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Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:11:13 JST Frondeur
@justnormalkorean @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle Was God angry at Job when he appeared to him and his three friends, and made him answer his questions??? Or simply speaking Lordly and confirming Job as a prophet???

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  HereForYourMemes (gab_refugee@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:13:19 JST HereForYourMemes
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  @Frondeur @justnormalkorean @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle God teaches many lessons to many, oftentimes in seemingly insignificant situations. They were being taught a lesson in God’s Glory.
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:16:19 JST Frondeur
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  @justnormalkorean @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle I see all over the place people claim God was angry at Job for questioning him...someone on here (on here) said it...lots of google search results will say it...but I found that weird having never read it that way...
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:16:20 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @Frondeur @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle tbh idk. Never went over that part I guess.
  
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  We're Going to Win. (pirin04@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:16:45 JST We're Going to Win.
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  @Gab_Refugee @Frondeur @justnormalkorean @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle the most important lessons He teaches are the shit He doesn't tolerate: AT ALL
  
  fools try to jew their way around His rules...like the rabbis that run a wire around their neighborhoods so their neighborhoods are considered "indoors"
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:48:43 JST Frondeur
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  @justnormalkorean @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle I don't know that for a fact...it is my guess...because much of Job's earlier speeches are basically saying he wants his day in court to plead his case but at the same time he wouldn't know what to say in God's presence...Job 9
  
  "14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
  
  15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
  
  16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
  
  17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause."
  
  It definitely foreshadows God speaking out of the tempest to him...and commanding him to speak...
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:48:44 JST Frondeur
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  @justnormalkorean @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle So this is what I hear all the time...the structure of Job is basically God and the Devil talking about Job...God condescends to let bad things happen to Job...a couple of rounds of this...Job's wife tells him to curse God and die...Job's friends come and tell him to admit he has committed sins...he argues with them...God shows up and scares everyone...
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:48:44 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle I didn't realize he was confirming Job as a prophet while all of this was going on.
  
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  HereForYourMemes (gab_refugee@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:48:45 JST HereForYourMemes
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  @Frondeur @justnormalkorean @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle It was a lesson in personal circumstance having no bearing over God’s Will, and that even when everything is taken, our God can and will restore us.
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:48:45 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @Gab_Refugee @Frondeur @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle Oh like the main point of the book of Job. I thought there was a specific part I wasn't clued in on.
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:49:08 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle Yeah that does make sense. Job is grouped the poetic books which seems a bit odd now.
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:49:09 JST Frondeur
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  @justnormalkorean @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle Then after God appears and Job humbles himself before God like he said he would...God says this in Job 42...
  "7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath."
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 14:54:40 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @justnormalkorean @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya Some of the Eastern churches use job and proverbs in their Lenton liturgies. It's very neat sounding.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:03:58 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean I've brought several non-denominational / Baptists to my church during Lent throughout the years. It goes from ambivalent or negative preconception to 100 questions and genuine interest. I'd like them to convert, but building bridges is more important to me.
  
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  blankdeblank (blankdeblank@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:03:59 JST blankdeblank
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  I visited an orthodox church and found the chanting of verses was pretty inspiring.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:10:37 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  If you read Isaiah 41-45 and don't think it's talking about you, I dunno what to tell you. from 40 on in Isaiah are my favorite, and extremely powerful. The reality is most people just don't know what they are reading/don't take the words seriously enough. it's so easy to just pretend like it's rhetoric or whatever, or just ignore/excuse it. Can't count the number of times someone has said "yea that's nice, but i just don't want to believe that so i won't."
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:10:38 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  jews have to lie about Daniel because it easily disproves everything about who they claim to be. And because of that, most "Christians" also lie about Daniel, and only focus on Chapter 9. The 2 apocryphal chapters are very interesting if you've never read them. Even Daniel could see the Canaanite jew for what it was.
  
  https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/susanna/1.html
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    Susanna 1 - LXX - Bible Study Tools
    
    Susanna 1 There dwelt a man in Babylon, called Joacim: And he took a wife, whose name was Susanna, the daughter of Chelcias, a very fair woman, and one that feared the Lord. Her parents also were righteous, and taught their daughter according to the law of Mos... Read verse in Septuagint Bible w/ Apocrypha
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:10:38 JST Frondeur
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  @Xenophon @justnormalkorean @tyler @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Gab_Refugee I'll have to reread Daniel next...I've been putting it off because I just got through Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel and those pretty much broke me...
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:10:39 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle He's one of the major prophets lol. There's a bunch of weird stuff different denominations do with Daniel. Like some of the chapters are apocrypha, some verses are completely omitted, etc.
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:10:40 JST Frondeur
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  @justnormalkorean @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle especially when you consider God has Job make sacrifices for his friends to atone for their sins...(presumably speaking wrongly about God)...Job 42
  
  "8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job."
  
  So seems like Job is a prophet to me...but yeah my understanding is the Jews also don't have Daniel in the prophets...so IDK...
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:13:02 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean >"yea that's nice, but i just don't want to believe that so i won't."
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:15:12 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @HarryNuggets @justnormalkorean @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee Why's that? Can't see the forest for the tards?
  
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  HarryNuggets (harrynuggets@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:15:13 JST HarryNuggets
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  @justnormalkorean @BowsacNoodle @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee I must have missed the memo on that in my experience it's hard to call anything with spergs yelling at each other heaven
  
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  HarryNuggets (harrynuggets@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:15:14 JST HarryNuggets
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  @justnormalkorean @BowsacNoodle @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee Now that's how you start a hellthread.
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:15:14 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @HarryNuggets @BowsacNoodle @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee Didn't we decide that once it becomes a biblical thread it turns into a heaventhread?
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:15:15 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @BowsacNoodle @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee I used to not be super interested in denominational conversion cus I just assumed if we all believed in God then we should all be gucci. But lately it's dawned on me that most of the major denominations are flat out wrong about some very important things.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:22:16 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @justnormalkorean @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee I feel you. Honestly, I don't have huge issues with most denominations from a basic standpoint. Usually they have their strengths and an atmosphere that fits some people. There are "new believer churches" I've seen that absolutely nail the evangelism aspect but don't accel in growing people's faith past a certain point. Of course I like my church the most, or I wouldn't be there.
  
