@lxo I honestly prefer calling it GNU+Linux because it's kinda exhausting to explain that you're supposed to say the slash. I think the name "GNU/Linux" makes it common to omit the slash, rarely anyone gets it right in my experience and there's no escaping it, it's spreading like wildfire even between those who prefer calling the system GNU/Linux.
Well, how do we distinguish between GNU systems and BSDs? And FSF doesn't seem to recognize Alpine as a GNU system either (the #justlinux section of their FAQ). Same goes to the Alpine devs: they recognize Debian and such as GNU+Linux but think that Alpine isn't GNU+Linux. IMHO, something is from a different operating system family when it requires compatibility layers to launch software from other types of OSs (like with Windows software requiring Wine).
Have other OS families ever switched C libraries tho? Coreutils?
“Okay, Android is also Linux so I call it ‘Desktop Linux.’”
“Okay, Sailfish OS exists. Then I’ll call it ‘Linux-based.’”
“Okay, nobody understands what I’m talking about. Fine, RMS, I’ll call it GNU/Linux but it doesn’t mean you’re right.”
“Holy shit, I didn’t mean that Linux is part of GNU! It’s ‘GNU SLASH Linux!’ Holy shit, I can’t take it anymore! Fine! ‘GNU+Linux!’ There we go! It’s final!”
“Goddamnit, everyone hates me now. They don’t understand what I went through. People on freesoftwareextremist.com and Free Software Foundation do understand me. These are the only friends I have now… I’m so alone…”
It seems like they more or less pick the pseudoarguments from the same list and cycle between them. Everything those who oppose the name say was already addressed by Stallman in one form or another.
@lxo BTW, I wanted to ask: what is the most fundamental component that distinguishes a GNU+Linux system from non-GNU Linux-based systems? Is it glibc? Is it coreutils? Because Void is based on musl libc but has coreutils while it is also possible to replace coreutils with Busybox (though I haven't seen any distro that did that while keeping glibc). What component makes GNU+Linux GNU+Linux? And how much does a C library affect the system? And how do you personally call GNU-like Linux-based systems?
@lxo Libre software advocates and GNU supporters are always to blame, are always called bullies. My position is the one that always gets the most hate, even if I did nothing hurtful to others. Sometimes I do wish I was left alone.
One does wonder if the reputation that libre software supporters have really reflects reality or is simply made up. In my experience, what is often attributed to the supporters of FSF are the qualities of OSI supporters themselves. The libre software community gives me the impression of passionate people who really love what they're doing and just want to share their passion with others. @webmink
Gender is a spook. People are essentially amorphous blobs of cells limited by their ability of self-rearrangement. I for example want to turn myself into a living black goo so I can morph myself into Godzilla and terrorize the population.
As I remember, DFSG is a bit stricter than OSD. I say Debian is the only distro that’s not FSF-approved that is commited to user freedom. Like, it still uses “GNU/Linux” as its subtitle. Meanwhile, Fedora insistantly refuses to do it. If only they had a 100% libre GNU/Linux-libre spin, they already have GNU/Hurd spin so I’m sure they can add that one too. Then I’m sure they can reunite with FSF once again.
Oh, and they should remove Firefox. GNU Icecat is love. GNU Icecat is life.
@lxo If the game's artwork is proprietary does it make the whole game proprietary or is the term "non-libre" more appropriate? That's the same confusion I have with Android. There are parts of it which are libre and others that are proprietary, it is confusing.
