Aral Balkan
We’re looking to buy a place in Ireland (because renting here is nigh on impossible these days) and so I approached a mortgage broker and they just got back to me with this gem:
“Bank of Ireland will not consider your mortgage application because you run a not-for-profit.”
How bloody lovely.
Congratulations on creating a system that rewards the worst of the worst and fucks over those striving to work for the common good. I, for one, wont be shedding a tear should it burn to the ground.
Aral Balkan
@losttourist Don’t know but thanks for the pointer, I’ll have a look.
Flippin' eck, Tucker!
@aral That's bonkers. Although Bank of Ireland so I'm not totally surprised.
I assume you have the equivalent of UK's building societies in Ireland, they'd presumably have somewhat less capitalist lending criteria. Maybe? Hopefully?
Aral Balkan
@jimfl Darn thing is, it burning to the ground is not going to be fun for anyone. I’d much rather see us building bridges to better places so we can avoid that future. That’s why I’m working on what I’m working on – to try and build alternatives we can transition to peacefully. But, equally, neither will I lift a have to stop anyone who wants to burn it to the ground. Because they’re right; it deserves to be.
Jim Flanagan
@aral look on the bright side. It looks like all systems burning to the ground is now inevitable.
Aral Balkan
@chris Don’t know. Other lenders have apparently been more welcoming. 🤷♂️
Chris Wiegman
@aral JFC! Sorry to here this, Aral. Are there other places to get a mortgage? Here we have credit unions and other ways if a bank says no.
Aral Balkan
@osslate Thanks, Fionn, will do :)
Fionn
@aral depending on how much you're looking for, check out your local credit union if you haven't already. A lot of them provide mortgages and at competitive rates, though the limit is lower than most banks.
Aral Balkan
@jonahbk I know, right? These fuckers would’ve shot Bambi between the eyes just to see how it feels.
Jay Bikay PhD
@aral what in the world?
Aral Balkan
@chris Thanks. Fingers crossed. 💕
Chris Wiegman
@aral Good luck. A guy on my team (Greek, but living in Galway) is going through a lot of the same. Here's to hoping y'all can find something that can work for everyone without continued disruption.
Aral Balkan
@meepdw Basically, this.
MeepDelightfulWalrus 🏳️🌈
@aral "Sorry Mr Balkan, you are insufficiently evil. You can apply for a mortgage again when you've drowned some puppies, made a classroom full of small children cry, and created an auditable history of problematic posts on Twitter"
Aral Balkan
@globcoco Thanks, Coralie. I guess we’ll see. Haven’t really gotten a break yet but one can hope :)
💕
Coralie Renée
@aral wtf, this is f...... nuts. Hopefully there are better Banks... 🤞
Aral Balkan
@lasombra I believe the system is working exactly as designed.
lalalala sombra
@aral That's one of the biggest fuck ups I've ever heard.
Absolutely insane!
Chris Ferdinandi ⚓️
@aral what the actual fuck
Aral Balkan
@cferdinandi Welcome to late-stage capitalism or, as we like to call it, Fuck You as a Service™
Aral Balkan
@Sh41 Yeah, they apparently said they would at least consider our application and not reject it because we’re not-for-profit.
Raul Portales
@aral the fact that we are just down 2 banks does not make it any easier :(
I heard Avant are decent, I almost switched to those when KBC closed.
Raul Portales
@aral if it makes you feel better, they almost rejected my pre-approved mortgage because I resigned to get a new job that was paying 20% more.
And if you are a freelancer is another nightmare. I can imagine the same logic (or lack of thereof) applies to non-profit
Aral Balkan
@lasombra Indeed.
💕
lalalala sombra
@aral Right you are.
It's just a huge shame, is all.
Aral Balkan
@globcoco I’ll have a look around. A few folks have suggested building societies.
Coralie Renée
@aral hi Aral 😊
Are there Banks like triodos who are "supposed" to be less... Bank and more helpful? (I think I am living in lalaland but one can hope 🤣)
Aral Balkan
@cferdinandi Indeed. I like to think I’m pretty aware of how depraved it is and even I’m often surprised.
Chris Ferdinandi ⚓️
@aral I know in the US self-employed folks sometimes run into this, but... "you run a nonprofit so fuck off" is a new level of capitalist fuckery to me!
Aral Balkan
@amaditalks As I was saying to someone else, we’re living in the Fuck You as a Service™ stage of capitalism.
Amadi Lovelace
@aral I have a friend in Ireland, her husband works for an EU company, but they are American citizens. They’ve applied for a mortgage and they’ve been told that her income cannot be considered toward their qualification because her employer is in the US with no EU offices, but her student loan payments count against them, even though they are also in the US.
Aral Balkan
@octonion Thanks, I might watch that while sobbing with a bottle of wine or something :)
Popstar Tourist
@aral That's horrific, you have my sympathy.
