mekka okereke :verified:
This article is trash, and a lie that white parents in the suburbs tell themselves. Trump didn't make Hudson Valley kids racist/sexist. Your kids were already that way, but you don't listen to Black kids, so you don't know that.
NY State is Blacker than the US overall, but Hudson Valley is much whiter than the US overall. Ask a Black New Yorker why that is.
And stop pretending that manly men are conservative. Again: Black men are more masculine + more progressive.
1/N
mekka okereke :verified:
And like I've said before, every Mr Olympia winner for the past 40 years has been either Black or middle eastern, with 3 exceptions. All 3 of those exceptions are nazi hating "woke" people. The most conservative of them is Schwarzenegger, and people are still mad at him for making fun of Trump, fascists, and racists.
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/110244030455135203
So no, stop pretending that (unhealthy!) obsession with fitness and male body image is a conservative thing. All the most jacked dudes are on the left
2/N
bensomers
@mekkaokereke
Well, when conversatives argue that conservatism is more masculine, they're just declaring that to be the definition. They'd probably say "Schwarzenegger lost his masculinity because he got too woke"
mekka okereke :verified:
Black kids are online *a lot* more than white kids.
And yet, most Black boys think Tate is a loser, and that his fans are even bigger losers. Before the news became common knowledge, I explained what most Black men think of Tate. (CW: Discussion of Tate. It's bad. You really don't have to read this.
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/109621372212531350 )
The NY Times' trash crime coverage, and copaganda shows like "Law and Order" have done much more to encourage racism in these kids than social media has.
wendivibe
@mekkaokereke Abandoning kids to the algorithms pushing extremism and to shtbags like Andrew Tate & his ilk have done enormous damage.
mekka okereke :verified:
Social media has done more to *deprogram* non-racist white boys that would never have learned the truth about Black people and police and crime, than it has radicalized good kids into racism. 🙂🙃
If it weren't for social media, folks wouldn't understand how white women sometimes behave to try to get Black men and women hurt or or killed. They wouldn't believe that cops treat us differently. Some wouldn't ever talk to or interact with a Black person at all.
mekka okereke :verified:
No.
Like I've said before, Racism is fascism practices on Black people first.
There are kids that are super into sports, that don't go incel fascist. Most young Black boys in this country are super into sports. Many get super into fitness and working out as well.
The sports/fitness is not the common denominator. The racist worldview is. That worldview is formed by the people they're around, the news that they consume, and what their parents and friends say.
David P
Perhaps what might have been going on there was those boys were already into sport. Then there's a short hop to the wellness cult, and another short hop to body purity and anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories and finally you reach full blown Fascism.
Although, the wellness cult route to fascism is more common for (white) women for obvious reasons.
Tom Bellin :picardfacepalm:
@mekkaokereke @wendinoakland The algorithm shows different kids different stuff.
IMO, the tell in the original story is the dieting. That's always been a really niche idea, but selling diet pills to healthy people is literally the business of right-wing radio.
mekka okereke :verified:
You don't think Black kids and girls of all races get shown Tate videos too? They do. The difference is who responds to it, likes it, searches for more, favorites, shares, comments positively on, Tate videos. I'll tell you who: losers that hate women and girls.
Recommendation systems don't magically know what you like before you've interacted.
The whole fitness industry sells stuff! But again, not everyone sporty goes fash. It's not fitness, or sports, or masculinity.
Tom Bellin :picardfacepalm:
@mekkaokereke @wendinoakland I think you're being too reductive. These kids don't start out fascist.
I'm not trying to give them excuses. They are making conscious choices based on the media that's presented to them.
If we get out of this, we're going to bed to seriously grapple with the challenge to society of giving anyone with an internet connection unfettered access to our brains.
mekka okereke :verified:
No, I am not being too reductive.
Kids of all races, genders, religions, countries of origins, etc, are all exposed to the same fascist nonsense online. Almost all of them reject it, except the kids brought up in a culture that conditions them to expect a superior place in society because they're white.
It doesn't matter if they like physical sports or video games. If they are boys or girls. Rich or poor.
The only US folk where a majority support fascism, are white.
1/N
mekka okereke :verified:
People don't want to believe that "acceptance of racism" is the common denominator of these viewpoints. So they stay surprised when they learn that most white women support it.🤷🏿♂️
Or they pretend that it is "evangelicalism and religion." Even though Black kids are more church going than white, Latin or Asian kids, and still reject fascism.🤷🏿♂️
Or pretend that it's "economic anxiety," even though Black folk have the most economic anxiety, and still reject fascism.🤷🏿♂️
Any excuse.
Wyatt H Knott
@mekkaokereke Because they designed the bridges on the parkways to be too low for buses to get through? On purpose? So that blacks and other minorities couldn't even get jobs north of the city, let alone live there?
