or is it because Slack, Discord, Signal, WhatsApp, and even Matrix have come along to eclipse it in popularity? Regardless, even if XMPP is no longer so popular, it's not extinguished.

The most ludicrous example of "extinguish" people bring up is Gmail's dominance of email. But email is the most popular communications technology we have today, even though it's 50 years old. What's more, look at the raw stats. Gmail is only 18% of the email server market -- that's no monopoly. Go have a look at the stats for yourselves:

https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/email_server

Suffice it to say, email is not "extinguished".

The pessimistic notion that we will "lose" by allowing Meta to interoperate with ActivityPub -- again, an open standard -- just doesn't convince me. In fact, if Meta is adopting standard ActivityPub, I think "losing" is impossible.

With Meta adopting ActivityPub, we're not losing. We're winning. We're not conceding to Meta by adopting their proprietary APIs for interoperability. They're conceding to us by adopting ActivityPub.

Again, I'm not saying you should all federate with #Barcelona. I'm saying that Meta adopting an open standard that allows for interoperability is a win because, remember, they're adopting our standard. We're not adopting theirs.

Some also ask, "But what if Meta does a bait-and-switch and drops ActivityPub support?"

Well, there's kind of precedence for that.

Not enough people realize this, but Google once adopted the predecessor of ActivityPub. Specifically, they used OStatus for Google Buzz. Certainly, like many Google products, Google Buzz shuttered.

But the development for an open social media protocol lived on, and we all use what was developed right now.

No doubt, if Barcelona becomes Meta's Google Buzz, ActivityPub will live on. It will still be developed. We'll keep using it.

In the meantime, I'll consider ways to help Meta users migrate to platforms that I believe are better.

RE: https://calckey.social/notes/9f9xt5dzh2

Gajim 1.8.0 has been released 🥳 and it comes with integrated OMEMO encryption! Integrating the OMEMO plugin brings tighter integration and better user experience.

We also rearranged the chat menu and added some quick buttons for convenience.

Both Gajim’s message search and conversation view received some important changes and fixes.

Thank you for all your contributions!

#gajim #xmpp #chat

https://gajim.org/post/2023-05-27-gajim-1.8.0-released/

@liaizon
I prefer #xmpp but I don't get why this causes so much flap on the fediverse. Matrix is selling their messaging as a business model and also sell it to the police, so what?
@element

@MudMan @apparentlymart @youronlyone@calckey.social @atomicpoet @pablowapsi

I recently started using #MycelialNetwork myself. (It started from this discussion thread: https://calckey.social/clips/9e0jyttriv )

My usage today is more broader than was originally discussed.

Mycelium (s.) is a network of fungal threads. So, many mycelium, mycelial, is a network of network of fungal threads (did that make sense?)

If we use it in the federated/federation sense, the Mycelial Network is the following:
1. Mycelium #Fediverse
2. Mycelium #XMPP / #Jabber
3. Mycelium #Matrix
4. Mycelium #ATP

And in between them are bridges (or portals?) which allows cross communication. (Hopefully we get one for ATP.)

It can also cover what has been discussed on this thread like: eMail and IRC.

Or, #SocialWeb is more than enough to describe it all together?

#Federation #Decentralization #Mycelium #Mycelial

@MudMan @apparentlymart @youronlyone@calckey.social @atomicpoet @pablowapsi I recently started using #MycelialNetwork myself. (It started from this discussion thread: https://calckey.social/clips/9e0jyttriv )

My usage today is more broader than was originally discussed.

Mycelium (s.) is a network of fungal threads. So, many mycelium, mycelial, is a network of network of fungal threads (did that make sense?)

If we use it in the federated/federation sense, Mycelial Network is the following:
1. Mycelium Fediverse
2. Mycelium #XMPP / #Jabber
3. Mycelium #Matrix
4. Mycelium #ATP

And in between them are bridges (or portals?) which allows cross communication. (Hopefully we get one for ATP.)

It can also cover what has been discussed on this thread like: eMail and IRC.

Or, #SocialWeb is more than enough to describe it all together?

#XMPP / #Jabber picks of the day:

➡️ @joinjabber - Helping non-technical people join XMPP

➡️ @daniel - Project lead on Conversations app

➡️ @prav - Indian XMPP app/service

➡️ @snikket_im - XMPP servers/apps with unified look & feel

➡️ @Monal - iPhone/iPad & Mac app

➡️ @gajim - Linux, Mac, Win app

➡️ @dino - Linux app

➡️ @xmpp - XMPP standards foundation

➡️ @prosodyim - Server software

➡️ @tigase - Server software/apps

➡️ @mellium - Go-based XMPP resources

➡️ @kaidan - Linux/Android app

Hey FOSS fam, I need your expert opinions:

I'd like to stand up a chat server for a small 1-day con that I'm organizing, but I don't want to use Slack or Discord or any of the other freemium corpo services. What can I run instead?

Must haves:
* FOSS (obv)
* can run on a relatively inexpensive VPS (e.g., Hetzner or Digital Ocean)
* reasonably performant (up to 50 concurrent users)
* web GUI for users who don't want to download an app
* chat room
* allows basic moderation functionality (eg ban)
* reasonably secure

Nice to haves:
* end to end encryption
* ease of setup / administration
* invite-only channels (in addition to public room)
* direct messaging

From my research so far, my understanding is that I can basically choose between #matrix or #xmpp. (Maybe #IRC ??)

Of the two, XMPP looks like it's more performant (I see constantly see people complain about Matrix being slow) at the expense of encryption by default. Still, I'm not sure which implementation of XMPP server would suit our needs best.

What do you think? What would you suggest?

Boosts welcome!

#foss #chat #privacy #infosec #linux #debian #ubuntu #bsides #cybersecurity #selfhost

@fediversereport @signalapp I believe that @matrix and #XMPP has the best shot in doing just that.

It was an honour to hand over those chocolates to several #FreeSoftware contributors, e.g. to @cketti for his work on #K9Mail , @larma for #MicroG + #Dino #XMPP client, Andreas Schildbach for #Oeffi, Holger Levsen for #Debian, Jos for @nextcloud , @Tobias for #Friendica, and so many more... at the #ilovefs party organised by the @fsfe .

Great to hear how many others got a thank you there, e.g. @libreoffice @kdecommunity@gnusocial.de @opensuse and many more.

Hope you like the chocolate!!! ? #nt