I know that lots of folks here don't like Bluesky (and I understand most of the reasons why), But now that it's open, I tried to explain the reasons why I am excited about it and hope it succeeds. https://www.techdirt.com/2024/02/06/bluesky-opens-up/
@mmasnick Bluesky might be great for a Twitter replacement but, for many, the teardown of Twitter means we can move towards something else beyond a centralized environment.
Many, like me, have gone out at stood-up their own Mastodon instance and are either running their own single/small instance or hosting for others and working the economics and community fun around that. It's no longer trying to play with Insta or X influencers or ballers or whatever. Such a breath of fresh air.
@mmasnick Main reason I have avoided Threads is because of Meta is run by Zuck, who I do not trust, and they track you across different sites, even when you're not using one of their apps. What kind of tracking, collecting personal data is Bluesky doing?
Bluesky has a very active Mean Boys Club. There's an account I followed on Twitter. On Threads, he presents himself as he did on Twitter. On BS, he engages in QT pile ons.
That's kind of my take on BS. Threads got the news, and BS got the mean.
@seachanger@Hey_Beth oddly, that's the reverse of my experience. People here were much meaner to me for a while, though it's calmed down. And I haven't see the meanness on Bluesky. Just goes to show how people end up with very different experiences on different apps.
@Hey_Beth@mmasnick exactly. Not enough of these explainers and analyses look at how twitter’s cruelty culture made a clean leap over to bluesky. many of us are over here on mastodon simply because the cruelty got out of hand and for whatever masto’s numerous flaws, there is at least a lot of genuine authenticity and friendliness
@jbenjamint they're experimenting with value add business models, like if you register a domain name for your username. I expect more similar things to continue (optional fees for value added services)
@rbos having spoken with them about the challenges of decentralized moderation, I actually think they've given it way more thought than most. But, of course, implementation is everything.
@mmasnick I'm skeptical of their survival - they have yet to engage with many of the really hard problems of moderation in a federated world, and with governance and funding as they move away from centralization.
But that said, the enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. I'll cheer them on to the extent that they don't become my enemy. :)
I wish them all the luck engaging with these problems and hope they succeed and become part of the wider federated social media space.
@o_simardcasanova@paninid@mmasnick@Hey_Beth idk, I’m a loud and kind of annoying woman on the internet who totally advocates quote toots to my 3000+ followers, and i’m very critical of old mastodon splainers etc and literally have never experienced the kind of group hostility and dehumanization that drove me off bluesky within a few weeks.
Mastodon is honestly the first platform I’ve been on where I don’t feel endlessly harassed by reply guys and men who explain things to me
One of the worst experiences I ever had on social media was when I said that I have a legitimate use case for quote posts on Mastodon
On top of the harassment, the dog piling, and the ableism, I received a strike from my instance because, and I quote, "if you don't like Mastodon, you don't have to use it”. I wasn't saying I don't like Mastodon, I was saying quote posts would be useful for me.
@mmasnick The only good thing about Bluesky is that it looks very similar to Twitter so there is a hope that it will cause a mass migration off of X for the diehards.
I have found the feature set to be very incomplete as compared to Twitter.
@mmasnick@jbenjamint Interesting. I think the differing financial models will forever delineate Bsky and Mastodon, and who is attracted to each.
Here I donate to cover server costs. It’s my choice to pay my way, and I feel some responsibility towards my server, and the network at large (I also donate to Mastodon).
But if Bluesky is for profit? Well then it’s their responsibility to price it to make profit. I’m not going to pay something unless they make me.
@mmasnick@jbenjamint My point being, I think it being for profit, no matter any underlying decentralisation, will mean a culture not unlike Twitter. As opposed to Mastodon always maintaining the culture of a self-reliant community.
@mmasnick One small thing, Mike: “With Bluesky’s algorithmic choice, anyone can make or share their own algorithms and users can choose what algorithms they want to use”
Not anyone can do it. Only developers, at this stage. I’m sure they’ll build a UI for it into the app at some point, but right now you need to be able to code if you want to make your own algorithms.
@Brendanjones i mean, that's just wrong. Skyfeed exists already and is a third party service that makes it super easy to create feeds. Lots of people do it. https://skyfeed.app/
@paninid@mmasnick@seachanger@Hey_Beth That’s very dismissive of you. You don’t know what he means by mean. I’ve seen death threats here, that pretty much made an admin leave the Fedi. Racism is just scolding either
@Brendanjones@jbenjamint i don't disagree with this. it could very well become that Masto is the NPR of the world, relying on donations, and Bluesky could find a place as a for profit media operation with a supportive following. I don't see any problem with that.
@mmasnick Yeah and Mastodon *kinda* has QT, since almost every third party Masto app and interface support it. 😉 Honestly I’d be fine if BSky supported video embeds to Mastodon, then I’d just post the video here and link from BSky. Sorta like how I repost good posts from BSky and bookmark them here.
Agree to disagree on the search. I’ve had multiple cases where I couldn’t find a post from someone on BS and was able to find it here. HOWever, the latest BS version seems improved.
But they've talked about business models in terms of providing additional add on paid services (which they already do with domain registrations for unique usernames). There is likely to be more like that as well.
