@lxo@jas >for lack of a better term to describe that practice, I keep on calling it Tivoization. Digitally handcuffed hardware that is designed to make it cryptographically impossible for the user to control the software, or something similar, is the only way to accurately describe it without causing confusion.
Describing something that Tivo didn't do, as "Tivoization" is clearly confusion.
Handcuff-ization or similar seems much clearer.
>you could say it's digital handcuffs in the other components. but it's not the program itself stopping you from doing things. Yes, the program is digitally handcuffed, rather than the program having digital handcuffs.
>e.g. on Wikipedia, is pretty clear and well-referenced: it's about blocking the execution of modified versions, without any mention to other programs' refusing to function along with the modification. I actually checked the references on realizing that the article was wrong - most of the references are either unrelated, or contain the complete opposite of what the article claims.
@djsumdog@mac_ack Nanya for the most part just puts RAM chips into RAM PCBs, except for less markup and they cannot offer much better prices if the RAM chips themselves are priced sky high.
@lxo@jas >on them work exactly like Tivo-supplied binaries and signatures (by a Tivo-controlled secret key): I don't know if confident if Tivo ever setup such a scheme - do you have a link to exactly what Tivo did for a specific Tive model?
It's not Tivotization, as if it was tivotized, the unsigned binary would still run, but other parts of the system would cease to function.
It's a case of digital handcuffs - the software won't run without a signature and you don't have the key and how the source code that probably mostly, but not completely corresponds, happens to be free software doesn't change anything - as the software is only practically useful to run on certain model DSPs.
The link I posted above describes the only case where detailed information is provided I've found and the scheme described was where Tivo would give you the source code and installation information for the mostly free software OS, but on compiling and installing such OS, with or without changes, the proprietary software programs would stop executing.
@lxo@jas >if the software contains a signature meant to prevent users from enjoying those freedoms and that control, in the intended (possibly single) use scenario, would it be reasonable to say that the software is free? The software is rendered proprietary by digital handcuffs in that case, which is something else to Tivotization.
What Tivo originally did was to provide the source code and installation information for all the free software - but make all the proprietary software stop running (you would have a DVR that could run VLC, but you couldn't run any of Tivo's proprietary software for the purposes of inspecting it/the RAM contents to see what spying it did and for its replacement) - which the GPLv2 does nothing about, as the GPLv2 doesn't contain any requirement to agree to not sabotage the execution of the system's aggregated software; https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/jul/23/tivoization-and-the-gpl-right-to-install/
Tivo later decided to intentionally infringe copyright by infringing the GPLv2 with future Tivo models, by refusing to provide the complete corresponding source code and installation information (the software was handcuffed - you needed a signing key for it to execute) and as a result, Tivotization is commonly confused with Tivo's GPLv2 infringement.
>I don't think the case of SOF is one of digital handcuffs. It is a case of digital handcuffs - there is source code that is claimed to correspond to the binaries and it can be compiled into a binary - but you can't run it on most of the relevant sound cards, as you need a private key that Intel refuses to provide (the binary can be made to execute on some SBC's and certain chromebooks, as Intel has provided the private key, but of course other parts of those are handcuffed).
It isn't a case of Tivotization, as with the necessary private key, the user could install a free DSP program and all the software on the computer would continue to execute without any of the proprietary software ceasing to function.
@lxo@jas Tivoization isn't a problem with the free software - it's a problem related to the proprietary software ceasing to operate and therefore making it unreasonable or impossible to develop a free replacement.
Digital handcuffs on what should be free software is something different to Tivoization.
@SuperDicq@thisjayx If you are using GNU OS code, you are using GNU as an operating system.
As I determined and detailed above, Chimera has most of the GNU packages a typical GNU/Linux distro uses (it even uses the GNU GRUB OS), the changes seem to be limited to a downgrade from glibc to musl and GNU coreutils to NonFreeBSD coreutils (plus it uses a few more NonFreeBSD libraries - but that's pretty common on GNU/Linux distros - for example libbsd).
The operating system of Chimera is clearly GNU/Linux - although the experience is degraded by the inclusion of bad software.
@SuperDicq@thisjayx >Your extremist views probably disagree here Those are my moderate views - you're in for a shock as to my extremest views.
>the consensus among the FSF people and GNU project seems to be that the presence of glibc and the coreutils are what defines if an operating system is a GNU OS or not. A consensus is irrelevant when the consensus is wrong - glibc and coreutils are only 2 GNU packages and their optional omission doesn't make an OS not GNU; https://www.gnu.org/software/
There was a consensus that the Earth was flat, but it's not flat.
>it is just an OS that happens to use some GNU tools. Tools are very few GNU packages - Chimera uses far more GNU libraries and OS packages than GNU tools.
>I agree GRUB is kind of like an operating system, but it's not the GNU operating system. GRUB is a GNU operating system that also happens to be an important part of booting GNU/Linux properly (which is why Chimera doesn't exclude it).
>You can also boot Windows using GRUB, that doesn't suddenly make Windows the GNU operating system because it is booted from GRUB. In the case of chainloading windows bootloader, GRUB is the only GNU package used, so Windows is therefore not a GNU operating system - but Chimera is very different.
It's like a pile of sand - it's easy to tell what's not a pile (one grain of GNU) and what's a pile (hundreds of grains of GNU) and going and removing 2 grains of GNU out of hundreds of GNU/Grains, doesn't suddenly make it not a GNU/Pile - only other cases where dozens and dozens of grains of GNU are removed does it become hard to tell.
@SuperDicq@thisjayx There are no OS's I'm aware of that use Linux, but don't use GNU.
For BusyBox/Linux systems, BusyBox contains ancient GNU code and is always build with GNU code.
Only seemingly Android manages avoids shipping GNU packages (google is attempting to replace Linux to remove the remaining GNU code) and Android is in fact developed and compiled and developed for on GNU/Linux.
@coolbean@fiore@SuperDicq@Erato_Heti Copper pipes are excellent for water delivery and don't sag like plastic pipes, even over long distances - the issue is that those on the hunt for more delicious crack steal copper pipes.
@fiore@SuperDicq Vendorlock? That is only applicable with proprietary software that you don't have the complete corresponding source code of - as GNU has expressively given permission to copy-pasta the software elsewhere and provides everything needed to make a clone implementation - but why would sane people bother to write a worse implementation of free software?
No GNU program contains malware - but I guess if you see GNU/Freedom as "malware", you'd see it in every last GNU program.
[[[ To any NSA, CIA & FBI agents reading my profile; please consider ]]][[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]][[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]Free software extremist who enjoys freedom and posting ですぅ.Please don't confuse me with an "open source" supporter ですぅ.GNU+Jihad against proprietary and "open source" software ですぅぅぅぅぅぅ!!!ⓘ User is the leader of an international terrorist organization.ですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅですぅ??