@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta@thefinn Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the whole pantheon concept also already on its way out in Greece/Rome by the time Christianity arrived on the doorstep? Plato's Forms, the Stoic's Logos Spermatikos and such
@thefinn@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta This reminds me that we in the West (US specifically) have a really bad idea of the "pantheon" concept in general and tend to picture some Cosmic Justice League thing where everyone was worshipped instead of the gods having localized entities each with their own traditions of worship in different city centers
@thefinn@mjdigspigs@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta It's feelings-based, though it's described as piety-based. The only way to self measure piety though is to do what "feels" pious. Puritanical Protestantism was measured by outward success; if you were blessed and truly pious (and truly saved by a Calvinistic god), you would have lands and goods and so on.
That model didn't catch on with the many waves of poor immigrants over the next hundred or so years, so it became more Quaker and Methodist influenced; how close do you "feel" to God?
On his missionary travels, Saint Patrick came to Rathcroghan near Tulsk. At the well of Clebach beside Cruachan (probably today's Tobercrogheer), he pauses for a rest.
Rathcroghan, the rath of Croghan, is an ancient Celtic royal burial place, rich in earthworks and earlier megalithic remains. The seven-foot-high standing stone in the middle of a ring-fort is said to mark the burial place of the pagan monarch Daithi.
While Patrick and his clerics are assembled at the well, two royal maidens, fair Ethne and red-haired Fedelma, come to wash their hands. These two daughters of Loeghaire are being brought up in Connacht by the two wizards, the brothers Mael and Caplait. Surprised at the strange appearance of the monks and priests, the girls ask them who they are, and where they come from. Patrick replies that it were better for them to believe in the true God than to ask such questions.
Ethne then asks him:
What is God? Where is God. And of whom is God? And where is God's dwelling place? Does your God have sons and daughters? Has he gold and silver? Is he immortal? Is he beautiful? Have many people fostered his son? Are his daughters beautiful and beloved of men? Is he in heaven or on earth? Or on the plain? In what manner does he come to us? In the mountains? In the glens? Is he young or old? Tell us of him, in what manner is he seen?
Filled with the Holy Spirit, Patrick answers them:
Our God is the God of all men, the God of Heaven and Earth, of seas and rivers, of Sun and Moon and stars, of high mountains and deep valleys, the God over Heaven and in Heaven and on Earth, and in the sea and in all that is therein. He informs all these things, he brings life to all things, he surpasses all things, he sustains all things. He gives light to the Sun, and to the Moon by night. He makes fountains in the dry land and islands in the seas, and he sets the stars in their places. He has a Son, co-eternal with himself and in his own likeness. Neither is the Son younger than the Father, nor the Father older than the Son. And the Holy Spirit breathes in them. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit cannot be divided. In truth I wish to unite you to the Heavenly King, you who until now are the daughters of an earthly king. Believe!
With one voice and heart, the two girls answer: In what way can we believe in the Heavenly King? Instruct us most diligently so that we may see him face to face, inform us and whatever you tell us we will do.
Patrick asks them if they believe that in baptism the sin of their father and mother will be cast off, to which they reply We believe.
Patrick asks them if they believe in repentance after sin, in life after death, in resurrection on the Day of Judgement, in the oneness of the Church. To all of these questions the girls reply We believe.
They are then baptized, Patrick blesses the white veils over their heads, and they beg to see the face of Christ. Patrick tells them that until they receive Communion and taste death, they cannot see Christ's face. They reply: Give us the Communion so that we may see the Son, our Bridegroom.
They receive the Holy Eucharist and fall asleep in death. They are wrapped together in one shroud, and are greatly bewailed by their friends.
The Druid Caplait, the foster-father of one of the girls, comes to Patrick lamenting. Patrick preaches to him and he, too, believes, and is baptized and tonsured. The other Druid, Caplait's brother Mael, comes to Patrick to tell him that he will bring his brother back to the pagan creed, but Patrick preaches to Mael also, and he, too, is converted, and tonsured.
When the days of keening the kings' daughters came to an end, they buried them beside the well of Clebach and made a round ditch in the fashion of a ferta. That was the custom of the heathen Irish. But we call it relic, that is, the remains of the girls.
And the ferta was granted in perpetuity to Patrick and his heirs after him, along with the bones of the holy girls. He built an earthen church in that place.
One of the most interesting traditions around Theophany/Epiphany is the Blessing of the Waters, in which a priest will exorcise a body of water and rededicate it to God using holy water. Catechumens are also often still baptized on this day.
Theophany is the Feast which reveals the Most Holy Trinity to the world through the Baptism of the Lord (Mt.3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22). God the Father spoke from Heaven about the Son, the Son was baptized by Saint John the Forerunner, and the Holy Spirit descended upon the Son in the form of a dove. From ancient times this Feast was called the Day of Illumination and the Feast of Lights, since God is Light and has appeared to illumine “those who sat in darkness,” and “in the region of the shadow of death” (Mt.4:16), and to save the fallen race of mankind by grace.