Sorry, I cheated, been living in New England a long time. 🙄
Ludwig Vielfrass
@whknott @mekkaokereke Holy shit! Is that why? I live in Arizona, so I'm not too familiar with the area, but I was driving through there 10 years ago with a freakin' RV and it's impossible to get around anywhere there in one of those.
I should've known. Motherfuckers. I knew a LOT of transit and highways are the way they are because racism, but I still learn more.
Wyatt H Knott
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/05/887386869/how-transportation-racism-shaped-america
Fifi Lamoura
@tob If the kids were brought up to be anti-racist they'd think racism is stupid. If they'd been brought up to treat girls as equals they'd treat girls as equals and think sexism is stupid. These are values that are learned at home. @mekkaokereke @wendinoakland
Tom Bellin :picardfacepalm:
@mekkaokereke @wendinoakland You can say you're being deliberately reductive, but "they were hopeless racists all along" is your argument.
It's possible to be reductivist and also correct, and maybe you are.
But if so, isn't the implication of your argument that it's impossible to have a anti-racist society because the whites will keep screwing it up?
America is systemically racist. Those who want to enshrine the systems of racism haven't been sitting around idle.
mekka okereke :verified:
🤔What?
No. You're confusing yourself trying to paraphrase what I said.
Yes, those kids were racist. And as I've said before, racist men don't care about your reproductive rights.
If you want these kids to not act like that, it's easy! Or at least it should be. Because you only have to do 2 things:
1) Stop trying to make every silly excuse but the real one: that racism underlies many of these views
2) Address that racism
There is no step 3.
Rachel Rawlings
@lerxst @whknott @mekkaokereke He's really only been dead just over 40 years, and it's been less than 50 since he retired. Even worse, after giving up the parks and highways, he spent a couple years in the 1970s as an advisor on public housing.
Rachel Rawlings
@lerxst @whknott @mekkaokereke Yep, this is a key design theme of Robert Moses's work, making bridges across the thruways on Long Island and going upstate too low for buses to carry Black people from the boroughs out to the upper class suburbs. Robert Caro mentions it a couple times in "The Power Broker."
Ludwig Vielfrass
@LinuxAndYarn @whknott @mekkaokereke Heaven forfend anyone have to live or even deal with someone with even a little bit extra melanin in their epidermis. 🙄
I don't know why this is hitting me harder than usual. It's yet another example of how ubiquitous racism is. Fucker's been dead for a hundred years and we still have to live with his bullshit.
mekka okereke :verified:
@tas50 @fifilamoura @tob @wendinoakland
Were talking about two different things.
1) Does your kid ever see this stuff?
2) Does your kid internalize this stuff and repeat the hate out into the world?
How often does your 9 year old interact with positive Black men role models? Weekly? Monthly? Are there 5 or 6 Black men that are part of your close community? I'm guessing no.
Because that's probably the easiest way to innoculate your kid from thinking that Tate is cool.
1/N
Tim Smith
@fifilamoura @tob @mekkaokereke @wendinoakland I don’t think it’s that simple. I have a 9 year old that I’ve spent 9 years trying to do the right thing but he still gets Tate Jr content pushed to him and his friends online. We’ve had to have a lot of conversations about what he repeats because he doesn’t even realize that it’s racist and sexist dog whistles. It’s a full time job. Social media absolutely targets kids and subtly pushes this bullshit on them
Fifi Lamoura
@tas50 I'm not saying social media doesn't push it on kids, it's about how we innoculate kids so they recognize bigoty when exposed to it and don't get sucked in. If you have female and non-White friends as a man and model healthy masculinity then you're actively modeling embracing equality, being antiracist and being feminist.
And I don't have kids, though I talk to kids I love about these things, so I'm not here to lecture you. Obviously you're an engaged parent and you've countered what they're mimicking that they see online. Deconstructing and explaining why those dog whistles are racist/sexist/homophobic is part of educating your kid if they haven't already learned that and it's also teaching them to think critically and to be anti-racist and feminist. Feminism is also for boys because it's essentially just humanism at its core. @tob @mekkaokereke @wendinoakland
Fifi Lamoura
@tas50 @tob How we reach kids whose parents are bigots or who don't care to pay attention is a different issue. Some of those kids simply educate themselves once they get out into the world and meet a more diverse range of people. White supremacists hate multiculturalism because it erodes White supremacy. Sexists hate feminism because it erodes sexism. In some ways it really is that simple. @mekkaokereke @wendinoakland
Fifi Lamoura
@tas50 Do it right and your kids will be calling you out on your unconscious racism 😆 Hopefully we are all helping each other deconstruct our harmful beliefs whatever our age. @tob @mekkaokereke @wendinoakland
mekka okereke :verified:
@tas50 @fifilamoura @tob @wendinoakland
Wait, I don't need to do a mini thread on this. Fifi already said it!
forza4galicia
mekka okereke :verified:
Oh I almost forgot the kicker:
If you don't stop your children from hating Black people, then
* Your sons will hate your daughters
* Your daughters will hate themselves
This isn't what I want to happen! This is what's going to happen. Or for some of y'all what has already happened.