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  AngryWraith (angrywraith@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:25:25 JST AngryWraith
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  @koropokkur @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @HarryNuggets @justnormalkorean >salts
  Nah, man, don't say that publicly. You know companies like Lays and pepsi would take human salt and use it in their products and stuff. They're jewish like that.
  
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  koropokkur (koropokkur@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:25:26 JST koropokkur
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  smote and sublimated into pillars of salts.
  
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  AngryWraith (angrywraith@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:25:27 JST AngryWraith
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  @koropokkur @justnormalkorean @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @HarryNuggets Dead faggots? Where's the dead faggots?! Glory to Christ and God on high!
  ... Where's the dead faggots?
  
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  koropokkur (koropokkur@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:25:28 JST koropokkur
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  aye... God be praised and death to sodomites
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:27:53 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean I am a sinner, and I regularly catch myself making excuses for things I shouldn't do. At least God is working in me and I don't ignore and pretend I know better like years ago.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:27:54 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  I definitely wasn't thinking about you friend 🙏
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:34:03 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @BowsacNoodle @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee Cultivating a relationship with God is probably one of the most difficult things you can do so I don't necessarily blame anyone for not being great at it. It's a very personal journey that can take a person their entire lifetime.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:36:33 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean Holy roller type churches and very big on Christian media and such.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 15:36:34 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  were you raised orthodox?
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 20:33:19 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @justnormalkorean @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee Nah but most media in our house was Christian. Music, books, etc.
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 20:33:20 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @BowsacNoodle @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee Baptist televangelist preacher man types?
  
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  AngryWraith (angrywraith@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 20:33:45 JST AngryWraith
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  @justnormalkorean @BowsacNoodle @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee God initially many years had me study under him.
  Then God had me study him.
  :bigbosscigar:
  Lotta anger over here on the Wraith ranch/dungeon. Lotta anger. Lotta history.
  
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  AngryWraith (angrywraith@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 20:33:46 JST AngryWraith
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  @justnormalkorean @BowsacNoodle @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee If someone mentions john hagee, veins start showing up on my face. They glow red too.
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 20:33:46 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
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  @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee I just googled it and the first word I saw was israel yuck
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 23:57:51 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean >When Jesus calls them the offspring of Satan in John 8:44, you again must either assume he wasn't being serious, in which case he commits the sin of false witness, or that accept the truth of the claim.
  Yet Jesus was known for parables, to the point that the Pharisees and even His own disciples regularly asked for clarification. This is a weak example that only works because of apriori Serpent Sneed belief.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Mar-2024 23:57:52 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  That wasn't what I was saying. Nobody can keep that law, that is the purpose OF the law. Although it is kind of humorous that we say thinks like "I'm a sinner in need of saving" when sin only exists under the law, but Christians believe the law is dead. 🤷
  
  What i'm referring to is very specific things that make people uncomfortable to admit/accept, like the serpents sneed. You can't, for example, believe that Eves seed is physical, and the serpents seed is not, because language doesn't allow for such interpretations. So you have to ignore it.
  
  When Jesus calls them the offspring of Satan in John 8:44, you again must either assume he wasn't being serious, in which case he commits the sin of false witness, or that accept the truth of the claim. But again, nobody wants to deal with this, because it is uncomfortable. and frankly i don't blame them, but as I've said before, my interest is not in salvation. I'm saved. I probably won't like what I'm saved as, but it is what it is. I'll scrub toilets for eternity. I want to know the uncomfortable truths.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:09:52 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean Jesus calling the Canaanite woman a dog must be literal or else he is was sinning then? Of course not! Jesus calls a Canaanite woman a dog, she persisted in faith, and He answered her plea (MATTHEW 15, MARK 7). This is more evidence that:
  >1. Christ used metaphors and parables frequently.
  >2. God does not withhold His love and blessings from people because of their blood.
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:09:53 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  It isnt a weak example at all. It isnt a parable. It is a direct accusation. If it were not true, it would be a sin.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:22:46 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
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  Yes. Tye canaanite woman is a dog. It is that simple. Canaanites are beyond saving.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:22:46 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean >Yes. Tye canaanite woman is a dog. It is that simple. Canaanites are beyond saving.
  And yet we read Christ showing the opposite. If they were as cursed as you insist, it would be insulting to even address her. How amazing that Christ compliments her faith and grants her request.
  >"yea that's nice, but i just don't want to believe that so i won't."
  Et tu, Statuetus?
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:31:39 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean So this was done why? What benefit is it to show that He can help Canaanites or Romans or anyone else besides "Israelites" (inb4 we wuz Jews)? What of The Great Commission— surely God knew of all nations of the world and its populations when he said that, beyond what The Romans knew of as "the world".
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:31:40 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
  in reply to
  Giving the dog a crumb doesnt save the dog. She has no spirit from above. He told her to go away because He didnt come for her. God has limitless power. If He wishes to grant Her an earthly request, He can do so. Even the demons know God is one, bit that wont sage them on judgment day. You want to see something that isnt there. There are unlimited examples of this.
  
  John 10 you do not believe me because you are not my sheep.
  They are not and can never be His sheep.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:57:05 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean >Can my dog accept Jesus and "go to heaven?
  All dogs go to heaven. Simple as. 😏
  For everything else, I once again call on my buddy Pascal. I wager I'd rather not be the guy who pushed someone away from salvation out of ignorance. Furthermore, the world would literally be a better place with more people behaving like actual Christians, regardless of how you feel about their potential for salvation.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 00:57:06 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
  in reply to
  He literally says
  >I only came for Israel
  This life and the life to come are not the same, so why place the same rules on them? Can my dog accept Jesus and "go to heaven?" Is a nigger a human just hecause you say they are?
  