The Holy Theophany of our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ the entire holy Church of God celebrates today, performing a vigil from the evening. After arriving at thirty years of age, our Lord wanted to manifest Himself to people that He was God in body. When the Lord was baptized by John, God the Father testified from above with His voice and the occurrence of the Holy Spirit, that He was His Son truly and consubstantially. From that moment He became known to all through His miracles, and His lofty teachings, that He was indeed God, Who through the Prophets was clearly proclaimed.
He came to Baptism for this cause. When the Lord became man on our behalf, He fulfilled the law throughout His entire life. Because John came from the desert and was baptizing at the Jordan, according to the word of God spoken to him, that is according to the ordinance and the law of God, as the Evangelist Luke says (Lk. 3:2), our Lord wanted to fulfill this word as a divine law. This took place after He had reached thirty years of age, when He went to be baptized by John the Baptist, as others were doing, though He had no need to be baptized, being without sin. John, being reverent towards the Lord and aware of his own unworthiness, said: "I have need to be baptized by You, but You come to me?" But the Lord encouraged and urged John to baptize Him, showing him that what he thought was unfitting, was indeed fitting, namely that the Master should be baptized by the servant. For this reason He said to him: "Let it be so. It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way." Righteousness is here called by the Lord the fulfillment of all the commandments, according to the divine Chrysostom (Discourse on Baptism), as if He said: "Since I fulfilled all the commandments of the divine law, this one alone remained, which is why I must fulfill this one also."
Then John let go of his resistance, and the Lord was baptized by him, and immediately came up out of the water. And behold the heavens opened, and John saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming to Jesus. And a voice came from the heavens saying: "This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased." By this was manifested to the Jews, that John was not greater than Christ, as it was falsely assumed by many about him. Rather he was incomparably much lower than Christ, being His servant and subject. For this reason the Spirit descended, bringing down the voice of the Father to Jesus, and He clearly showed as if with a finger, that "This is My beloved Son" was not spoken about John the Baptist, although he possessed great glory and office, but it was spoken about the baptized Jesus.
In the ancient Church it was the custom to baptize catechumens at the Vespers of Theophany, so that Baptism also is revealed as the spiritual illumination of mankind. The origin of the Feast of Theophany goes back to Apostolic times, and it is mentioned in The Apostolic Constitutions (Book V:13). From the second century we have the testimony of Saint Clement of Alexandria concerning the celebration of the Baptism of the Lord, and the night vigil before this Feast.
On the Feast of the Baptism of Christ, the Holy Church proclaims our faith in the most sublime mystery, incomprehensible to human intellect, of one God in three Persons. It teaches us to confess and glorify the Holy Trinity, one in Essence and Undivided. It exposes and overthrows the errors of ancient teachings which attempted to explain the Creator of the world by reason, and in human terms.
The Church shows the necessity of Baptism for believers in Christ, and it inspires us with a sense of deep gratitude for the illumination and purification of our sinful nature. The Church teaches that our salvation and cleansing from sin is possible only by the power of the grace of the Holy Spirit, therefore it is necessary to preserve worthily these gifts of the grace of holy Baptism, keeping clean this priceless garb, for “As many as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ” (Gal 3:27).
On the day of Theophany, all foods are permitted, even if the Feast falls on a Wednesday or Friday.
The baptism of Christ split the heavens, That those without defilement may enter therein. On the sixth the Forerunner baptized Christ in the river.
@BowsacNoodle I believe the three visitors to be symbolic of the Trinity, but not the actual Trinity. God the Father never appears in a form that can be reckoned by humans and if I recall He says to Moses later that He simply can't be seen, man would die from being faced with the Incomprehensible. Also, in the next chapter the two men with the Lord are explicitly referenced as angels. They are very beautifully symbolic of the Trinity however and at one point I believe they are referred to as acting as one. "They said" and so on.
Sarah's inner thoughts and the Lord's calling her out is an important bit to remember, especially when reading the gospels. The gospel writers, particularly Matthew, consistently call back to this interaction by using similar language. Someone thinks something "within themselves" then the Lord responds, "Why do you...?" The gospel writers saw Jesus as the same Lord that interacted with Abraham and the rest of the forefathers.
@db I would seriously look into getting your house blessed if this is happening. I know the Orthodox do it and I believe the Catholics do as well. You can always bless it yourself, do regular prayers and make the sign of the cross under doorways, but ymmv
The fact you can't stop thinking about her means you're more likely dealing with an egregoric demon entity than any ghostly spirit. They latch on to the residual soul left in places by the departed and spread fear. They're rarely physically harmful like in the movies but you'll be uneasy and restless until you spiritually cleanse the place.
