It is extremely easy to be rich, or a CEO and find yourself surrounded by people who will tell you whatever you want to hear.
If you are not stupid, you'll quickly find out its not "what you want to hear" but "what they think you want to hear" - and you can't stop noticing it.
Musk, simply because he fired a huge percentage of the twitter staff - is very likely the type of rich guy that wants to do stuff and is sick of people telling him lies.
Because of that, he's not likely to lean into censorship to soothe his ego - he's more likely refreshed to have people correct him, to a degree.
I hope your right but his reactions thus far betray a narcissistic injury. Calling immigration skeptics "retards" makes me think he really did enjoy having yes men around him
@HAPPYPOTAMUS absolutely this is a narcissistic injury. But the key to success is to being able to take loses and keep going, and the evidence is overwhelming.
@doctorsex correct, the economic incentive is why it has gotten to where it is.
But the H1B and illegal migrant issue is tied, which is why we are where we are.
But - Musk is also in the position to get what he really wants ( top 0.1% talent - because HE can afford it ), and use that to starve other companies. So he can both do what people feel is right, come off as the good guy, and have a business win out of it.
@sickburnbro@doctorsex I think this is an L for Elon but I agree that many here are too uncharitable towards him atm. I doubt he genuinely wants hordes of third worlders to be imported into the US anyways.
@sickburnbro@HarryNuggets@doctorsex There's a line between calling out jews for bad things they do (and there's a decent amount of such things) and having jews living rent free in your brain.
@rein@HarryNuggets@doctorsex this is why I talk about "judiazers" - it's an old term and extremely valid. It's a way of talking about behavior which is what most people really want, and you don't need to go down rabbit holes.
@SuhDude@HAPPYPOTAMUS I think it's going to end up ok - the people like plzbepatient on xitter are willing to say "yeah dude, we can let in the top %0.001 of engineers so you can make your rockets, but that's just not what is happening here, and we are not going to let this H1B abuse continue so you can *maybe* get those people here"
@doctorsex@sickburnbro People should admit that even if this immigration move is optimal, we still should not do it. That the reason is ethnic, and that if our representatives do not do as we ask, then we should stop just asking.
@yockeypuck@doctorsex@jmw150 it's "well, maybe the best pickeball coach ISNT in the US!" or something. It's not even a non-sequitor, it's a bad excuse to try and paper over the insanity of our H1B
Thankfully the abuse has gotten bad enough that it can't be excused, and with what has happened just in Canada, you can't pretend it will all be ok.
@sickburnbro He's removing "verification" from anyone well-known who disagrees with him by citing facts and personal-experiences - is using "the algorithm" to suppress speech which the "un-verified" like - and if you are NOT well-known, and just tell the truth of your own experience, he Shoah's your account completely. He also disabled "community notes" for himself.
He knows he can't win the argument. They fired over 100K of us last year, while demanding more Treason-Visas, and "can't find American tech workers" my ass. We are FAR BETTER qualified than our replacements, per studies which examined this question.
This is how leftists act - "former" (sic) democrats or not. They think they can "invent" reality to suit their interests.
@DeezMistaReez@jmw150@PopulistRight I mean the most straightforward assumption of what is going on is that pro-invaders are conducting an op and mass reporting people to get their checkmarks held up.
@Thickasabrick@doctorsex@sickburnbro If we razed all of his business buildings, he might realize that this is not some internet argument where you can just block people and say you have won.
@jmw150@Thickasabrick@doctorsex he himself came in with H1B, but all this shows is that H1B might have worked as a policy towards other european nations, but doesn't work for china and india.
@doctorsex@Thickasabrick@jmw150 SpaceX and Tesla are printing money, it simply doesn't add up that a company that is swimming in cash would be fretting over cheap labor.
while Elon is not a WASP--we would never have him as a member in our country club--he is an illustration of how rich people are incredibly cheap. they really are like this. they avoid paying their bills unless their creditors are powerful and pay their help as little as possible. they think that everyone is out to get a free lunch from them (often this is true). because they don't actually work in the everyday economy, they have no idea how much things really cost so they think this is all reasonable.
