Notices by h4890 (h4890@liberdon.com), page 2

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 negative rights, as well as how does interact within the framework of libertarianism, is the reason for a lot of misunderstanding.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 of positive vs negative rights. As a negative right, the NAP cannot be "imposed". It is just the right to not be attacked.

So there is literally nothing to be imposed, compared with a positive right such as the right to "income" or what ever nonsense the left works with.

Should someone transgress, you are within your right to defend yourself.

I fear that our differring definitions of egoism, individualism and positive and

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 such as Stirners for instance, or some forms of anarchism.

When it comes to libertarianism, I'd argue that the majority do subscrib to the NAP.

However!

And this is a very important point... the NAP is first of all a result of game theory, which shows that it is the superior strategy for achieving stable social interactions and a prospering society. The NAP is a requirement for markets to work.

The second point is that

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

Disagree. There is not standard definition, and that is beside the point. When I argue, I do it based on my definition, which I have given, and in light of that, any other definition is irreleveant to the argument.

I disagree with your definition of individualism. In my book, you are talking about egoism, which in severe cases is a psychological illness.

When it comes to limits, there are none in some forms of individualism

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 @toiletpaper

I disagre, softly. It can lead to egalitarianism. The reason is envy. It depends on the individualist community, the size of the community and quality of its participants.

You might remember my theory of the eternal recurrence and cycle. Monarchy->aristocracy->democracy->individualism (the point of ultimate decentralization)->monarchy/aristocracy.

And on and on it goes. The idea is that we moved from scattered

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 @toiletpaper

Very interesting. Well, in that case, I was probably inspired by Plato, and just forgot about it, with the slight modification, of bolting on extreme decentralization to that cycle.

But stepping back from the details, I think that cycles does make sense, as long as human beings insist on not evolving their

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 @toiletpaper

What is interesting to think about is if there is an evolving into the superman, or if it would be more of a revolution?

Since mind has now defeated matter, an argument could be made that Nietzsches übermensch has now moved into Transhumanist circles.

To give you one example... some billionaires, millionaires and libertarians are now modifying their genes with treatments like minicircle.io.

@lain That's amazing! I'm so happy for them! 😀

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

Sounds reasonable. There was lots of debate about the interpretation of old jewish customs within early christianity, and among other things, if non-jews should be allowed into the sect or not.

So yes, I agree that there were liberal influences in early christianity.

It is also interesting to note that once it established hegemony, it then quickly crushed all opposition.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

This seems very plausible to me. I would also not be surprised if pre-silk road silk trading also brought influences from the east.

Reminds me, I saw a documentary once that argued that Jesus spent some years in a monastery in india, and then found "god" and returned to spread his teachings.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

I think the clue for where to look is the fact that greece had bureaucracy, and that there are proven interactions between greece and india, and therefore, asia.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

I think this is fairly common knowledge. Christianity is influenced by, as far as I know, platonism, stoicism, judaism, and a pinch of persian religion, and like we spoke about the other day, potentially some hinduism/buddism as well.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

Well, regardless of the method, I am convinced that the "core" of religion in most cases, is a psychedelic/ego-death experience, that gave the guy experiencing it a deep joy and extacy. That then fueled all the imagining and stuff surrounding it, and once it (religion) graduated to become a people mind control tool, that's when all the bizarre rules come into place, the hierarchy and the clergy.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

An ultimate purpose is a thorny philosophical problem, but there is no denying that it seems, from our point of view, that nature does seem to reach more and more complexity, higher levels of consciousness, and through science and technology, giving us more and more power over the universe.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84

Yes... there are constraints we all have to deal with. And within those contraints, that's where we create meaning.

That's what I take from religions. They have accidentally discovered techniques and methods, which serve to increase meaning and happiness.

I disconnect those techniques from their fairy tale origins, and try to apply them to myself.

So far, it is working out well for me.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 True. But I also agree with Nietzsche, that by moving the rewards from this life to the next, they basically negate the value of life, and people risk wasting their lives for nothing instead of living it.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 I think there is some correlation here with material wealth. The higher the material wealth, the lower the participation in organized religion.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 science and modern education does play a role here as well. That sounds very reasonable.

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 Your last sentence is exactly why I say "organized religion" because I do feel that there is a growing need, in some corners of society for "spirituality" or perhaps better said... "meaning". As for wealth, I agree with your reasoning, but I think it could be a complex problem. It could be _both_ science as you say, and the fact that there's no felt need for a deity, since everyone has what they need to survive. But yes,

@amerika @korsier @Cosmic @cjd @FourOh-LLC @verita84 Yes, this hits on the question of meaning. Jung thought this was a universal need for everyone. I disagree. I _do_ agree that this is something that is looked for by many, but I also think that this is not for everyone. Some have a fundamental core based on power, some sex, some truth, some meaning (in the spiritual sense), some just live life and have no need for meta-cognition or these types of questions.