Paul Cantrell
I’m now a few days into using an electric cargo bike (a Tern GSD) as my primary form of transportation. It’s…awesome.
I'll be dumping notes on the whole experience into this thread: joys, obstacles, tricks, rationales, questions, mistakes, details, discoveries…everything. Just a big old ongoing data dump. My hope is the notes here end up being useful to others.
Many posts to follow over time. If this is •not• useful to you, no worries! Mute the hashtag: #BikeDiary
Lots more to follow. 🧵
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary A bit on the rationale:
Many reasons, but the big one is the climate. I have a venerable ~20yo stick shift Honda Civic. It won't last forever. When it stops running, what replaces it?
The Civic gets 25-35mpg. I drive it ~4000 mi/yr. Casual research & quick estimation suggests suggests that the sunk carbon cost of just •manufacturing• a car is approx the same as driving the old Civid for another •decade•. Replacing the Civic with •any• car — even an EV! — has a massive climate cost.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary It seems like the best thing I can do for the climate here is to keep driving my gas-powered Civic while working to make it so that when it finally dies, I'm barely using it and don't feel like I need to replace it.
In short: the goal of this cargo bike adventure is to move from a two-car family to a one-car family.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary One week in: I •love• it. It’s just…so cool. I'm hard pressed to think of the last time something introduced this much joy and life into my daily routine.
I got the model with the cushy seat in the back, and it transports my daughter quite comfortably. Her first several times riding on the back, should couldn't stop squealing with glee — and still does at least once per ride.
People do go on about their cargo bikes and their e-bikes. I totally get it now.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary My traditional bike is an aluminum frame cyclocross (a Redline, lovely bike), and it's nimble, quick, light, spritely. Riding feels like going for a run or skiing; if it’s a car, it’s some sporty little thing.
The Tern is none of that. People sometime say “minivan,” but that’s not quite right. It’s a station wagon. A really elegant station wagon.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary An unexpected effect of this bike being my primary transportation is the psychological experience. It’s mellow, sociable, relaxed. It kind of gets my brain on “cargo bike pace,” pleasantly energized and relaxed.
It rides like a bike, but with the electric assist, the energy expenditure is more like walking: I'll break a light sweat if it’s warm, but only a light one. After the ride, I feel pleasantly like I moved my body, but not like I did a workout.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary Why the mellowness vs my regular bike? Part of it is the electric motor. Part is the low speed: it I settle in very comfortably at 16-18mph, but getting it over 20mph is damned hard without a hill.
A third surprising ingredient: the riding posture. It’s built to ride upright, I find myself instinctively sitting up tall instead of slouching (unusual for me!) or hunching over. Really different feel.
(Again, please mute the hashtag #BikeDiary if you don’t want to read all this!)
Paul Cantrell
@becha
You are not the first to ask! They may come eventually.
Vesna Manojlovic
@inthehands pics, please!
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary The upright posture means I'm still •really• unsure about the handling: I corner overcautiously, go one and off sidewalks clumsily, etc. I just don’t have any instincts yet about where the limits are. At first I could barely start. Carrying over experiences from my old bike, I keep feeling like I’m about to fall over, even though the small wheels and low center of gravity mean I’m nowhere •near• about to fall over. Lots of relearning happening.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary This is a good question from @charliepark. I got the S00.
Once I'd settled on the GSD, choosing this particular model was easy: (1) I live in MN, and want to ride as close to 12 months a year as I can manage. (2) My budget is “this is instead of a car.”
Put those two together, and it says “belt drive.” (The belt drive holds up much better in rain and snow, apparently.)
Paul Cantrell
@charliepark #BikeDiary That narrowed it down to the S00 and the R14, and as one person at the bike shop (Perennial Cycles 💙) put it about the R14’s extra fancy features, “If you’re not asking for it, believe me, you don’t need it!”