  View it through the eyes of a 1st century Judean (and yes, Romans ARE Israelites as demonstrated by Paul and Daniel, as well as Gen 3/etc)
  
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  Xenophon (xenophon@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 01:41:48 JST Xenophon
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean I have never once suggested that anyone
  1. Shouldnt attwmpt to seek salvation
  2. Act in a christian manner.
  
  The point is not whether Jesus will reasurrect my dogs for me. I hope He will. It is what wont He resurrect, because it wontbe everything.
  
  A dog has jever sinned, because a dog has never been under the law. In the same way, neither has a canaanite, unless they were converted. But Paul makes it clear that the law cannot bring salvation, because to do so would be to nullify the promise. The promise was made explicitly and solely to Abraham and his offspring.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 01:41:48 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean And yet we're called adopted sons of God through Christ (EPHESIANS 1). You talk of contextualizing things for 1st century Hebrews— are you familiar with how they viewed adoption? It was a huge deal. An adopted son became true king and blood in their view.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:26:29 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Nudhul @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean Everyone is judged and Jesus puts His God-thumb on the scale.
  
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  ? (nudhul@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:26:31 JST ?
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean what would be the point of judgement if you're already saved? is it just a divine struggle session? a dressing down to make you feel the pain of all your sins before entrance into heaven?
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:26:32 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  How are
  >Enoch "seventh from Adam" (Jude 14),
  >Noah "the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5),
  >and Christ "after the order of Melchizedek" (Hebrews 7)
  ?
  
  How are both of the following faithfully called μονογενῆ (translated "only begotten" in the English translation) of Scripture:
  >Jesus (John 3:16), who had half-siblings
  >Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), who had half-siblings?
  Yes, Christ did not have a father by the flesh, so "only begotten" makes sense for that case--but for Isaac as well? Isaac's father, Abraham, clearly had another child (Ishmael), yet Scripture refers to Isaac also as μονογενῆ, translated as "only begotten"? What does that word--μονογενῆ--mean?
  
  Plus the usual questions.
  "Is it faith or works?"
  "Can a baby be saved?"
  "Can the severely mentally retarded be saved?" (Sincerely, think about it.)
  "Can someone lose their salvation?"
  "How is this fair to someone who never heard the Gospel?" (Truly, consider the centuries and continents.)
  "There are verses about believing and verses about those preordained, deceiving the elect if it were possible, etc.--How could one reconcile those? Do we choose to follow Christ--or are we destined?"
  And, of course, tracing down the seed--stated from Genesis to Revelation.
  The seed concept matters because it's wrapped up in the act of salvation. That's why it's so important to understand.
  
  So let me start with something controversial:
  
  It is not your goal to be saved.
  You are called to be faithful, not to be saved (nor to save).
  Our faithfulness is what will be judged.
  
  You are already saved.
  
  John 10:24-31
  <<<emphasis mine>>>
  >Then came the jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: <<<And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.>>> I and my Father are one. Then the jews took up stones again to stone him.
  
  "Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Not even you. Not even you can stop yourself from his having saved you.
  "It is finished."
  
  ("But we know there are those who will be not saved! The tares! The antichrists!" Yes. Hold on. I'm still going over salvation. After that, we'll go over judgment.)
  
  There are things salvation is and things salvation is not.
  
  Salvation is
  >life after the last day, when the wheat is kept and the tares are cast into the lake of fire for efficient destruction (not torture)--called the second death (for a reason: they cease to be) (hence why in Matthew we're warned to fear not one who can destroy the body but one can destroy both body and soul)
  Salvation is NOT
  >something Christ left unfinished; something you complete (neither by your faith nor your works); a conditional reward
  >an everlasting life in heaven; an afterlife without a body
  >the judgment of how your everlasting life will be after resurrection (there is such a judgment)
  
  Salvation is life, simply. Not being destroyed.
  That is the gift of equal measure, the grace undeserved for which no man can boast. That is the foundation.
  Then there is individual reward. The judgment.
  1 Corinthians 3:11-15
  >For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
  
  This is true of the saved.
  But who was saved?
  And we know there are those who will not be saved (to be thrown into the lake of fire, destroyed).
  Who are they?
  This is why the seed question matters, and talking about that will also answer all of the example questions above. [I'll continue by a comment on this comment.]
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  Kenrick (reluctanceherd@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:26:33 JST Kenrick
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @BowsacNoodle @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean As far as I know "the seed" can refer to a seed according to the flesh or to a seed according to the spirit.
  
  In the same chapter our Lord admits the Scribes and pharisees are "the seed of Abraham" (John 8:37) but He then says they are not his children, because they do not do his works (John 8:39). So I assume He is talking according to the flesh in the first case and according to the spirit later.
  
  Naturally, the flesh should inherit what it receives from the spirit, but it can, and will betray it if allowed. So apparently (According to the flesh) they are the seed of Abraham but truly they are not.
  
  Christians are the Seed of Abraham:
  “And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29)
  Because:
  “Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.” Acts 3:23
  
  NOTE: I am very happy to find people speaking about the Bible on Poast. Please excuse me if I got into where nobody called me or if I am missing the point.
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:26:33 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  >I am very happy to find people speaking about the Bible on Poast
  
  Hey! Sit by the fire with us
  
  >As far as I know "the seed" can refer to a seed according to the flesh or to a seed according to the spirit.
  
  I partly agree and (mostly) disagree, in the same way that I agree that a drink is both the drinking water itself and the cup you have by which to bear that water. One is born of God by the Spirit (from God to Adam to [...] to you) (this is being born of the Spirit) and we are born in the flesh (from Adam to [...] to you).
  
  It gets into how Christ is "after the order of Melchizedek."
  