This won't help and probably won't tell you anything you don't already know, but if you're in the mood for two hours of eloquent and entertaining rage about housing in Ireland in particular:
Aral Balkan
@deightonrobbie Thanks, but I had a look at Ireland and it showed n26. That’s the bank that has Peter Thiel as an investor. So, I’m not entirely sure about their criteria. But thank you for trying, appreciate it :)
account moved
Aral Balkan
@apples_and_pears Apparently it does. I’ll be looking into these tomorrow:
https://www.creditunion.ie/what-we-offer/mortgages/
If there’s a way to do this without involving fucking banks, I’m all for it :)
Dave
@aral Does Ireland have Credit Unions (owned by members, for members, and not-for-profit)? Same concept as cooperatives only it's banking instead of product.
GhostOnTheHalfShell
@aral Are there not other banks?
Aral Balkan
@GhostOnTheHalfShell There are.
dodothedev :arch_linux::emacs:
@aral
Wow, that sucks.
I used to work for a bank. I had to stop working for them to get a mortgage with them (on not much of an improved salary). When I asked the mortgage advisor, he snorted and said "not on your wage!" When I asked if there were any deals for workers, he just said "none that will benefit you".
Aral Balkan
@dodothedev Wow. Several four-letter words come to mind.
Aral Balkan
@anniechen0815 Hey Annie,
Yeah, I’m going to look into credit unions tomorrow and the broker is talking to other lenders.
Annie Chen
@aral If you believe that you have encountered unfair treatment or discrimination, it may be beneficial to seek advice from legal professionals or financial experts who can provide guidance on your options and potential avenues for addressing the issue. Additionally, researching other mortgage providers or consulting different mortgage brokers might help you find alternatives that are more accommodating to your situation
Aral Balkan
@nxskok Yeah, it was the broker I contacted who relayed the info from Bank of Ireland after contacting them.
Ken Butler
@aral do you have the equivalent of mortgage brokers in Ireland that can shop around for a mortgage that fits your circumstances?
Aral Balkan
Amadi Lovelace
@aral that is a magnificent description. I’m going to have to use that one on occasion.
Aral Balkan
@craiggrannell And to think, the fuckers literally create money out of thin air the moment they approve your loan. The only one placing any “real” (existing) money down is you, with your deposit. I hope some folks are sharpening their guillotines as we speak.
Craig Grannell
@aral Although if my situation last time was anything to go by, the UK is no better. Tossed out my US earnings, because it was “overseas work”. Then dumped all my UK freelance because it was “not guaranteed income”.
I hope you have more luck.
Aral Balkan
@georg Thanks. It’s a shitty system. And we’re not even remotely close to being the worst screwed by it. Personally, I think it’s a miracle (or a testament to family/local community support) that folks in Ireland aren’t in the streets with pitchforks and torches.
Georg
@aral im sorry for this
Aral Balkan
@BenAveling @globcoco Yeah, but in this case, it’s not about that. It’s because we run a not for profit. Otherwise, we’re on PAYE and we check all the boxes.
Ben Aveling
@globcoco @aral It's at least partially an overreaction to the real estate boom and bust. Things used to be way too "here, have money", and they've overcorrected.
The amount you can borrow is up to 4 times gross income for first-time-buyers and 3.5 times gross income for other buyers.
e.g, a first-time buyer couple with a combined income of €100,000 can borrow up to €400,000.
A second and subsequent buyer with the same income can borrow up €350,000.
https://www.centralbank.ie/consumer-hub/explainers/what-are-the-mortgage-measures
Aral Balkan
@Beedazzled Your guess is as good as mine. All I know is that they refused to even consider our mortgage application because we work at our not-for-profit.
Jo
@aral so do they refuse to give mortgages to everyone who works for charities?
Craig Grannell
@aral I found it quite something that the reasoning was I could lose my freelance income at any moment, apparently. Despite my five years of accounts. I noted anyone on PAYE could also lose their income at any moment, but that apparently is totally different, for reasons.
Aral Balkan
@craiggrannell Yeah, and the funny thing is we’re on PAYE at Small Technology Foundation but apparently that doesn’t even matter because “you own more than 30% of the company.” Umm, it’s limited by guarantee; I own 0% of “the company”… because no one “owns” “the company” – it’s a not for profit that has no shares.
“That’s not how they see it.”
Oh, well, that’s ok, then.
Aral Balkan
@globcoco @BenAveling It can have assets but it cannot make a profit. So we don’t have ownership/shares and we cannot take dividends. Any money not spent on costs (including salaries) stays in the organisation.
Coralie Renée
@aral If this is the ONLY reason, this is crap mate (excuse my French). I really don't get this.
I'm gonna ask a very stupid question (which might show my ignorance here... I'm sorry in advance):
Does it mean that non-profit can't have assets? (I told you)
Ken Butler
@aral well, I hope they're working on something else for you.
Aral Balkan
@nxskok Yeah, they’re talking to a few others who haven’t rejected our application sight unseen just because I don’t work at Google or some other evil corporation.
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