The Terns are super duper modular, which means that there are a •lot• of decisions to make (and also means that you will spend a •lot• more than the bare base price, be warned). I like the choices, but…be prepared.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary Probably the bigger question for many is how I came to the Tern GSD in the first place. The answer is the obvious one: I asked around, got opinions from trusted people, thought hard about my needs, did a •lot• of homework, and then — this was crucial — I test rode half a dozen bikes.
I cannot recommend the test ride enough. No amount of photos, videos, specs, and explanation can substitute for experience.
After the test ride, the real contenders were the GSD and the Urban Arrow.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary There are so many good choices now! There’s a lot to be said for the simplicity of the Urban Arrow: it’s basically a giant bucket, a simple design concept that’s super versatile. I could really see enjoying a Yuba Spicy Curry if I were looking for something a little less heavy duty (and less pricey). Folks love their Xtracycles (though somehow it didn't click for me in the test ride).
What did I love about the Tern? Absurdly configurable and modular, compact, over-engineered.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary The Tern’s design is just chock full of Good Choices. Over and over I’d notice a potential problem and then notice, “Oh, they thought of that!” Examples: the way the lockstand works, the way the cargo bags latch and fold, how the shape of the seat fits the riding posture, the way it remembers that I want to always ride with the lights on, the brake light. It has a brake light! Frigging brilliant.
The beautiful nerds who designed this bike are my kind of people.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary By far the most difficult and frustrating part of it has been storing the bike. I keep my bikes on our porch, which is up a short staircase. I'm used to just hopping up the stairs with my light little Redline. Getting •this• bike up the stairs is an ordeal. I'm a mess at it. Searching for new strategies. Considering a ramp.
The bike’s vertical storage is ingenious, but maneuvering it in & out of a tight porch, I feel like I'm parallel parking a semi truck.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary Answering @harpaa01’s question:
At first I •hated• the Enviolo CVT (continuous variable shifting). My instincts were all wrong. I rubbed a spot on my thumb raw trying to move it the ways it didn’t want to be moved.
TL;DR: You still have to stop pedaling to shift in anything but •tiny• increments. You therefore still end up shifting in discrete steps, not continuously adjust as you accelerate (as I’d wrongly imagined). BUT…
Paul Cantrell
@harpaa01
#BikeDiary …I don't know if it loosened up with usage or I just got better habits or what, but I like it just fine now. It works. It’s not futuristic and amazing, but it works well. And one •huge• advantage: you can shift back down to the lowest gear when at a complete stop, no problem. That means starting from a dead stop is perfectly fine, even if you didn't have a chance to prep for it while decelerating.
Aaron
@inthehands one factor I’m thinking about for future bikes is the ability to move from a complete stop.
E-bikes are a big improvement over standard bikes (esp with throttle) but I still find it’s a little slow to get going, especially if I wasn’t downshifting several gears before stopping.
I’ve heard CVTs can be a great solution for that; was this a concern for you? And what were your experiences?
Paul Cantrell
@mdione @harpaa01
I find myself adjusting the assist controls a fair bit as I ride. Pedestrians, narrow place? Assist 0/4 or 1/4. Needing to move through an area quickly, maybe get out of traffic, running late? 4/4 (“turbo”). Wanting to start quickly but not too quickly? 1/4 or 2/4 (“tour”) etc.
Maybe just because I’m used to a manual car transmission, this constant adjusting feels natural and even helpful.
Marcos Dione
@harpaa01 @inthehands we have a plain Yuba Kombi to which we slapped an electric kit. The 0 to moving is snappy[1], the biggest challenge it to get used to the kids changing your balance in those critical moments.
[1] maybe too much. From my non motorized bike experience, I keep a foot on the raised pedal when stopped, and the system feels the weight as force and tries to start moving. Maybe I should talk to the BRM who installed it.
Paul Cantrell
@kimu
Thanks for the hashtag tips! The upright posture just clicked for me right away. Still getting used to the limits of turning, but as far as comfort, it instantly felt right!
kimu
@inthehands welcome to the ebike world! You may also want to check out the tags #BikeTooter & #BikeNite. I ride a Tern NBD & my spouse rides a Tern Quick Haul, and they’ve helped us move from being a 1-car family to a mostly-not-driving family. The Tern upright posture takes a while used to, but once you used to it, it’s so comfortable!