I'm not debating this with y'all.
It's not the phones. It's not sports. It's not Trump. It's not Tate. It's not the economy. It's not masculinity.
It's racism.
Everything spans out from there.
3/3
CTraceyWrites
@mekkaokereke
100% I grew up in a very white town in the Hudson Valley. I remember hearing stories about non-white families hey hazed out of town just a few years before my generation. We had less than ten non-white families in my high school. There were a lot of racist jokes being thrown around all the time.
I hate even thinking back on some of it because I was definitely part of the problem when I was a kid. I am glad that my parents made sure I got involved in a lot of stuff outside my hometown because that helped me realize I had a lot of shit to unlearn and unpack. I was also fortunate to have friends who wouldn't hesitate to call out any bullshit. I've definitely come a long way from that, but my town has not.
I went down recently for an event in town and the racism is almost palpable. There are some things I see that make me happy things are improving. Like when I drove by one day when school was letting out and just the sheer number of poc kids that came running out made me so happy. But then the older people in town do things like hold blue lives matter rallies and shit.
Racism in the Hudson Valley is and has been a major problem. There are some signs of improvement, but there's also been a lot of "doubling down" that is really hard to tell if, overall, things are trending better or worse.
mekka okereke :verified:
Your parents are great for making sure that you got that exposure. And your friends are great for calling you in.
Unfortunately, you can't stop your kid from being exposed to this stuff. But you can arm your kid with the tools to know how to reject what's wrong and stick to what's right.
CTraceyWrites
Yeah, the shit is everywhere. I got very lucky that I exposed to people and places that gave me the tools to combat it and learn, but a lot of kids aren't going to be that lucky. And because we're in a blue state it almost makes it worse because a lot of people can NOT accept that they could be doing or saying something racist. They just get so defensive and and attempt to just teach them ends up devolving into either a fight or them crying until they're placated. It's exhausting.
Wraithe
@fifilamoura @tas50 @tob @mekkaokereke @wendinoakland “Feminism is also for boys because it's essentially just humanism at its core.”
Amen.
Back in my early 20’s when I refused to accept the label “feminist*” I was still a feminist thanks to my beliefs.
(* I had been exposed to a LOT of a particular brand of hateful “feminist” propaganda)
Fifi Lamoura
@Wraithe Yeah, just as a counterpoint, women are exposed constantly to male hate on both personal and systemic levels. Women are allowed a bit of trauma response when men routinely rape and murder us. Maybe not you personally but you still end up benefiting from our oppression. It's like being perceived as White in our society, we benefit from the oppression of non-White people wether we intend to or not. Or living in the West, we benefit from the exploitation of Africa and the global south even if it's not intentional on our part.
Misuse Case
@mekkaokereke @tob @wendinoakland The people who go “all religion is bad and encourages bigotry” are talking about white Evangelical religion and they think all religious expression is like that.
mekka okereke :verified:
@juergen_hubert @MisuseCase @tob @wendinoakland
Thinking of Christian nationalism or white evangelicism as a religion will get you very confused.
It leads to all sorts of questions like, "How are there atheist Christian nationalists?" and "Why do they like Trump?" And "Why do Black and white evangelicals vote in opposite directions?" And "Why did the KKK burn crosses while they murdered innocent people?"
This trailer is for a documentary that unconfuses a lot of this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WYseVO29ZU
Jürgen Hubert
@MisuseCase @mekkaokereke @tob @wendinoakland I am agnostic, and my stance is that I don't particularly care _how_ they justify their actions, only what they actually do.
Shitty people will always find a rationalization. But some religious groups - such as White Evangelicism - seem to attract a particularly large number of shitty people, and that's worth looking at. However, that does not mean that _all_ Christian groups are like that.
And the same approach should be taken with all the other major religions of this world. In the end, most of them boil down to advice on how to navigate this confusing world we find yourself in, and much of this advice is centuries out of date. How to adapt this to the modern world is a question for believers, but I only have a problem with that if they use it as an excuse to harass and oppress others.
Carolyn
@MisuseCase @mekkaokereke @tob @wendinoakland It is NOT just evangelical Christians. Name a religion and there will be a preacher preaching hate. It doesn't mean there aren't anomalies, in which parishes don't depend on hate and the fear of god to bring people into their pews (or equivalent) and pad their coffers, but it is definitely not relegated to one group of one religion.
Ooze 𓁟
@CStamp @MisuseCase @mekkaokereke @tob @wendinoakland The concept of a preacher is limited to a very small set of religions so you are mistaken.
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