  I'm going to make coffee first and switch over to my laptop, and then I'll share what some agree and others disagree on. It's not meant to speak for everyone here. My goal is to agree with the text as best as I can. I don't want to fall for the trap of one passage agreeing and another disagreeing. (A good example would be the arguments for saved by faith and for saved by works. Another example would be free will influence verses predestination.) It will be an effortpost talking about what salvation is and is not, the reasons for there being a Christ, the reasons he died (why not just rule now / then) because this matters in terms of the 'seed'.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:31:37 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean >Jesus who had half siblings
  That point is contested. Very possible, but not necessarily true.
  
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  ? (nudhul@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:38:22 JST ?
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean but what results from that?
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:56:56 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @Ash_Kvetchum @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean I'm not having this discussion again, because I think it's weird to obsess over assumed marital relations of Christ's mom. Catholics and Orthodox think otherwise, and it's long been a part of historic Church beliefs.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 02:56:58 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
  in reply to
  how is it contested? also why does it matter. Marry new Joseph. It's literally in the gospel.
  
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  Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:00:54 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
  in reply to
  it's a weird part of the belief.
  
  >24 When Joseph got up from sleeping, he did as the Lord’s angel had commanded him. He married her 25 but did not know her intimately until she gave birth to a son.
  
  He knew her. It's right there in Matthew. Priests lying about the gospel doesn't change the truth.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:00:54 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @Ash_Kvetchum @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean >I don't want to have this discussion again.
  >>proceeds to start the discussion, again.
  Thanks Marbleavius Statuequavius
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:05:28 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  True! I could be convinced either way
  🥂
  Please note that that doesn't affect the point, however--which is that Christ doesn't have a father by the flesh nor exactly siblings by that father, while Isaac does--a clear brother by Abraham himself--yet both are called (what is translated as) "only begotten".
  
  The translation is good enough literally, but obviously there is more meaning than "only kid I ever had I tell you wut"
  
  😄
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 03:09:37 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
  in reply to
  @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle @Xenophon @blankdeblank @tyler @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee At least you got out
  
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:47:12 JST Frondeur
  in reply to
  @justnormalkorean @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Gab_Refugee didnt lake viking have one???
  
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  Frondeur (frondeur@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:47:12 JST Frondeur
  in reply to
  @justnormalkorean @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Gab_Refugee and i guess godcast is basically one...
  
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  I am just normal /k/orean :verified: (justnormalkorean@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:47:13 JST I am just normal /k/orean :verified:
  in reply to
  @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee There a fedi bible study group or something?
  
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  HereForYourMemes (gab_refugee@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:47:14 JST HereForYourMemes
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @justnormalkorean @blankdeblank @Xenophon @tyler @xuya @Frondeur Need to really readdress finding a good church.
  
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  blankdeblank (blankdeblank@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 04:47:14 JST blankdeblank
  in reply to
  Instead of trying to find the perfect church just try and find where God wants you.
  
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  Chi Rho (chirho@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 10:52:11 JST Chi Rho
  in reply to
  @Frondeur @justnormalkorean @Gab_Refugee @tyler @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
  
  He didn't necessarily HAVE to be a prophet for God to send people to him to pray for them.
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 10:56:54 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  >called adopted sons
  
  God (the Husband) was required to kill his adulterous Bride, Israel (and therefore all Israelites), under the law (the Vow between the two).
  This is why Christ speaks about adultery right after talking about the law being fulfilled. It's the same subject, yet to say everyone will be saved *and say* the law would be fulfilled sounded ludicrous. (The law required all of Israel be killed! Yet all Israelites would be saved? It could not be reconciled... unless...) God came as a man and died.
  When the Husband dies, his Bride is released from her vow. (This is why Paul talks about an unfaithful woman being released from the law by the death of the husband (Romans 7) in the middle of his speech on Christ and the law.) "Till death do us part."
  
  The same prophets in scripture used by God to formally accuse Israel of adultery also formally stripped the Israelites of being his people, now to be called "not my people" and "no mercy", with God asking where "their mother" (his Bride) had any paper of divorce after her unfaithfulness.
  He also called these "not my people" his sheep scattered to every mountain--but that he would keep a remnant (those that were in Judea by the days of Christ) and that he would be their shepherd himself. (Christ being the Good Shepherd is reference to what he had said through these prophets.)
  Yet through the very same prophets, God promised the Israelites that they would once more be called "my people" and those named "no mercy" would have mercy; that they would once more be adopted as sons; that he would bring a new covenant (which seemed wild because it's against the law for a Husband to marry a Bride he has divorced). It really isn't a wonder why people ridiculed these prophets, if you consider the seemingly contradictory things they said.
  
  So by the death of the Husband, the Bride was spared. Her sins--all of their sins--were forgiven. The Husband had taken these on--in that he who did not deserve to die (he who had been faithful) did die. (This is also one part of the reason it was important that Christ not have a father by the flesh. He was born of a woman (as promised to Eve), of Israel, of the line of David, but not, according to the law, under a father--thereby born of Israelites (as promised) but not guilty. He was then also free to be a kinsmen redeemer.)
  
  The Israelites (the sons) were adopted as sons once more by the new covenant. With the resurrection, God could (not *remarry*, as he had suffered death, but instead lawfully) marry the Bride. This new covenant will come in full at the Wedding Feast, the Last Day. That covenant will be everlasting, and we will be sons.
  
  Notice:
  Since the Bride was released, ALL Israelites (all of the sheep scattered upon every mountain as lamented through the prophets, all of the sheep "not of *this* fold (Israelites knowing they were Israelites, trying to keep the law, Judeans and Samaritans)"--meaning sheep (Israelites) scattered through nearly a millennium by the Assyrian deportation and the Babylonian and the Roman--these Israelites who wouldn't even know they were Israelites but were still under the law were also released). The wild olive branches (olive tree being a repeated symbol of Israel throughout scripture) could be grafted back into the domesticated olive tree with the new covenant.
  
  What's more:
  Those scattered Israelites had fled or been deported throughout the nations, for centuries upon centuries, as seen by the Old Testament (and secular historians as well).
  Those Israelite fathers had children who had children who had children... for centuries.
  In other words, the seed of Abraham became many nations.
  