David Andersen
@inthehands @harpaa01 Congratulations! I hope you continue to love it as much as it seems like you do now. I certainly have - I'm about 1.5 years into a GSD (we're a single-car family with two kids) and I still adore it.
I'd offer to be a resource but I think your choice of the belt drive addresses my only serious caution about the GSD, which is that mine chews through chains and rear cassettes.
I did learn to change my own disc brakes b/c of it and highly recommend. It's not too bad.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary Quick build notes for anyone specifically considering a Tern:
- Just get the lockstand extensions
- Just get the wide decks
- Just get the side lights
- Consider the belt drive if you’ll be riding in bad weather
- Consider a battery cover if you'll be riding in the cold
- Consider Tannus Armour inserts (fewer flats)
- All the bag, seat, rack, and passenger shelter choices are good choices, exactly what they seem to be on the web site; go based on expected usage & needs
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary Figuring out my locking / security strategy has been a joooouuurrney. I’ll post details on where I ended up later, but one big thing that’s easy to write up now:
There is bicycle insurance that’s a lot like car insurance: theft, yes, but also damage, liability, medical. Who knew? I got this one: https://velosurance.com It was a quick online application, and it will run me ~$33/month. Reasonable enough for what is gives: more expensive than email, but cheaper than car insurance!
Laura Savino
@inthehands Me too actually (down to the squeals of glee)!! I just got my GSD last week, and I can’t believe how when I arrive at home or work, I feel hopeful and energized just walking in the door. How can a commute be joyful?!
Opposite research experience, though: I heard about a place with month-to-month rentals and ordered the one model that could schlep two kids. I customized nothing and am in love 😅
Paul Cantrell
@savinola
Great minds think alike!
(Apparently many great minds, since half the models and parts seem to be backordered)
Rachael Ludwick
@inthehands We have a bunch of cargo bikes -- my retires mom has a big front box trike, partner has a pakster (front box) and we had to just give up and got a shed just for bikes (we don't have a garage.) The storage issues with ebikes are real and since they are often pricy bikes few are going to want to lock up outdoors (even if there is a place to). A lot of apartment buildings have car parking but not bike, etc. It is a real challenge. Thank you for sharing yours.
Paul Cantrell
@r343l
The GSD’s vertical storage is brilliant; once it’s in place, it’s great. It’s the steps that are the killer. Doesn’t help that the pedals come so low to the ground at their low point.
If only I had the skill/strength to fully lift the thing up the stairs….
Paul Cantrell
@marick @dimsumthinking Oh, you can very much get them in the US. They’re based in Taipei IIRC.
dimsumthinking
@inthehands all of that. My only complaint is that the striker for the bell was mounted on a flimsy spring and is long gone
Brian Marick
@dimsumthinking @inthehands You can get these bikes in the US? I idly peeked and it seemed to be a Europe bike.
dimsumthinking
@marick @inthehands yes - though at times supply is limited. I ordered mine at a local shop and they had to cancel my order so I got mine at REI. I’ve had it for four years and didn’t use it as much this year as others. As Paul said, it was the test ride that sold me. The electric is only an assist - I’m still biking but it smooths out hills and stops. I have the foldable one so I can put it in my car. It is quite heavy
Paul Cantrell
@dimsumthinking @marick
I had to wait two months to get the color I wanted, and it was totally worth it.
Still waiting on the front rack.
Honestly, I’m delighted about the wait time. I’d love to see this supply chain scale up.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary I just realized that I can take the big, bulky car key off my regular keychain. I don't need to have it in my pocket all the time.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary I notice that I greet people a lot more commuting on the Tern. Just a nod, a smile, a friendly hello — but not a thing I did inside a car. The electric part helps: I'm not out of breath. And again, the upright riding position has a surprisingly large effect. I notice more of the community. I feel like a part of the place I’m riding through.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary I also notice nature. I mean, this seems obvious, we all know that’s part of cycling, but:
Earlier in the week, along the Mississippi, a bald eagle came gliding down fast and silent and plucked a squirrel right out of the middle of the road not 50 feet from me. Full, long view of it — not out a window, no roof, just full view — as it lifted off and sailed away.