@branman65@BowsacNoodle@whiteman_ It's the robes of the Great Schema, the highest order of monasticism within Orthodoxy. I believe there are only ever a few monks in the order at any given time.
"The ultimate goal of a Monk is the Order of the Great Schema (or Angelic Habit). One who aspired to that dignity usually struggled for many years in the monastic life and often it was not conferred until the end of a Monk's life. Those who reached that state usually spent the rest of their lives in complete seclusion and silence within the Monastery or a specially-prepared Skete or Hermitage, where laymen could not enter even to pray."
@SuperSnekFriend@BowsacNoodle I'm glad you mentioned this! It's an old argument I still see trotted out sometimes. I agree it had nothing to do with what was offered or even "how" it was offered, procedurally speaking, but the state of Cain's heart.
Cain's heart and deeds were evil and the entire story of Cain is one of a man who doesn't seek repentance. God gently chides him for the state of his heart and even tells Can his sacrifice will be accepted if he subdues the sin crouching outside. (As a side note, I've always loved the crouching imagery, as it brings to mind a beast ready to pounce, an active participant, demonic in origin [1 Peter 5:8]) Cain refuses to subdue his passions, gives in to them, murders his brother, lies to God. Then, even after God places a curse on him, Cain shows no sign of remorse or sorrow for anyone other than himself! He is worried only that people will take vengeance on him! Unrepentant and sinful to the end.
Thus, while Adam brings death into the world, Cain is often visualized as the father of sin, due to his unrepentant heart, as seen in 1 John 3 or Jude.
You think I'm joking? (Sorry, wanted to find one with just clips of the show but couldn't find one without someone talking over it so take what you get)
The mural portrait was found during an excavation at the Old Monastery of Taxiarches in Aigialeia, southern Greece, known as the so-called Palaiomonastiri, which was founded by Venerable Leontios of Monemvasia at the end of the 14th century. We know from the Byzantine historian Laonikos Chalkokondyles that Constantine’s brothers, Demetrios and Thomas, financed the renovation of the monastery when they were co-despots of Morea in 1449.
It seems this remarkable find survived because it was hidden beneath a layer of frescos. Archaeologist Dr. Anastasia Koumousi, Director of the Ephorate of Antiquities of Achaia, identified the second layer of frescoes, which, based on stylistic criteria, is safely dated to the mid-15th century. Likely it was commissioned by Emperor Constantine's brothers by a painter from Mystras, where Emperor Constantine lived for five years, and who had seen the emperor. It is not idealistic or standardized as a portrait. It is authentic and accurately renders the physiognomic features of the last Roman emperor.
Until now, there were no surviving images from the lifetime of this pivotal figure — the heroic Emperor of Rome who gave his life defending Constantinople during its final siege by the Ottomans in 1453.
Looking at his face, you can sense the calm, focus, and regal determination of a man who knew the immense task ahead and the sacrifice he was destined to make.
The painting depicts a bearded man wearing a diademed crown with an illuminated halo behind his head. He holds a cruciform scepter and wears a purple cloak embroidered with gold. The garment is decorated with medallions, most prominently a double-headed eagle, emblem of the Palaiologos Dynasty of emperors and senior members of the imperial family. The crown between the two eagle heads identifies the subject as the emperor himself.
The holy Martyr Nestor was very young in age, handsome in appearance, and he was known to the holy Great Martyr Demetrios (October 26), for he had instructed Nestor in the faith.
The Emperor was visiting Thessaloniki, and he built a high platform in the midst of the city so that a gigantic barbarian named Lyaios could wrestle there and be seen by everyone. Beneath the platform many spears and other sharp weapons were placed pointing upward. When Lyaios defeated his opponents, he threw them down onto the spears and they died. Many Christians were forced to fight Lyaios, and were killed. When Nestor saw how Emperor Maximian rejoiced over the victories of his champion, he disdained his pride. Seeing the miracles of Saint Demetrios, however, he took courage and went to the prison where the holy Martyr was confined, and fell at his feet.
“Pray for me, O Servant of God Demetrios,” he said, “that by your prayers, God may help me to beat Lyaios, and put an end to him who brings reproach upon the Christians.”
The Saint, after sealing Nestor with the Sign of the Cross, told him that he would prevail over Lyaios, and then suffer for Christ. Nestor mounted the platform without fear and exclaimed: “Help me, O God of Demetrios.” After he defeated Lyaios, he hurled him down onto the spears, where he gave up his wretched soul.
Maximian became enraged and ordered that both Nestor and Demetrios should be put to death. Saint Demetrios was stabbed with spears, and Saint Nestor was beheaded. Thus, by his example Saint Nestor teaches us that in every human challenge we must say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do to me.” (Psalm 117/118:6, Hebrews 13:6).