@lxo The biggest problem with autistic people here isn't that they're autistic but that they lack self-control and thus tend to pick fights where it could have been avoidel and then make themselves and everyone else disappointed. Noone is watching over them, noone trains them on how to have a civil dialogue with people. And not like they seem to learn or even bother to learn on their mistakes, they're bound to forever repeat the same mistakes, making the place less enjoyable for everyone. They take the position that everyone should be considerate of them while never being considerate of others, thus being a chore to deal with. How are we going to have enjoyable conversations when one side has lots of obligations to fulfill while the other has none? It's just not fun. @Ciaraioch
@lxo Autistic people may think that they are the ones who are hated and misunderstood but in my experience it is me who is often hated and misunderstood, and AFAIK I'm not even autistic. So is it the neurotypicals who are hating on autists or the autists who are hating on neurotypicals? It's both. It goes both ways, not just in one direction. @Ciaraioch
@lxo I was thinking about video games lately. They are a special case because they are both software and art. Certainly software is interchangeable but art, if we are to agree with sir Proudhon and Mr. Stallman, is an irreplaceable piece of beauty valuable in itself. Now, video games are neither just software nor just art, instead being in-between. The engine and the game genre are clearly the mechanistic parts, the artstyle, the universe and the characters are unique and hard to replace and the gameplay mechanics and level design require creativity but have very discernable patterns unless the game is eclectic or experimental. Art, aside from that pesky copyright system, isn't harmful. But proprietary software can be malware. I wonder: how should we approach proprietary games? What about emulated games?
I think that if there were lots of libre games of many genres available of good quality, proprietary games would be a "worthy sacrifice." Another suggestion for the popularization of libre games would be having one libre game launcher. I saw such project somewhere. Forgot its name. Oh, and obviously, MORE HIGH-QUALITY LIBRE GAMES TO DISTRO REPOS. There is nothing simpler than installing a game with your package manager of choice.
@lxo The only major problem is that a third-party server is always a single point of failure, no matter how nicely it may present itself. If some authority requests some sensitive data from the server owner you are essentially defenseless unless the server owner is that principled to resist gag orders. Affinity groups on the other hand do not require you to even know each other. In decentralized self-hosted networks affinity groups are a circle of friends you hang out with. You do not need to trust each other, you give them only the data you want to give them, nothing more. Unlike with federated servers. @jmangt
@lxo In my experience with talking to people, P2P is a bit confusing. They either confuse it for client-queue-client or think of something like BitTorrent or perhaps I2P. I think F2F is a more precise term that describes a very specific type of P2P: https://wikiless.northboot.xyz/wiki/Friend-to-friend?lang=en @tio
No, I meant GNU/Linux-libre. True, there may be some non-libre software in some distro but so far I haven't seen one, all GNU/Linux-libre distro developers are committed to software freedom.
…so I don’t think it’s about binaries vs sources, it’s about whose freedoms are on focus…
I’m aware of this. What I meant is that libre software advocates care about whether the binaries respect the user’s four freedoms while the Open Source advocates are concerned only about the sources being available to share and modify. It’s precisely because the Open-Source advocates don’t care about the binaries respecting software freedom that they allow malicious features in the binaries or do not release their modified versions’ sources for commercial gain. We have seen it with Tivo and Google locking up users’ devices and many companies like Sony or Nintendo taking libre software, modifying it and never contributing back.
The binaries are a major component of software and thus in order to be considered libre software they must respect user freedom. It doesn’t matter that they are licensed under a libre software license if they do not guarantee user freedom anyway.
The difference between Open Source and libre software is actually quite clear. Open Source is about the source, libre software is about the binaries. Consider these statements:
“Is there an open-source version of this program?”
“Can I easily aquire (for free or for a named price), run, modify and share original or modified binaries and their source code however I want?”
The second one excludes Tivoization, DRM and proprietary blobs and binaries. Android is Open Source. But it isn’t libre. Replicant is. GNU/Linux-libre is.
Штирнерист-трансгуманист, GNU/джихадист, мета-анархист, бывший анкап. Не люблю фемок, альтрайтов, неонацистов и мастододиков. Имею непопулярные взгляды, в том числе частично согласен с теорией великого замещения, но крайне несогласен с её выводами. Хайль Штирнер.Stirnerite transhumanist, GNU/Jihadist, meta-anarchist, ex-ancap. Dislike libfems, the alt-right, neo-Nazis and Mastodorks. Have some unpopular opinions, including partly agreeing with the Great Replacement Theory but strongly disagreeing with its conclusions. Heil Stirner.#anarchism #egoism #PostLeft #AcidCommunism #UserFreedom #nobot