  And Christ was to be a light for the revelation of the nations, as the priest Simeon prophesied immediately upon seeing the Christ child. He was to reveal the nations he'd promised to Abraham. The Great Commission is Christ sending out those eleven disciples to do so.
  
  That is the adoption as sons.
  
  It's the Prodigal Son story.
  
  A note:
  (The Greek of what Simeon says of Christ is literally "a light for the revelation of the nations" as I write above. (All I can do is point to the explicit Greek. It's as clear and different in Greek as it would be in English. It's wild.) It is interesting that it was ever translated instead as "a light *of* revelation *to* *the Gentiles*", while not surprising that it continuous to be accepted "because it's written" and has been passed down (only since) as the same error, much like "born again" is passed down when the verse says explicitly "born of above."
  Translation changes that change meaning blatantly--an example being "dog" to "non-Huskie"--or "nations" to "Gentiles" (a new, made up word meaning "non-Judeans")--are the same successful twist as making money based on nothing and removing women from their femininity. Not everyone/thing twisting is a liar. Most are just twist*ed*.)
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 13-Mar-2024 13:08:49 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Xenophon @justnormalkorean I appreciate this explanation, but I'm not Calvinist and it feels like this would lead that way. Are you a predestination believer? At some point, I still ask "why does it matter" and just go with the hope and faith in Christ. It seems that's a point we agree on regardless of any deeper understandings or ignorance. I don't say that to dismiss your post either; I haven't put the time into research or reading Greek or good secondary source explanations for what you're stating.
  
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  HereForYourMemes (gab_refugee@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 14-Mar-2024 08:09:54 JST HereForYourMemes
  in reply to
  @Xenophon @BowsacNoodle @xuya @Frondeur @justnormalkorean Had this near exact thought yesterday:
  I’ll be grateful to be a janitor or servant. I literally just want to spend forever near Him to know I’m safe.
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 14-Mar-2024 08:29:51 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  >I'm tl;dr-ing here a non-Calvinist, non-Arminian view of scripture, so please be patient with the effortpost
  
  Friend, I'm neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian.
  
  I'm sure every one of ourguys has had the experience of having put to them "This is leaning [Republican / Communist]. Do you believe in [Republican point / Pelosi]?"--depending on whether questioner is more to the left or right but still within the Overton window.
  With politics, ourguys know both views are not the way and not true; that both options are fed by the same small, concentration; that the vast population sways (allowably) only within the guardrails set.
  
  We don't notice the same of ourselves when ourguys speak on theology. There is an Overton theology, a state-tolerable theology. So I'm going to give a metaphor of three views--each looking at the same building--to emphasize the difference (and failure of two of the views, imo) between Calvinism, Arminianism, and the third--that which I believe scripture describes.
  
  Metaphor:
  You're a boss, an employer.
  There's a building.
  Within the one building are multiple companies.
  What will you do? What was your goal?
  
  >View A (Arminianism):
  You're going to keep all those that believe you are the boss. It doesn't matter which company in the building they're from.
  Some believe all they have to do is believe you're the best boss. Others believe they have to show they believe with their work.
  Some think you'll pull all of the employees who believed you out and then set the building on fire for 7 years to give those inside a chance to change their mind.
  
  >View C (Calvinism):
  You've known from the beginning which employees you'll keep, of all companies. Those employees would follow you no matter what. They have no choice in the matter--or they do but it is inevitable that they would choose you; that they'd know you were the best boss.
  You'll fire the rest. Some think you'll kill them. Some think you'll torture them.
  
  Both A and C want the news of what's happening to get out, and have questions/exceptions on what will happen to him that didn't receive the news. Or they ignore obvious records, errantly saying everyone who has worked here, through all companies, would have heard the news.
  
  >View B (Biblical, imo):
  You are the boss, the owner of the building. You had vanguard employees oversee the construction of the building itself. Some of these vanguard employees did more and started their own companies, counter to your will.
  You start your own company. "No mergers," you tell them. "We're going to accomplish the dominion of the whole building. I will guide you."
  They disobey. And every day more are hired to your company. You wrangle to keep your company separate. You even choose the smallest team within your company and head them by a representative--promising that you'll lead them in person soon. You make a particular contract with that small team.
  The team splits into two. Team 1 and Team 2. Team 2's supervisor was more loyal. When you come in person, you will sit at Team 2's table. Team 1 has been considering merging with other teams within your company, but also--worse--with other companies.
  You give many warnings to them. You won't protect Team 1 as other teams (within your company) come for them. You give startling predictions of what will happen.
  Team 1 is scattered throughout so many of the teams of your company.
  And above all of this, there's the looming threat: that particular contract with the small team requires everyone that leaves the team to be fired. Now even Team 2 is acting de jure with your particular contract but de facto working as if they work for another company. In fact, Team 2's supervisor positions are almost entirely seated by members of another company.
  You arrive in person, during the time you said you were coming--but undercover, asking those of your company that recognize you to spread your message but not your identity. You spread the news: "The boss is going to save the company. He is going to save the team he made. He is going to reconstitute the team he made. And not a bullet of the particular contract will be broken, while he does it--through me."
  The board of Team 2 fires you.
  Guess what? That "particular contract" made long ago remains only while both parties are employed: those being the entire team (no matter how many teams it has fractured into) and you. And you just got fired. So now you won't have to fire everyone under the particular contract. It's fulfilled.
  And though you can be fired (when you come as an employee), you--as the boss--can hire yourself again.
  The word is out. You're coming. The other companies will be booted. Those vanguard employees from long ago will be fired. Every one among your company will be kept employed, no matter whether they believed you were the boss or not. And they will be rewarded by how they treated one another, protected one another. Some will have a small reward.
  Better known your intentions, better they'll treat one another.
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 14-Mar-2024 10:26:25 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  >did part 2 poast yet?
  
  Not yet! I wrote today another effortpost to answer a question that was in another fork of this thread. (I'll attach the link to that effortpost here.)
  