Would this have happened if I'd been in a car? Unlikely. Would I have had that view? Definitely not!
Paul Cantrell
(This is not quite as unusual as it sounds! Minneapolis and St. Paul straddle the one and only natural gorge on the Mississippi, and we have bald eagles nesting near the gorge on a regular basis. It’s right in the middle of the city, but 125+ years of conservation have kept the river gorge forested and semi-wild. It’s a pretty cool place to live.)
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary One week in, I’ve put 111 miles on the bike. I needed a car exactly once. Still love it.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary My one really big fail with the bike: the seat has a handle underneath that looks for all the world like it’s for lifting the bike.
⚠️ Do not lift a Tern by the seat handle!! ⚠️
Despite all appearances, it’s not for lifting. It's for a rear passenger to steady themselves. If you lift the bike by the seat handle, the seat top will pop out of the rails — as I found out!
It's the the one really big design fail I've found on this otherwise excellent bike.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary Searching online after I did this, apparently the problem is incredibly common. If you're somebody who's not mechanically inclined, take it to your dealer. But if you have some tools and elbow grease and mechanical know-how…apparently also take it to your dealer, because you'll bend the seat rails.
I took it to the dealer. They apologized profusely for not warning me about it. No biggie, but I did have to ride on my other bike's seat for a couple of days!
Climate Jenny 2.0
@inthehands Yes. When I’m on my e-bike I feel about 30 years younger. I’m supposed to be using it for doing local chores, but once I’m on the bike I keep discovering little side-missions, just to prolong the ride.
Paul Cantrell
@ClimateJenny
It’s so true!!
Paul Cantrell
@carstenfranke
Hooray! MSP’s bike infrastructure has improved a lot over the last 30 years, and is still getting better. One does need to plan around it a bit, and anything in the suburbs gets dicey fast. There are some horse riding lessons in our life that would be absolutely unworkable with anything but a car. Still, I know more and more people who are going carless, or driving less, or sharing one car for a whole family.
Carsten Franke
@inthehands back in Germany I biked everywhere, I did not even get a drivers license until I was 27... that all changed when I moved to St Paul 21 years ago. The distances were just too far and not easy to do on a bike. Your post changes that and I am starting to look at the options of electrical bikes. Thank you for that!
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary This from @ClimateJenny is so, so true: https://mastodon.social/@ClimateJenny/113254906789433356
I also find myself discovering side missions. Today my kid and I stopped by Minnehaha Falls just to look at the waterfall on our way back from an errand. ~17 years in this neighborhood, and I don't think we've ever •once• had a spontaneous quick visit to the falls by car.
Neighborhood businesses are definitely profiting from my spontaneous side missions too!
Carsten Franke
@inthehands yes, agreed. But it still infuriates me that bike lane markings disappear in the intersections... This is the bike path I took to school every morning... Greatly improves biker safety when it is so clearly visible in the intersection.
Paul Cantrell
@carstenfranke
Minneapolis is now frequently extending the green bikeway stripes through intersections when they are present. It really does help.
Paul Cantrell
@dimsumthinking @marick
Class 2 and 3 (throttle-controlled) e-bikes are scooters, basically lightweight Vespas, and should be treated as such (licensed, not allowed on bike trails).
Now that I’m paying attention, though, I notice that there’s a huge number of class 1 / pedelec (ie pedal assist only) bikes on the road. You just don’t notice them because they’re not obnoxious.
dimsumthinking
@marick @inthehands I so agree - I hate the electric ones that don’t require pedaling
Brian Marick
@dimsumthinking @inthehands I have Strong Opinions about the hale and hearty students who are riding their rental ebikes all around and never bothering to pedal. It’s a red letter day when I see someone pedaling an ebike.
