@youronlyone@c.im I agree, but I also think the fediverse deserves this reductionism because it feels very much like it itself struggles to see itself as more than a series of clones with an additional "feature" in non-profit OSS decentralisation.
The whole time there's been scope to really organically create platforms that are very distinct from the latest wave of big-social apps, and that interconnect and interoperate with each other in interesting user-driven ways. But that just hasn't happened (yet?). Instead, all of the platforms are fairly isolated and vertically siloed projects where the servers are the only first-class citizens and the users are left to "manage" all on their own the restrictions and difficulties of being stuck on servers.
And so the "feature" of federated decentralisation isn't necessarily that much to write home about. It's something, for sure, but when all of the platforms are clearly clones and the very dominant platform is an unashamedly hard twitter clone, I'm going to happily continue calling these platforms the clones they are until something new happens.
For instance, #calckey is not a twitter clone. I don't know what it resembles. It's been described as wordpress + twitter, which works. Apart from #friendica, it's the only platform I've seen trying to forge something new and richer.
I think one area we need to start re-shaping is how to explain things about the fediverse.
Example, we say: * Pixelfed is “Instagram-like” * Mastodon is “Tweetdeck-like” or “Twitter-like” * Friendica and Hubzilla as “Facebook-like” * BookWyrm as “Goodreads-like” * PeerTube as “YouTube-like”
By the way, I'm one of those who explain it this way. ^_~
The way I see it is we are anchoring these different fediverse services to those silo services, when we shouldn't. This, I assume, leads to unfair expectations against the fediverse software.
When Instagram first showed up, I don't recall we called it “Flickr-like”. Or, when Facebook launched, I don't recall it was ever referenced as “Friendster-like” or “MySpace-like”. We treated them as-is, a new service. The lack of an anchor prevented us from having a set of expectations, instead we explored these new services.
However, let's also admit that it makes it easier to explain by using existing services. So, the question is this:
What's the best way to explain Instagram-like, Twitter-like, Facebook-like, and so on, without using more tech words like “microblogging”, “macroblogging“, etc.?
Share your ideas in this thread. Maybe, just maybe, by re-anchoring things to the fediverse, things can be better here and there. It won't be perfect, but it should at least make some difference, right?
@clacke Maybe you should see whether #Friendica lets you turn off "direct messages" from non-mutuals. I think the wave of #spam is going to highlight how many settings default in the wrong direction.
I don't think the network is anywhere near ready to deal with organized spammers.
Some thoughts about #fullsearch of federated-with instances. 🧵 1/2
1. Conflating any ill will you have with Supernovae at #Universeodon, with the issue of search indexing on the Fediverse to justify your fediblock won't help resolve the issues around search.
2. It isn't global search. While we shout, lock down, and don't participate in building the additions to our protocols that the #Fediverse needs, we've been letting #Google index the Fediverse. It's already searchable and Google's new Perspectives tab is going to make it even easier. Maybe we could fight that rather than keep thinking it doesn't exist and continuing to write ineffective Facebook-viral style "I do not give permission..." copypasta?
I would like to endorse other minor web apps in the #Fediverse, but most of them are full of UI glitches, are incomplete and downright buggy looking odd things.
From my designer point of view #Mastodon and #Pixelfed are the only effective ones, because they speak to people who are used to proper visual design language (read: Non-nerds, non-engineers, the regular people and design oriented people).
Things like #BookWyrm, #Lemmy, #Friendica and newer niche apps cause reactions like: "What is this?", they look like back end is fine but nobody is in charge of the design and the UI has no direction whatsoever. It's the general culprit in the programming world: A back end developer thinks everything is fine when we add a CSS framework and that's that.
If we just get the UI right everywhere, we get more people to the #Fediverse. I just wish there was more #CSS/design people willing to contribute. #UI#UIDesign
With hashtags, you can only see content if: 1. you are following that hashtag (in Mastodon -- by the way, following a hashtag was a very recent feature in Mastodon); or watching that word/keyword (in #Calckey)
(Also, if a post is "unlisted", it won't appear in hashtags even if there are hashtags, but will still be seen through groups.)
2. you will only see content that your instance is aware of
But with groups, a content is “boosted” by the groups account, which is then seen by anyone following it, even those not yet known by your instance.
For example, I created a new solo instance. If I post using only hashtags, since it is a new instance, my status update will only be seen in servers already aware of my instance. However, if I tag a federated group, it will be seen by everyone following that group.
Or, if I am a new user, my #ObservableFediverse is very small that it does indeed feel lonely and the system is broken (people have forgotten that they started similarly in other #SNS). I have to follow people, discover users from other servers, to grow my Observable Fediverse. However, if I follow one or two groups, I will immediately see status updates from everywhere.
PS It's not new actually. Federated groups has been around since 2008 when the first #fediverse software was released (called #Laconica, which was renamed to #StatusNet, then renamed and known today as #GNUsocial). And #Mastodon finally approved adding its own groups feature. There are also #Friendica and #Hubzilla (both far older than Mastodon and still exists today), and #Streams with group features.
It will depend on the platform. For example, #Friendica (and to an extent #Hubzilla and #Streams), the owner of the group (and anyone else given moderation access) can block accounts. There is also chirp.social which can also block accounts.
Then there is #GNUsocial, which is a rebranded #StatusNet itself a rebranded #Laconica (the first #Fediverse software, c. 2008) have built-in groups feature; which IIRC, can also block users if needed.
Personally, services like Guppe really need to add moderation features, otherwise, what you just described will more likely happen.
It's so easy that you probably don't even notice you're doing it already now.
You follow the group exactly like you follow a Mastodon user.
At least in the cases of Guppe, Lemmy, /kbin and Friendica groups/forums, you post to them by mentioning them like you'd mention a Mastodon user. Interaction with groups/forums on Hubzilla and (streams) is somewhat different; I've yet to find out how well it works.
#Mastodon feels like it has to implement them. The #Fediverse doesn't have to implement them because they are already implemented.
@Fediverse News is on #Friendica which is not a modified Mastodon instance, but a project of its very own. When Mastodon was launched in 2016, Friendica had already been around for 6 years with a full-blown group/forum functionality.
Groups/forums in the Fediverse are actually older than the Fediverse itself.
Like #Friendica, /kbin can ban trolls from participating in groups.
Unlike Friendica, you can remove posts local to where the group is hosted.
Unfortunately, the offending comments still appears in user timelines because other Fediverse servers do not delete after comments are removed locally.
Another alternative could be #Calckey which supports groups through "Channels". However these do *NOT* federate.
The main reason why I can't move from my current #Pleroma installation to anything else ( #Akkoma, #Misskey, #Calckey, #Hubzilla or #Friendica ) is that none of them accept importing an existing backup from a different service into a brand-new account. At most you can migrate your address but not your posts.