@FreeinTX@doctorsex@Thickasabrick@jmw150 yes, and many businessmen knew this when there was the push for outsourcing. Many businesses suffered greatly moving production to china. Many extremely racists and unspeakable lessons were learned.
Then they started trying moving them all to the US, but now that is failing and this is why we are finally having this conversation.
@sickburnbro@doctorsex@Thickasabrick@jmw150 The issue with Mexican production, and I've seen this first hand, is getting the goods to the US market cheaply and safely. Turns out, when you try to move a bunch of costly goods through a shithole like Mexico, the shipments get interfered with. Drugs, humans, every other thing that gets smuggled, end up on supply trucks and trains and get intercepted, causing huge delays. Lots of shipments simply get looted on their way to the border. It doesn't take long for the criminal element of Mexico to learn of a new supply line and start doing all the criminal things that they do to benefit from that new line.
@doctorsex@FreeinTX@Thickasabrick@jmw150 it's failing because when it was displaying whites running 7-11s, no-one really (unfortunately) cared too much, but with stuff like engineering and medicine, it's become painfully obvious that the work quality isn't there. You can pay an indian 80k who "has a good resume" but they are going to perform worse than a fresh out of college white boy.
It's *failing* because people like musk want to pay electrical engineers with years of industry experience 80k for >60 hour work weeks. That is why he wants to keep/expand h-1b; because jeets will take that.
@doctorsex@PodunkPotato we don't actually know. The best answer I had is that he thinks "I got here through H1B, I don't want to make it impossible for people like me to get here, to work for me."
It isn't about talent *at all* though. It's about cheap labor. Musk wants a literal slave caste of people who will work 80 hour weeks for half the pay. That's *it*. If you don't understand that, you have to be incredibly stupid. Or you do understand it and you're dishonest.
@doctorsex@PodunkPotato The default reason is centered around cheaper labor yes. But given that spacex already pays higher than industry average even not factoring in other compensations, it doesn't fit in this case.
When you are interested in attracting top talent, you already have to be willing to pay more than their probable market value, because those people understand they are in demand, so it doesn't fit;
If you are looking for the average engineer, lowering average compensation could work out for you.
@BroDrillard Of course he's not taking it well, he's getting absolutely mauled and didn't even realize the beating he was walking into.
You don't almost go bankrupt blowing up rockets without being able to stomach failure, though - so that is what I am looking to with what is happening here.
>he's more likely refreshed to have people correct him
Lol. Sounds like you haven't looked at Twitter during Christmas. He's not taking it well at all. Retarded tantrum is a better description of his reaction.
@PodunkPotato@doctorsex I understand the fear of "oh god, I can't get the next Van Braun" but the simple answer for this is what Steve Sailer and others have suggested.
The advantage of taking this tack is that it avoid a lot of hurt feeling and traps. Just say "h1b is unfortunately irreversibly compromised, so we are going to 'close the loopholes' ( this is a political favorite ) and start fresh"
@doctorsex@PodunkPotato I mean, I don't know if people haven't been paying attention or something, but he, for better or worse, has been saying this for a while.
@jmw150@sickburnbro@doctorsex@FreeinTX@Thickasabrick Just like running a cash register by simply dialing in the numbers by people not being able to do any math themselves on the fly. It's a bad standard for dumbing down the workforce and/or population, you're stripping layers of confidence from the process.
@jmw150@white_male@doctorsex@FreeinTX@Thickasabrick it certainly doesn't *seem* hard, but many people are unable to do it today. Don't know if it's education, diet, tv? But yes, it is frustrating that most cashiers are worse than the self serve registers now.
Bring back the 55 year old ladies running lines, they got shit done.