I’m judgmental that way, at least about the Damn Kids.
Paul Cantrell
@dr2chase done and doing. Also a Bikebac.
dr2chase
@inthehands multiple keyed-alike Abus locks. Runs to some dollars. Also security nuts on wheels and seatpost.
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary I notice after a week with the cargo bike as primary transportation that I'm getting a •lot• more sun — which isn't great news for this pale-skinned redhead with a family history of skin cancer.
Anyone out there have opinions on bike helmet brims / visors / sun shades? It matters to have 360° of shade, not just the front. “Da Brim” looks promising. Anyone have experience with it? Other recommendations?
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary An important reminder here for all of us bicycle advocates from the ever-thoughtful @grimalkina:
https://mastodon.social/@grimalkina/113261303557693460
All these different forms of climate action are about each one of us doing what is possible for •us•, taking advantage of the choices we’re individually privileged enough to have. At the societal level, we need to find ways to make more choices and better choices accessible to more people — not to squeeze people into choices they don’t have.
Paul Cantrell
@michael_w_busch
Story of my life
Michael Busch
@inthehands My only suggestion is lots of sunblock.
Paul Cantrell
I chatted with my parents yesterday about the new bike. In their usual way, they’re delighted that I’m delighted. We all wondered whether there’s a similar option for them: in their 80s, and very healthy considering, but…energy, back pain, and •extreme• danger from a fall are all showstoppers for them. My 111-mile week last week was very much a product of my middle-aged health and good fortune.
What would a world look like where they could do their errands on…an e-trike, maaybe? A golf cart?
Paul Cantrell
#BikeDiary “Mass transit!!” is the obvious response, but Ft. Collins isn’t even in the outer limits of the urban density universe where mass transit could be robust enough to really serve their needs. We can lament the past century of sprawl-based urban planning, and try to correct for it as we move forward, but that’s a solution on a timescale of…what? 20 years? 50 years? more?
Decarbonization means finding “never replace the old car” choices that my parents could wholeheartedly embrace •now•.
Stu
@inthehands complete aside, but 111 miles this last week? That's excellent, must be doing wonders for your health.
I haven't regularly ridden since I was a late teen. I'm in a similar middle aged boat and I should really treat myself to that new bike I've been threatening for years. It can't replace the car, we pay lip service here by "sharing the road" with bikers, which I'm astonished doesn't cause more injuries to cyclists. But we've got miles of trails I need to avail myself of.
Paul Cantrell
@venite That’s really awesome! Thank you for bringing up the “independence” factor. It’s huge. And it’s not only a source of incredible harm for people who have to stop driving, but also a factor that keeps people in cars when they really should not be. My dad has ordered me to tell him when he’s not driving safely anymore. If that day comes, it’s going to be a tough conversation, even though he did ask.
Anna
@inthehands my dad has an e-trike! You do have to learn how to ride it, it’s different than a twowheeler. But it’s given him so much independence back. (He hasn’t been allowed to drive a car for decades because of traumatic brain damage and he was getting insecure on his two wheeler and staying home because of that.)
Paul Cantrell
@tehstu I mean, yeah, it does have me feeling fresh — but also 111 miles with electric pedal assist feels much more like “I got 30-45 minutes of walking in every day” than “I did a tough workout every day.”
I •can• ride it with low or zero assist if I want a real workout, but in practice, having the low-effort ride is what gets me on the bike in the first place, especially when I’m groggy and tired and in a hurry and just moving sounds hard.
Paul Cantrell
@shonin That looks awesome! I wish we had more choices in that kind of range — and more infrastructure that favored them.
Shonin
@inthehands I pedaled 8 miles to work and 8 miles back for years. But I was in my 30s. Eventually I shifted to the bus, then retired. Did drive the farm truck for awhile after that, but finally gave it away. I seldom get off the premises now. But the garden keeps me moving. For travel, there's Mastodon. 😉
A friend who is in his 80s has one of these and loves it, but the company is always on the brink of going belly up.
