Notices by Bradley M. Kühn (bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org), page 2

@RichardJActon
The copyleft-ish hack I propose is *we* (FOSS community) assume that any output of an LLM-backed genAI system *is* copylefted (since we are pretty sure all such systems — at least those designed for software development assist — have been trained on copylefted codebases).
Then, we copyleft any work that comes out of the system.
The only threat is proprietary software in the training set, & the industry can't abide enforcing *that*!
@cwebber @ossguy @richardfontana
@evan
@kees

@richardfontana

It's solved with a new copyleft-next clause I have not pitched you yet.

Remember how I keep telling we need to talk every week? 🤣

@RichardJActon @cwebber @ossguy @evan @kees

@evan I did search for a lot of free software people.

It was not good.

https://fedi.copyleft.org/@bkuhn/116289543030203016

@dalias

Have you seen attribution lawsuits anywhere in the 50 years of the BSD license?

Of course, you have a point. But we're facing possible compulsory licensing if we don't improve our strategy. We may do the wrong thing, & if a BSD-licensed project wants to burn it down & sue a copylefted project for non-attribution infringement, let's deal with that when it comes.

& I'm speaking as one of the few who has actually been threatened with such a lawsuit.

@cwebber @zacchiro @richardfontana

@cwebber

Re: “polluting”, my reply is: https://fedi.copyleft.org/@bkuhn/116426437134023846 (elsewhere in thread).

Re: “copyleft-only #LLM”: I didn't propose that. I proposed copylefting the human-modified output of LLMs.

Re: “two scenarios”: IMO you propose a false dichotomy.

I hope you come to one of #SFC's public sessions on this, as I'd be glad to talk more about it, & this discussion doesn't lend itself to online debate because it's so complex.

cc: @ossguy @richardfontana
@jedbrown

#AI #OpenSource #FOSS

@dalias
Any complex public policy litigation takes ≥ 10 years to make its way through the Courts. *Thaler* was an anomaly precisely because Thaler narrowed the issue on purpose to a pointless degree (just to make a point, apparently).
The reason copyleft exists is because rather than wait for the Courts & legislature to make good law, we used the existing system against itself.

I propose we design a series of moves that can do the same for LLM-backed genAI.

@cwebber @zacchiro @richardfontana

@cwebber

If there was ever a time in 40+ years of #FOSS history to tell our #copyleft-hating FOSS friends that they erred in their license choices, now is the time.

If they don't switch, they're giving hand-outs to the proprietary software companies. Now, in an entirely new & #disturbing way.

I really think these cases where proprietary software ends up in #LLM training sets & actually creates risk are exceedingly rare, if not entirely hypothetical.

Cc: @bwana @zacchiro @richardfontana

@richardfontana wrote:
> “oh I mean of course you could use LLMs to help with the analysis ”

I'm catching up backwards on this thread, but do you see now the monster you created by telling @evan that?

🤣

cc: @cwebber @ossguy @karen

LLM-backed genAI never makes as good jokes as you do, @evan

But are you finally coming clean with us here today that, in fact, #EvanPoll's are all created by a genAI system?

Cc: @richardfontana @cwebber @ossguy @karen

@evan wrote:

> “I consider myself an expert on this process since I learned about it 45 minutes ago ”

This is the second time you've made me 🤣 in this thread. Thanks for being comic relief (and I know that's not *all* you're doing, but that part is particularly helpful). Thank you!

Cc:
@richardfontana @cwebber @ossguy
@karen

@evan

I actually think that these copyright concepts aren't particularly automatable, and even if we try, its pure arms race.

And the merger doctrine isn't the big problem here, it is the more complex analysis where merger doctrine clearly doesn't apply that needs analysis and I suspect the analysis is difficult to (even partially) automate.

But I'm looking into it.

Cf: chardet situation https://github.com/chardet/chardet/issues/355#issuecomment-4145369025

@richardfontana @cwebber @ossguy

@cwebber

I agree with @ossguy in particular because if *we* are copylefting our code (even if assisted by #LLM-backed gen-#AI), we won't face a copyleft claim later.

