@atomicpoet I would suggest the the lack - and even opposition to - account discovery features and quote posting played a much greater role then a clash of social norms.
@WarnerCrocker I would suggest that Republican policies support their donors moreso. For instance, Meta began donating significantly donating in response to Republican policy, or ideological, demands.
@WarnerCrocker Generally speaking, I don't think we're in major disagreement. I have no issue promoting the meme of "President Musk" - as, if nothing else, it would annoy DJT, if he were ever to hear about it from within his bubble. However, I think this meme is not very deep nor does it suggest an alternative to the current situation, and (as I said) I believe it needs to be coupled with legal action. If you are going to 'engage the masses', you need ideas which are both critical and forward thinking. I recall the Pink Hat and BLM marches I attended, and as much as they criticized the 1st Trump administration they both also called for positive change. I would point out that neither one of these movements was embraced by the democratic party. I would also point out that we have had 10 days of ongoing destruction to our national government, and I have heard nothing from my liberal democratic representative, Jan Schakowsky. This is a problem, in my mind.
@WarnerCrocker I would argue that this is the core of the ideological problem. If the democrats have no principles, other than those of their donors, they can be said to be actually worse than the republican party - for at least they have ideas which they are willing to put into practice.
@WarnerCrocker FWIW: think about the trajectory of the republican party over the last 25 years. They regularly have far-right voices pushing their party further to the right, criticizing it for being too meek or not ideologically pure enough. Is there a similar dynamic on the democrats' side? Who is pushing for party or ideological reform? How large is their voice within the party? Are they listened to, as they are in republican circles?
@WarnerCrocker Thanks. Again, I am trying to sort out in my head what this looks like. What emotional appeal do you believe has not been used because it's 'not nice'? Is there one, or is it simply about reach?
The Republicans have built an enormous infrastructure over the past 40 years with think tanks, media outlets, and asserting dominance on social media. While the Democrats have relied on the 'fairness' of traditional media outlets and support from the entertainment industry. Obviously, one of these has been more effective - but also more costly (giant donors regularly shovel huge amounts of money into right-wing organizations and firms). Personally, I argue this disparity is because the Democratic party abandoned any real ideology or intellectual debate after Reagan, and focused on trying to adapt itself to various coalitions. This means there was no desire to build a framework of beliefs for Democrats, as it always needed to adapt to collation member's and donor's concerns.
If you're going to launch emotional appeals to voters - beyond simply the negative of the opposition - you need to put forth ideas behind the appeals. Simply stating "My opponents are fascists" is not good enough when the opponents ideology has made fascism something acceptable. What is the alternative?
@WarnerCrocker Cool. Thanks. So, I'll focus on rhetoric over policy, though I think the two parties have inverse relationships to the two (eg. Republicans allow rhetoric to drive policy, and Democrats let policy drive rhetoric). One of the complaints I hear regularly is the 'our' side is 'playing too fair' - that our rhetoric is too 'nice' or too meek. As I said, I've seen this rhetoric from supporters of both parties, and I am not sure what the response should be.
Personally, I don't feel there is a magical school of rhetoric which immediately sways an argument. I do believe there exists, to use a worn parlance, Memes which encapsulate certain ideas at certain times and become motivators for action. Reactionaries have spent a lot of time over the past 10 years (beginning with Gamergate) focusing on meme production through trial and error. I am not sure if this rhetorical strategy is what you mean by 'not playing fair'? Overall, I suppose, I am trying to understand what rhetoric that doesn't 'play fair' looks like.
@WarnerCrocker I hear this a lot - I heard this a lot from Trump supporters for the last 10 years - and I'm still not sure what it means. Can you give examples?
@WarnerCrocker I think you need to do both. Each court case should be accompanied by a media campaign. Each outage should generate a court case. I feel you need to do it all
@WarnerCrocker I don't disagree, but at the moment a large part of the problem is velocity - "move fast - break things". And it's only in the courts that things can be slowed to allow consequences to catch up and for people to become aware of what's happening
@WarnerCrocker as Josh Marshall points out, what Musk is doing breaks several federal laws. Now, do Trump or Musk care? No. But until Democrats start bringing these violations to the courts, they're going to continue unabated. Standing around and bemoaning the electoral loss does nothing to stop or slow the illegal destruction of our govt.
@WarnerCrocker@Dhmspector My partner - my facebook interface - currently shows him as unfollowed. So either, this is being done for a subset of people, or the system is not done updating yet, or it has been pulled back.
@WarnerCrocker You are probably correct; however, there are two things to consider: 1) The train has left the station and some kind of extraordinary intervention will be required to stop it. 2) There are competing monied interests here: while TikTok investors are fighting against a shutdown, both Musk, and, particularly, Zukerberg are salivating at the idea of grabbing former TikTok users and data. It's interesting to note that Shou Chew (TikTok CEO), Musk, and Zukerberg will all be seated on the dais for Trump's inauguration.
@octade@jdw Google moving to 90 days was a bad idea. Moving to 6 days is insane. This is going to lead to users ultimately accepting questionable certs (which becomes a major security issue) or users not being able to access services.
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