Paul Cantrell
@cxj Eventually!
Chris Johnson
@inthehands photos? 🙂
Paul Cantrell
@cxj I don’t know. My casual research suggested that the sunk carbon cost of the bike is so much lower than a car that I didn’t need to get too specific.
Chris Johnson
@inthehands Academic question: how many miles can you drive the Civic before it exceeds the GHG involved in making/shipping the bike?
Paul Cantrell
@shonin
Eek, 75mph in that sounds terrifying!
Shonin
@inthehands "Arcimoto FUV has a top speed of 75 mph (121 km/h) and an estimated city range of 102.5 miles (165 km). Arcimoto claims it achieves an efficiency of 173.7 MPGe. Also comes with a number of creature comforts including heated seats, heated grips (did we mention it has handlebars instead of steering wheel?), Bluetooth speakers, removable half doors and lockable rear storage." My friend took me for a spin in cool weather. I thought it might be like flying in an open-cockpit biplane. ☃️
Ron Parsons
Not to mention mass transit in Fort Collins seems oriented towards campus. When the put in the Mason Street bus line, I had hoped they would run lots of smaller buses east-west along major corridors and use Mason to shift north and south
Paul Cantrell
@ronpar
I had the impression that was/is the hope, but there’s neither the density nor the political capital to support it yet
Jona 🐳
@inthehands Da Brim works well for me, especially sitting upright.
Paul Cantrell
@jlundell Thanks! Just hearing from anyone who’s even laid hands on it IRL is super helpful.
Paul Cantrell
@venite @JetlagJen
Wishing you both health, mobility, and independence!!
Anna
@JetlagJen I have long covid too and agree that it would be wonderful! Lean into the ridiculousness. (Actually a lot of trikes have clever little construction things that make cycling people go “unf” when they take the time to notice.)
Jen
@venite @inthehands I've been eyeing up e-trikes. If it can give me the independent, no-car range I used to have walking before I got covid, that would be incredible. I could go to the local shops!
I had decided I couldn't justify the cost. But then I found out I'm due some inheritance money from Granny, which is roughly the price tag of the one I like. I think she'd be thrilled at the idea of me riding around on something so utterly ridiculous yet completely practical.
Jeff Miller (orange hatband)
@inthehands Alongside skin, UV eye exposure is another possible concern; my dad has been a daily bicycle rider for decades and eventually had cataract lens replacement; though it's not uncommon as a general procedure these days.
Paul Cantrell
@jmeowmeow
Thanks, that’s a good heads up!
Jeff Miller (orange hatband)
@inthehands I figured you might be aware as a mountain dweller, and you had mentioned riding as a change, so it occurred to me. My friend Megan has been on an adventure getting her electric quad cycle repaired recently and probably has thought through long-term accessibility factors for bike as routine transport, so I will point her toward your BikeDiary thread.
Paul Cantrell
@jmeowmeow
No mountain nearby here in Minneapolis, alas, but you can’t take the Rockies out of the kid even if you take the kid out of the Rockies!
Jeff Miller (orange hatband)
@inthehands oh oops, why did I misread and think of Boulder? bike town X university town I expect.
Paul Cantrell
@marick @dimsumthinking
I’m delighted to hear about the free buses being packed, and honestly I think the powered rental scooters are a brilliant last-mile addition to transit networks. They make transit so much more reasonable: if your nearest stop is 3/4 mi away but there’s an e-scooter within a block….
All of this going to require a renegotiation of road layout, rules, and etiquette. That’s a problem I welcome! But we are in the awkward transition time now.
Brian Marick
@inthehands @dimsumthinking I might look more carefully. I may be missing discrete assistance.
The Kids These Days all seem to ride powered skateboards or weird balancy things or scooter-type ebikes rather than Real Bikes. Or they ride buses. The city mass transit buses don’t collect fares at campus and nearby stops, so buses are packed between classes and the bike lanes are mostly empty.
