Notices by Josh Davis (guerillaontologist@social.coop), page 2

@cjd @lucy
Reality would like a word.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/06/16/the-highest-paid-ceos-are-the-worst-performers-new-study-says/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shivaramrajgopal/2022/10/23/most-us-companies-pay-ceos-under-a-competitive-pay-policy-but-dont-confuse-it-for-pay-with-performance/

@ntnsndr Sure, but everybody in that building actually their lives in essentially the same way materially right? In my experience, the communal lifestyle of the early church is rather far removed from the experience of most believers, whether they announce their politico-economic preferences on their car bumper or not. Practically, what difference does it make, when everyone lives the same individualistic, materialistic lives? Are not all equally falling short of the example set in Acts 4?

@ntnsndr @CaitlinWaddick we meeting this morning? I'm waiting for the room host (Nathan).

@ntnsndr @Steve
https://buenosairesherald.com/economics/government-deploys-slipshod-suspension-of-worker-cooperatives

@ntnsndr Apart from my critiques of crypto in general, this example highlights a major problem for anyone interested in doing democracy on a public, permissionless blockchain: there's no good way to verify identities to prevent sock-puppeting, as this commenter points out. If you're only interested in 1 token = 1 vote (tokenocracy) then you don't need to care about how many wallets one person is voting with, but if you're a 1 person = 1 vote type then this is a big problem, seems to me.

@Erpel @kaia
I need one of those. It would keep me from breaking any more axe handles.

@ntnsndr @caseynewton

I started reading that paper, Nathan, and was intrigued by the first example you cite, of the Colorado Sun. Reading their website, they look like a good example of how community media can work. Besides a lot of good old fashioned community organizing work, they also had an initial input of capital. The initial funders bailed, but they had enough local support to keep it going. Enlightening on a number of fronts.

https://coloradosun.com/2020/06/04/colorado-sun-media-journalism-newspapers-opinion/

https://coloradosun.com/how-the-sun-is-funded/

@aral Sad af, to put it mildly, but that's the problem with legal systems, they are always constrained in what they can do. But like Yves, I was half expecting them to dismiss the case on a technicality, which they emphatically didn't do, so personally I'm taking this as a sign that the world is finally turning against the US's foreign policy. Of course, I wish it would happen quicker (or a couple decades ago) and more decisively.

@aral

Here's a little different take on number 1 from Yves at Naked Capitalism

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/01/international-court-of-justice-rules-forcefully-against-israel-in-landmark-genocide-ruling-including-restricting-military-action.html

@ntnsndr @yala @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes
I have to take issue with that last statement. The vast majority of the report is talking about how to apply DAO tooling to co-ops to supposedly make them more competitive. The space devoted to that far outweighs the space you all devoted to policy proposals. The summary gives a good idea of the amount of space devoted to each. "Shilling tech" are your words, not mine, but I do think that's a pretty fair description of the bulk of the paper.

@ntnsndr @yala @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes

I'll grant you that, but as SBF and others have been finding out, you can't just use blockchain to avoid having to deal with national laws and regulations. Creating a legal framework for int'l co-ops needs to happen, but that in no way means crypto is a good (or legally safe) solution.

@ntnsndr @yala @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes

Again, all of these fall under either "can be done better and cheaper some other way," or "presents real legal hazards from possible securities violations."

@ntnsndr @yala @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes

-Well we've somehow managed thus far without any need for crypto, right? MyCoolClass has members all over the world without need of crypto, so I think we're already enabled (without paying gas fees).

-This sounds like a legal risk to me, ex an SEC ruling.

-You can do this with permissioned blockchains that do not share the flaws of permissionless blockchains, and are tens of thousands of times cheaper to run. (https://blog.dshr.org/2023/02/economic-incentives.html)

@yala @ntnsndr @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes

Another critique that hasn't even been addressed in this thread is that tech solutions favor the tech savvy and put everyone else at a disadvantage. While anyone who can read can, with a little effort, understand a set of bylaws, in order to read a smart contract you have to learn to code. Again, no one has actually ever addressed this point.

https://geo.coop/blog/blockchain-no-place-build-co-op

@yala @ntnsndr @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes
I'd start with just one question, to keep it simple:

Given that blockchains, in practice, are not distributed or trustless systems, and given that anything you can do with a DAO you can accomplish in other ways, what is the argument for using crypto blockchains?

@shauna @Matt_Noyes @ntnsndr @Stacco @alannairving @mattcropp
Bingo. This is also a criticism of a lot of the "platform co-op" space - they focus on the tech too much and the cooperative culture aspects (almost) not at all.

@ntnsndr @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes @Stacco
Like, it would be super cool to one day actually have someone prove their contention that blockchains are decentralized. Decentralization may be great and all, but the blockchains aren't decentralized, so...

https://blog.dshr.org/2023/11/decentralized-finance-isnt.html

https://blog.dshr.org/2023/02/economic-incentives.html

https://blog.dshr.org/2022/01/another-layer-of-centralization.html

@ntnsndr @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes
Maybe someday we'll all be able to see the good side of MLMs too. It's a real shame that people are so down on them, just because they aren't perfect.

Seriously though, critiques of blockchain technology get met with philosophical arguments about the nature of money and claims about the technology that don't stand up to scrutiny. What I don't seem to get is specific responses to specific critiques.

@ntnsndr @skyfaller @shauna @Matt_Noyes
Maybe I could agree somewhat if blockchains were what they claim to be (and what you claim them to be), i.e. decentralized, anonymous, immutable. But in practice they are none of those things, which you must be aware of, right?

"the common meaning of ‘decentralized’ as applied to blockchain systems functions as a veil that covers over and prevents many from seeing the actions of key actors within the system." ~Prof. Angela Walch

@ntnsndr @shauna @Matt_Noyes @Stacco @alannairving @mattcropp
I've talked to a lot of people making co-ops irl, and the major issues they talk about nearly all revolve around building trust and relationships in one way or another. I don't think I've talked to anyone, actually, who's told me their major issue in starting a co-op was finding money.