And, if you don't think it's "conversational" um, I don't know what to tell you. It is.
@mmasnick@mike@flipboard.social Seriously, what's the path to monetization for Bluesky? This article sounds incredibly naive to my cynical ears. Bluesky is a platform built for social media broadcasters and their audience. It's a streaming service more than a conversation. Jack didn't build Bluesky because he read your paper, he built it because he needed a version of Twitter that would be easier leverage for paid content.
@havn@mike i know, firsthand, that they very, very, very seriously tried to see if they could make activitypub work for what they wanted to do and concluded it just didn't fit what they needed.
And I see a couple of different protocols as a bonus, as each pushes the other to do better things.
@mmasnick@mike My biggest issue with Bluesky, isn't their ideas (some aren't great - but some are). It's that they chose to fragment open social media, instead of improving the standard already backed by the W3C.
It's like if the comic in the article said: "Isn't it cool how these islands are connected? Well, instead of connecting to them, we started a new island chain!"
I fear two smaller networks has a lower chance against the silos than one more robust. 😕
@Chigaze that's an interesting take. Hasn't been my experience (I've had way more in depth conversations there than here), but is definitely a reasonable concern if that's what you're experiencing.
@mmasnick So far I think Bluesky is doing a great job of being a more user friendly Twitter. As a Twitter iteration though, it feels less like a place for conversation and more for memes, shitposts, and watching various grades of celeb banter. These have their place of course, but they are not a meal.
I do like the idea of user algorithm’s but before that I’d like to see the default feed behaviour vastly improved. Right now it’s frustrating as hell.
@mmasnick It may depend on what you want to talk about. For my part being on a Canadian based Mastodon server has made it fairly easy to connect with people local to me and other Canadians. With federation I can also go looking for other people to talk to without trying to sift a firehose. :)
@mmasnick@mike@flipboard.social You certainly are in the habit of telling people they're wrong. From your point of view as a social broadcaster, it seems conversational because one to many is what you're looking for and the experience you're looking to replace from Twitter. I've read more on the proposed business model, and I'm not convinced that selling ancillary services is adequate. I see paid content in their future, and yes I could be wrong..
@LittleTokyo@mike@thecanadian.social@mike@flipboard.social follow better people? Or use different feeds to find better people? Or use the tools they give you to filter out stuff like that? I've yet to see a single request for money or anything like what you appear to be seeing.
@mmasnick@mike@thecanadian.social@mike@flipboard.social I find a whole lot of the below and folks asking for money because of this or that hardship. I’ve also found interesting things to read as well but there’s a whole lot of distracting noise that seems to take precedence over meaningful communication.
@LittleTokyo@mmasnick@mike@thecanadian.social a lot of Mikes in this convo! For the record Mike Masnick has been equally supportive and critical of both Mastodon and Bluesky. I think both have approaches that are useful to understand and learn from especially as Threads federates which dwarfs both. Activitypub has a ton of momentum but there are some things Bluesky is doing that will be important for scale especially regarding moderation. Clearly both networks have their fair share of trolls.
@mike@flipboard.social@LittleTokyo@mmasnick I'm not as up to speed as I should be on Blue Sky moderation, but at one time the personal tools were lacking. If you're referring to algorithmic or ai based moderation, I'd be wary. Obviously with the gates now open, they'll start to be tested. I can see Bluesky gaining critical mass and then being sold. I have thoughts on AT but I'm not an expert so I'll digress.
@mike@thecanadian.social@mike@flipboard.social@LittleTokyo one of the reasons they kept it closed so long was to build up moderation efforts. They now have a team of people and a bunch more tools, including some they've begun to open source.
@mmasnick@mike@thecanadian.social@LittleTokyo This concise post will bring you up to speed on "composable moderation"... a really good idea that should happen on #ActivityPub too. This is definitively not something that should stay exclusive to Bluesky.
Also, check out this excellent panel with Yoel Roth, Jay Grader and Mike Masnick.
@Cyberpreppy yup. in total agreement on that. I don't mind nostr either. Let there be a bunch of experiments in building decentralized social media to figure out what works best.
@JustinH@rysiek there's a lot in there that's just... wrong. But I'm not in the business of going through and correcting everyone's errors on this as it just seems to get people to yell at me. You can believe what you want.
tl;dr, BlueSky is not really decentralized, instance owners have no actual control over moderation. The biggest player (the company BlueSky) effectively controls everything.
@mmasnick Pleasantly surprised about two aspects: the ability to tie your handle to your domain, and the whole notion of selecting your sort algo. Pretty decent implementations for both, from what I’ve seen.
Needs more people there though, particularly with my interests. Seems like a wasteland out there.
@cydonian hasn't been that way in my experience, but I imagine that's highly dependent on your interests. Have you tried looking for feeds relevant to your interests? There are many thousands of feeds to choose from?
Yeah. I'm not getting in line to ride that bus. They're going to need at least a year of non-jackassery before I'll even take a peek. Fool me once, shame on you...
A bit late to this thread - just curious if anyone knows what is in the pipeline for Activity Pub - what are they actively working on to adjust the protocol? Anything in light of the new competing protocols?