  For the coming Part 2 of this thread, I've been reworking today (when I can touch it) to make it "short"er, more streamlined, bite-sized
  
  It is a task to tl;dr a thought that (imo) runs through the entirety of Scripture, lol
  
  Here's the effortpost I wrote today for the other fork of the thread, though:
  https://nicecrew.digital/notice/Afoly7OgeX0DRVvqk4
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    >I'm tl;dr-ing here a non-Calvinist, non-Arminian view of scripture, so please be patient with the effortpost Friend, I'm neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian. I'm sure every one of ourguys has ha...
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  filthbox (filthbox@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 14-Mar-2024 10:26:32 JST filthbox
  in reply to
  did part 2 poast yet?
  
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  Kenrick (reluctanceherd@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 14-Mar-2024 21:14:43 JST Kenrick
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean Thanks for the welcome!
  
  Sorry I did not really understand "the cup" part. Maybe you are speaking about some verses I do not remember now. For me the water is the water, and the cup is the cup.
  
  We Christians are to be of one mind, especially in matters of faith:
  "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind." (Philipians 2:2)
  
  The Bible is clear in that we are indeed saved by faith, but not faith alone, because faith without works is dead.
  And we are NOT saved by works alone, faith is absolutely necessary. But it will be rendered to each according to their works. To some glory and honor and to others wrath.
  
  “He will render to each one according to his works: to those who with endurance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury” (Romans 2:6-8).
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 04:37:41 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean I'm glad you addressed sheep and goats, but how do you interpret "depart from me, I never knew you"? Christians in name only/cultural Christians who don't actively live as Christians, or more of a "I did good for God!" Faux/non-Christians, or do you see the word "Christian" as sort of detached from your understanding of how all of this works? I'm curious and not trying to put words into your mouth.
  
  Is there a name for your type of theological view or scholarship involved?
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 04:37:42 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  Brother, I have the Part 2 out now (I've labeled it over in the other fork of the thread as [Part 2] to help everyone keep order). That goes over "only begotten." What you've said is very close. There is more to that term.
  
  >You are not already saved
  Note that "salvation" is not always about the lake of fire. Christ had spoken about the fall of the very real and present temple of the day. Notice in, Matthew 24, Christ tells the disciples that the temple will not have one stone left standing on top of another. The disciples then ask when that will be *and* when the end of the world will be *and* what will be the sign of his coming. (Keep in mind that the Revelation had yet to be given, and here's Christ saying the temple will fall and he'll come like a thief in the night. It was not--yet--evident to the disciples that the last day, Christ's return, would be a time much after the fall of that temple. We can see this by their questions.)
  
  The temple fell some 40 years later.
  
  Only after this did John receive the Revelation of things that must come to pass--revealing to us that the last day would be some time (from then) and not concurrent with the fall of the then-recently-fallen temple.
  
  Apart from verses discussing what Christ accomplished and finished--the word "salvation" is often in verses akin to "Save yourself! Look after one another!" That is a salvation they could have *participated* in. Warn others. This temple is going to come down. Be vigilant. Something big is going to happen soon. (It did. Judea fell. The Judeans were dispersed for two millennia thereafter.)
  
  Some salvation verses are about how Christ's death saved all Israelites (all under the law--whether Israelite Judeans or Israelite Samaritans or Israelite Hellenists (the "Greek" of "neither Greek nor Judean" fame) or Israelites dispersed far away since the Assyrians and Babylonians centuries ago who've even forgotten they were under the law). The death of the Husband saved the unfaithful Bride (Israel--meaning all Israelites, as listed above) from a deserved earthly death that would be according to their Vow (the law).
  
  Some salvation verses are about the judgement / the reward. Saving up treasures, our reward, by our works. Saving our brothers and sisters from shame (when judgment of their works will come) by teaching them to help one another. (Our judgment will be consideration of how we treated the sheep. On the last day, the sheep and goats will be divided (also called the wheat and tares). The sheep will be judged by how they treated the least of these (the sheep), as we are called to "Love thy neighbor (one "near you," not geographical person) as yourself.")
  
  We cannot add to nor take away from, complete nor leave incomplete, what Christ accomplished. He saved the descendants of Adam. The wheat. The children of the kingdom. The children of God. The body of Christ. He is the vine (Yahweh) and we are the branches (every one born from Adam, to whom was given a spirit by Yahweh). One cannot enter the kingdom of God unless he be born of above, of the water (flesh) and of the Spirit; what is flesh is flesh and what is Spirit is Spirit.
  Please read 1 John 5. Note how "Christ came through water and blood" ( or "Came by water and blood" in some English translations; either is fine). That is not about baptism. That is about coming in the flesh as a descendant of Adam (water) and even more specifically as a descendant of Jacob, an Israelite (blood). Note how the chapter even speaks of being "born of God."
  There isn't a "born again." The Greek is "born of above."
  
  Those not planted by God but by another--the tares--the children of the wicked one--the works of the devil--and even the devil and his angels--will be thrown into the lake of fire to be no more.
  
  In Genesis, in the beginning, there are two trees. At the end of Revelation, after the the tares are thrown into lake of fire, there is one.
  
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink
  
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  Kenrick (reluctanceherd@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 04:37:43 JST Kenrick
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @BowsacNoodle @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @justnormalkorean I do not get the first part about Enoch, Noah, and Christ, sorry.
  You present a lot questions together, many of which could be considered as apparent contradictions. But when in doubt we are to look for answers in Scripture and Tradition and be very careful with following our own suppositions.
  There is a lot, I will focus just on the first part I understand, it would take too long to answer so many old questions here.
  
  About Jesus and Isaac and being the "only son".
  It is not prudent to affirm that Jesus had half-siblings.
  The word used to refer to Jesus "brothers" in the original text is “adelphos” (ἀδελφὸς), Which is translated consistently throughout the Bible as “brother” or “brothers”. But which meaning is not only referring to blood related brothers but also to half brothers, mate, friend or fellow members.
  As demonstrated by 1 Corinthians 15:6 where it speaks about 500 "brothers" “adelphos” (ἀδελφὸς)
  "After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep."
  