The thing is that ad revenue has become really shitty and companies have to spend huge amounts of time and money to monitor people in order to get the info companies want to pay for.
The whole charging for X seems to be an attempt at getting higher quality data from consumers a different way, like how credit card companies give a cut to customers to have high credit scores.
@s2208@sickburnbro@PodunkPotato@doctorsex I think Musk wants to go after Google (ad revenue) and Apple. So he's planning on bringing in a lot of Jeets. Maybe make a silicon valley competitor in Austin.
@Paleface@PodunkPotato@doctorsex I've yet to see any jewish sources say he is jewish. The simplest answer for why he would do this in a negative light is that he's just looking for cheap labor like the rest of Big Tech.
Yes, it's absolutely fucked up that there is so much jewish power in this country they can make the richest man go to Auschwitz for a struggle session.
But all I read out of this is him saying he knows they have power.
The quarterly report is the MO, btw. Usually it would be a manager/director who does it to get his cost-cutting bonus and bail out before things inevitably sink. Once they're in, hiring practices suddenly switch to co-ethnics only. It's exactly the same with chinks, including the failure. There's no way a CEO isn't aware of that.
@Paleface@PodunkPotato@doctorsex this whole question is why this whole situation is wild. Musk in theory wants to have a highly competent company to get to mars. The whole idea of him trying to save money doesn't jive well with how much money he is throwing at the mars rocket.
If he were merely trying to make a shit ton of money, he could just iterate on the falcon 9 and relax.
That works for a quarterly report, but you can't run a functioning company on it. Elon is either an idiot or lying, but it frames the debate as if indians are capable. Again, I reject this premise.
Obsequiousness from employees, I could believe before I would even entertain the idea of productivity per dollar. The idea that indians are even capable of replacing our populations is somehow getting baked into this cake and I reject it wholesale. Employers have to see this by now too.
@LovecraftEnthusiast@Paleface@PodunkPotato@doctorsex Right, but again, if you are paying above market rate, you are getting substantially less benefit and thus you're helping your competitors way more going to bat for something that unpopular.
Even if he hired every employee in his company at 100% above market he still benefits from cheap labor because his benefactors do. He is massively subsidized by the US government and cheap labor even in this scenario is him helping to payback his dues and sustaining the system that props him up.
There are costs you can cut and costs you cant cut.
This is all superflous though, if Musk had been mispeaking or misunderstood he could make even one post to clarify. Instead we are on half a week of doubling down and he just did a twitterspace on his alt calling americans ungrateful crackheads. Hes not being misunderstood, hes melting down and seething because we all understand him just fine, and reject his plan for America
@doctorsex@LovecraftEnthusiast@Paleface@PodunkPotato@Quentel it's hard to say exactly, but the "survivorship bias plane" image someone poasted earlier seems like a reasonable answer - he knows, personally, some of those very highly talented H1Bs from silicon valley. There are some very smart people there.
This is why I've mentioned repeatedly that it ultimately doesn't matter what he says, this is a battle he can't win, because H1B now has a undefensibly corrupt history.
The best way to find out things like this would be to ask them what they think about outsourcing, imo. And in general they are not hot on indian teams anymore, and outsourcing in general.
Then he should point to these examples he knows- this could be great pr for him is he's got the talented millionth percentile of delhi churning out great stuff at his companies- but he's not doing that. He's having an unprecedented public meltdown and continues to offer nothing but vague allusions to "talent" and unambiguous insults to actual Americans.
Bro, you really missed a lot of context on this. People posted the official H1B documents on Twitter. Elon has H1B engineers working at Tesla in Palo Alto for $80k...
@doctorsex@BroDrillard@PodunkPotato Tesla only has a few hundred software developers. 200 x 25k = 500k. Not even worth thinking about for a company of that market cap. It's more likely they are hiring using H1B for those positions for co-ethnic reasons.
They have a much bigger problem with the UAW. But it seems like the way they are fighting against the UAW is keeping pay high: archive.is/87FIp