Furthermore, it is highly unlikely these LLMs are (a) trained on proprietary software, and (b) any proprietary software company that so-trained would later claim infringement.

#Microsoft has all but admitted they refuse to train Copilot on their own code anyway.

Cc: @LordCaramac @richardfontana

https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2026/apr/15/eternal-november-generative-ai-llm/ now reflects what I thought was posted hours ago. Sorry for the confusion.

You all got an insight into how much you have to draft & redraft to consider difficult policy questions. Anyone who works in policy drafted a dozen things that were not quite right before getting it right.

Anyway, if you still think it's terrible, I refer you to all my other posts from this evening. 😆

@ossguy @josh @wwahammy @linux_mclinuxface @burnoutqueen @cwebber @silverwizard @mjw @mmu_man

@wwahammy

Where did @ossguy argue that upstream should accept LLM-backed AI generated code of “substantial size”. I don't see that in his blog post.

Cc: @josh @silverwizard @ossguy @karen @kees

I just noticed the version posted didn't incorporate various final edits. I've been defending *that* version of the post (which almost no one saw) *not* the one you all read.

@ossguy confirmed some final changes may have been lost (possibly moving from Etherpad to website).

@ossguy & I are working to fix that now.
The disconnect this evening hopefully makes sense now. I'll reply to this post when we've updated the public URL.

Cc: @josh @wwahammy @linux_mclinuxface
@burnoutqueen
@cwebber

@cwebber I think maybe you missed https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2026/mar/04/scotus-deny-cert-dc-circuit-thaler-appeal-llm-ai/ where #SFC analyzed that situation?
Also, follow @ai_cases & see the *firehose* of litigation on this & remember the “Work Based on the Program” issue under GPLv2 has still never been litigated directly but lots of cases about 100% proprietary software have bolstered GPL's strength.

Big Content has legal battles with Big Tech on 100s of fronts rn. Yes, we're adrift on their sea, but the situation is not as dire as you imagine.

#AI #LLW

👀 … https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2026/apr/15/eternal-november-generative-ai-llm/ …my colleague Denver Gingerich writes: newcomers' extensive reliance on LLM-backed generative AI is comparable to the Eternal September onslaught to USENET in 1993. I was on USENET extensively then; I confirm the disruption was indeed similar. I urge you to read his essay, think about it, & join Denver, me, & others at the following datetimes…
$ date -d '2026-04-21 15:00 UTC'
$ date -d '2026-04-28 23:00 UTC'
…in https://bbb-new.sfconservancy.org/rooms/welcome-llm-gen-ai-users-to-foss/join
#AI #LLM #OpenSource

@evan

When my (our) generation was dubbed Generation X, I thought “well that's some post-modern bullshit”. I'm a weird GenX myself as my parents are/were young baby boomers parents. (Most GenX have Silent Generation parents).

This idea that a letter (not a word) defines our generation … it is what our #punk rock nihilism communicated.

The idea that those behind us are defined by a bullshit letter sequence now? 🤢

IMO Gen Alpha (AA) will be our new Greatest Generation. I have faith in them.

@evan I'm unsure how to vote. My job requires me to stare at screens all day long.

Does that count?

If so, I'm easily 15+.

As I told my mother in the 1980s, not all screen time (although not called that in those days) should be counted the same. Huge difference between playing video games and writing software, IMO.

Or, there days, reading policy document PDFs and drafting policy stuff in emacs vs. watching reruns of ST:VOY.

@amszmidt

The issues are more complicated than that. You're conflating them; I am not sure I can help you understand better with further answers rn, but please do read my past works on the subject linked to in this thread, & watch for future publications that #SFC is working on now that we hope will delineate some of these conflated issues.

I've spent at least 100 hours of work on this stuff, & is indeed easy to conflate, so I don't blame you for being confused.

@hajovonta @photex @downey