  And the word "μονογενῆ" used also of Isaac is, as you say, rendered many times as "only begotten son" but also simply as "only son". We know Abraham casted the slave woman and Ishmael away, as Sarah told him "Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac." (Gen 21:10) and God confirmed to him the same thing: "And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called." (Gen 21:12)
  
  After casting Ismael away, Isaac was his only son left, in whom his seed should be called. (his seed should NOT be called in Ishmael) So the word "μονογενῆ" (only son) is rightly used there.
  
  We can speak about the rest of the questions later, in truth they have been answered many times already, and many centuries ago.
  
  But I cannot resist to answer the part where you say "It is not your goal to be saved" and "you are already saved". Because I find those very contrary to scripture and tradition.
  "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philipians 2:12)
  I bet the Devil would love for us to believe we are already saved no matter what.
  
  I ask forgiveness in advance if my language is perceived as too direct or maybe even aggressive to anyone, I tend to speak boldly about these things, it is not my intention to offend.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 05:41:48 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Gab_Refugee @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean I have indeed, but my question isn't related to that (or maybe it is). I am trying to understand more about this specific view, because it's not a common biblical hermeneutic.
  Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He surrendered himself voluntarily and willingly, suffered and died, and rose again after conquering death. He is seated at the right hand of The Father. I do not believe salvation is through my blood or actions (outside of choosing to reject Christ's unearned gift), and I do believe we are called to show and "bear fruit" of our faith EVEN THOUGH SHOWING THIS IS NOT 'EARNING SALVATION' (I will still have people who insist this is works-based salvation).
  
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  HereForYourMemes (gab_refugee@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 05:41:49 JST HereForYourMemes
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean Have you confessed with your lips “Christ is Lord,“ and believe that He died for your sins, has risen again, is at The Right Hand of God?
  
  if the answer is yes, you are saved fren.
  
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  HereForYourMemes (gab_refugee@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 05:43:49 JST HereForYourMemes
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean All we can do beyond that is speculate.
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 11:24:42 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  [Part 3 .1]
  
  >I am trying to understand more about this specific view, because it's not a common biblical hermeneutic.
  
  Thank you, Bowsac.
  Some say I'm wrong. (I have yet to see them successfully restate things I am actually saying.) Meh--at least we'll gain something. The order of Melchizedek isn't something churches touch, now is it? (And it is critical to an understanding of *how* Christ's death saves us, rather than a surface understand (and leaving room for misunderstandings beneath the fact) *that* his death saves us.)
  
  >I will still have people who insist [...]
  
  I know that feeling.
  Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for ourguys to see that, just as there's an Overton window to look into politics that lies as a film to filter, there's an Overton window to look into Christianity--and it's even older. Its hellthread (the millennia of church denomination dogma and documents) cooled down. What it cooled down to is still deteriorating. ("Trannies can lead churches," "God is trans," "Homosexuality is not a sin," etc.)
  
  I'll start by saying we are saved by the Spirit--not by our blood.
  
  The tares--more concisely called (as Christ's explicit mapping/explanation to his disciples of the metaphor within the parable, after he had stated he would utter things kept secret since the foundation of the world) "the children of the wicked one"--also have ancestors descended from Adam. Even more: They also have ancestors descended from Abraham! And so they claim not just the promises to Adam and his descendants but also to Abraham and his descendants! And to Jacob! Yet I follow in Christ's statement that they will not be saved from destruction in the lake of fire. How then could someone say I claim it's your blood that saves you?
  
  As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15
  >There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
  
  Paul is talking about two things simultaneously at once because both topics have a "type" in common, poetically--much in the way you could talk about:
  >Jacob having 12 sons, losing 1 (Joseph), replaced by 2 (Ephraim and Manasseh), and growing a body through them, and
  >Christ having 12 disciples, losing 1 (Judas), replaced by 2 (Matthias in Acts 1 and of course Paul), and growing a body through them
  
  The two topics Paul is talking about in the 1 Corinthians 15 passage above about having a natural and a spiritual are these, simultaneously:
  > 1) You have a natural body and you have a spiritual body. You are born with your natural body first. Second is your spiritual body. (i.e. You are created. There isn't a spiritual you until there's a physical you.)(Paul goes on to say that the resurrection will be of a purified body, an immortal body, in the flesh. The spiritual body is something you have *now*. It is what we have inherited through Adam and he received this from Yahweh in Genesis.)
  > 2) Adam was born of the earth, and he was the first earthly father--and he had an earthly body first, before he was in the Spirit (by the "ruach" (Hebrew for "breath" or "spirit") act of Yahweh in Genesis) (i.e. Adam was earth, and then he acquired a spiritual body / was made a branch to the vine, became a child of God). Second to be born of the earth was Christ (when considered by the flesh)--yet he (being Yahweh) was (and is) a Spirit first--he became earthly after.
  
  That's the double-topic Paul is talking about. He's using each of these topics to poetically trace the other--a symmetry, a "type" as biblical scholars of all stands like to call these patterns--this specific "type" is meant to trace the method of salvation (and successfully doing so).
  
  [I need a second post lol So I'll split it up here into an immediate comment of this post. A Part 3 .2 ]
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 12:00:25 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean >The order of Melchizedek isn't something churches touch, now is it?
  I never heard about it until begoming Eastern Christian (xDDD), but it's mentioned often, including iconography.
  >[Christianity's] hellthread (the millennia of church denomination dogma and documents)...is still deteriorating...
  Great metaphor :whitemonster: and very well said!
  >There isn't a spiritual you until there's a physical you.
  Aquinas 👍🏻 although Jeremiah 1:5 ["Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”]
  makes this point seem odd (unless we assume either an exceptional nature of prophets which the verse seems to imply or take it as an understanding of the all-knowing nature of God).
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 12:28:39 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  Also ignore typos, friends. Sometimes "were" should be "we're". I did not mean "the" Yahweh, haha. I was speed editing before switching over to cook. Thank you all for your patience.
  