Paul Cantrell
@donaldball @dimsumthinking @marick
That’s a fair concern! It may be that speed and/or licensure are the right checks, not power mechanism.
Donald Ball
@inthehands @dimsumthinking @marick I have a hip disability and use a class 2 ebike because I need the throttle backup. Keeping me off of bike trails would make my errands sufficiently dangerous that I wouldn’t be able to do them on my bike.
Totally agree there need to be reasonable limits on speed and behavior. Disagree strongly there should be limits on mobility aids.
Paul Cantrell
@marick @donaldball @dimsumthinking
The problem I’m thinking of here is e.g. the paved bike/ped trails along the Mississippi here in MSP, ped and bike either separated by a painted line or fully sharing the trail, no parked cars, and people in the bike lane passing pedestrians at close to 30mph only a foot away — when bikes are allowed in the road, and traffic on the road is also only doing 30mph. That’s clearly not reasonable or safe.
Brian Marick
@donaldball @inthehands @dimsumthinking I don’t know the rules around this. When I read “bike trails”, I thought of the kind of trails mountain bikes are for. Do people try to keep ebikes off of side-of-the-road, in-town bike lanes? That seems wrong.
(And are there jurisdictions that actually *enforce* rules on bike lanes? Here, we all – ebikes, bikes, skateboards, are constantly dodging cars parked in the bike lanes.)
Paul Cantrell
@marick @donaldball @dimsumthinking
And yes, there were jurisdictions that try to keep e-bikes off bike trails — even e-bikes of normal bike size going at normal bike speeds, which also is clearly unreasonable. Per another reply of mine here, there’s a whole renegotiation of road layout, rules, and etiquette that we need to work through here.
Paul Cantrell
@dimsumthinking @marick @donaldball
Many urban trails here have a nominal speed limit of 10mph, which is too low but also everyone ignored it so it didn’t matter. Now, however…
dimsumthinking
@inthehands @marick @donaldball near me some trails have speed limits for bikes.
Paul Cantrell
@donaldball @marick @dimsumthinking
Yeah, a lot of things would be a lot simpler if assholes and careless people never operated vehicles. But…
Donald Ball
@inthehands @marick @dimsumthinking Totally, and that’s super selfish and… unnecessary? One of the delights of the throttle is that I can and do always slow to a crawl to pass anyone – costs me nothing to regain speed afterwards.
Jack Norton
@inthehands i use these. There’s a half buff for summer too. Covers the face, ears, and neck. Also, car drivers pause. Funky patterns get stairs and smiles. Dark masks get double takes and deference from drivers. https://www.buff.com/us/neckwear/multifunctional-tubulars-and-snoods/coolnet-multifunctional.html
Paul Cantrell
@jackhistorynorton
Oh, hey there! I love my Buff, and I’m going to be leaning on it heavily in winter, I expect. But I don’t imagine even the cool version is comfortable over the nose and cheeks in hot weather…?
Paul Cantrell
@grapeshot
And it’s not the worst model!
Grapeshot for Harris
@inthehands If they drove a golf cart, it would look like the Villages in Florida.
Paul Cantrell
@stragu
It really is magnificent. I suspect I’m being much, much too cautious on turns with it (still), hanging on to my large-wheel habits.
Whitney Loblaw
@inthehands we hired a GSD for a few months, best ebike I've ever ridden. So powerful, stable, fun, solid and can take really tight turns.
Paul Cantrell
@stragu
I really do see the appeal of the “big bucket in front” design! If my needs were stronger on cargo and lighter on commuting, I’d have looked harder at that kind of design.
Whitney Loblaw
@inthehands once used to it, it really does feel like complete control and an extension of your body in a way, like being in one of those SF mech suits 😄
We now own a Cube cargo, it's what we wanted for having the two kids at the front (I even had 4 cousins in it once!) + carrying large items (e.g. a mattress or 6 chairs) but I do miss the tiny turning circle and the fabulous kickstand of the GSD, and my partner does not feel confident on it yet.
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