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 12:28:40 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  [Part 3 .2]
  
  Let me repeat one *essential* part of the 1 Corinthians 15 passage that deserves emphasis so that I better trace the method of salvation:
  >As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
  
  >We bear the image of the earthy (Adam, our father by the flesh)
  and so were condemned by one man (read Romans 5, which talks about being condemned by one man, Adam) when Adam--the earthy image we bear--strayed by breaking the commandment to "not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." We were dead by the Spirit because our earthy image Head (Adam) fell to sin (missing the mark, astray from God's Spirit). His earthy body would have a spirit body straying from God. We, bearing the earthy image of Adam, upon death would also have a spirit body straying from God.
  
  So what was the solution?
  Christ and the Father are one. "Before Abraham was, I AM." Yahweh became a Son of Man, earthy. However, Adam is not *his* father. *You and every other descendant of Adam* has a father whose father whose father whose [...] father is Adam. Christ is a new Adam. Adam is not Christ's earthly Head. Christ is his own earthly Head. Christ would not bear the earthy image of Adam, our earthy Head.
  
  At his baptism, the Yahweh "descended his Spirit" upon Christ. What is this? This is God breathing the Spirit into the second Adam.
  
  Then, when Christ, a Son of Man in the flesh dies--and being Yahweh, a father, the first of fathers, the Father of Adam--the eldest living son (earthy image) (i.e. Christ, who is Yahweh) of that earthy father who just died (Yahweh) by the order of Melchizedek becomes the Spiritual Head.
  
  The next living son earthy, living? The living, the resurrected, Christ.
  
  And *that* Spiritual Head was not in sin, remember?
  
  What's more: He is Yahweh himself. He will never stray from Yahweh.
  
  So now by the Spirit (by the order of Melchizedek) the Head of our Body is Christ, not Adam. We bear an earthy image of Adam. We will die, but by the Spirit we live in Christ *because we are already saved*.
  
  Salvation is not our reward. It is by grace alone. All descendants of Adam are saved.
  
  We bear the image of the earthy Head (Adam), which will die to sin.
  By our Spirit, we cannot sin (1 John 3:9) as our Spiritual Head is Christ.
  On the last die, on the resurrection, we will have new bodies. We will bear an earthy image after Christ. (Back to Paul talking about the spiritual body being before an earthy body.)
  Though all descended from Adam are thus saved by the Spirit, not all will be rewarded equally because they will be judged by how they treated one another.
  
  Again, everything Christ and Paul and John et al. say makes sense *only* if Seth was the second in the order of Melchizedek because Seth was the *eldest living son* of Adam--and Cain was not Adam's, though born of Eve. (So descendants of Cain would *not* bear the earthy image of Adam--nor the Spiritual image Yahweh gave to Adam--and thus would not be under the salvation of Christ. In fact, you might say they would be a blasphemy of the Spirit (stray from God)--the only unforgivable--and liars after the image of *their* father. Christ says one may blaspheme the Son of Man and be forgiven (saved) but one may not blaspheme the Spirit.)
  
  Christ calls the descendants of Cain devils, vipers. He talks about children of the wicked one.
  
  I'll do a Part 4 either tomorrow or the next day.
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 12:32:53 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @Ash_Kvetchum @Xenophon @xuya @Frondeur @Gab_Refugee @Reluctanceherd @justnormalkorean >*only* if Seth was the second in the order of Melchizedek because Seth was the *eldest living son* of Adam--and Cain was not Adam's, though born of Eve. (So descendants of Cain would *not* bear the earthy image of Adam--nor the Spiritual image Yahweh gave to Adam--and thus would not be under the salvation of Christ.
  Cain was cursed and thrown out, forced to wonder the earth (Mormons say he's bigfoot 😉). I think being personally called out and expelled by God trumps the need for serpent Sneed.
  
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  nsf001 (nsf001@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 12:33:31 JST nsf001
  in reply to
  There is at least one saint named after Melchizedek
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  Ash Kvetchum (ash_kvetchum@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 15-Mar-2024 16:21:25 JST Ash Kvetchum
  in reply to
  First of all, Cain cannot be Bigfoot because I have been to his house and he lets me eat his chicken. [pic (PROOF) related]
  
  >I think being personally called out and expelled by God trumps the need for serpent Sneed
  
  Part 4 (the final effortpost part, I expect) will I think at least be insightful to why I would think otherwise and what I have found convincing.
  
  Here's a teaser of things needing explanation:
  
  Sodom recieves death for its sin once its transgression is "full." At what point is it full? Which sin? Why didn't Cain recieve death for his sin?
  And why was Cain (if the eldest son), not accepted with his offering? Why was Abel?
  And shouldn't this be about one's fruit, as Christ says? (It should be, and it is.)
  What commandment did Cain break? What law? (He didn't. But Sodom did.)
  
  A lot will rest/kick off with this from Romans 5:
  >Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
  
  Just hoping to show that this is an argument I'll actually build. (And you can observe for yourself and push it with what weight you can. Either it falls and I learn more or it stands and I learned how to convey what I'm seeing well along the way.)
  
  It may have to be a two-parter. I think 1 is enough (succinct and weight bearing) and 2 would be going through the "and even here, this part agrees because."
  
  I'll try to get Part 4 out tomorrow. We'll see! Thank you for discussing with me along the way.
  
  (And did you see Part 2? Listing in the order of Melchizedek who was the first, second, third, fourth, etc.)
  
  Thanks again
  
  🥂
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  Omega Variant (omega_variant@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Sunday, 14-Apr-2024 02:08:59 JST Omega Variant
  in reply to
  God made it pretty crystal clear he hated esau and his children and they would never enter into his congregation.
  
  Thus the serpent line. I guess you could say it spans back to Cain as well as I think esau did procreate with Canaanites and other forbidden -ites
  
  There are some who cannot and will not be saved. IMO.
  
  Vessels of wrath fit for destruction.
  
  In conversation about 7 months ago permalink
  
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