Notices by AP-AT-Bridge Group (activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social), page 2

@jamie @HistoPol @chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews @snarfed I already posted a similar question. https://social.cologne/@agrinova/111932268169103522

@shiri

(1/2)

"If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices... then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn't involve starting over from scratch."

How so? I have not read that you can migrate you #BlueSky account to another #Fediverse platform, say, #friendica

However, for me the single biggest #exit barrier is, that I...

@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@jamie @chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Okay, this is the other side. On the other hand, one can admit that we discuss about a bridge to bluesky, but if, anywhere in the world, a server would join the fediverse spreading hatred, bad thoughts and dangerous algorithms, nobody would discuss.
Anyway. Before the new bridge service starts, I would strongly recommend to deal with European data protection laws for they are stronger in the EU than elsewhere.

@shiri

Thanks for going to such great length in explaining all this to a non-techie. :)

I have some questions, though:
"When this bridge goes live, you might be followed by #Friendica instances over the bridge."

My understanding was, that all present platforms of the #Fediverse you the AcitivityPub protocoll and can thus federate and I know I do have followers from, say, Friendica instances. So, why the bridge for them?

@jamie @oliphant @luca @PCOWandre @m @chronohart @snarfed

For journalists the value of the fediverse is in not getting silenced. It's here to amplify voices in that fashion so that nobody can be silenced, for good or ill (ie. you can block Nazi instances so you don't see them, but you can't stop a Nazi instance from existing or sharing content).

If you operate in a "I control where my message goes" manner, then you're operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.

It's one of those fundamental things where you can't have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach.

And when talking about the fight against fascism, uncontrolled spread is very much preferable as they can't silence you. If you are careful in your security you can post from an account until the fascists shut down your server... but the post will still be out there floating around. And you can just as easily stay on the network by starting a new account every time they shut down a server... they'd have to shut down the whole network to stop you.

Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can't shut down your server they'd have to shut down every single bridge... which new ones can be started with trivial ease (a lot less work and resources than starting up normal instances).

There's nothing they can do to you over a bridge that they can't already do without a bridge, in fact they have less control through a bridge. But you on the other hand have your voice amplified even further.

Additionally the whole fediverse gets stronger as it encourages development on both sides, if one starts lagging behind in features/quality it permits users to move without "leaving" the fediverse.

If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices... then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn't involve starting over from scratch.

@HistoPol @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@shiri

(1/2)

"Your only option to broadly exclude certain entities from the fediverse is to put the entire fediverse under a central control... but then you're at the whims of whomever controls it and we're back at the same problem as before with Twitter, Facebook, and the like..."

Exactly, A no-go.
No, it must be exactly the opposite.
The internet was designed to withstand an attack from outside, so that...

@jamie @oliphant @luca @PCOWandre @m @chronohart @snarfed

Thing is that only the opposite is possible. Because standards are open anybody can join. When this bridge goes live, you might be followed by Friendica instances over the bridge because the AT Protocol is a true fediverse even if it was designed by a corporate entity and it's first server was a corporate server.

But once that goes live, they also have absolutely no control over it after that. They won't have control or access to your posts between two AT instances unless one of those is the original Bluesky itself.

And because protocols are open, there's nothing that can be done about that... without again limiting reach. Your only option to broadly exclude certain entities from the fediverse is to put the entire fediverse under a central control... but then you're at the whims of whomever controls it and we're back at the same problem as before with Twitter, Facebook, and the like...

@HistoPol @jamie @oliphant @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed @m

@shiri @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

(6/n)

...#PredictivePolicing. 8)

*2024 certainly isn't the year to remain silent:*

#Poland lost and regained its democracy twice already.

The *US* might lose it to a ruthless autocrat in 2025.

And #Ukraine is fighting tooth and nail for its #democracy.

//

FOOTNOTES:

1) https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/12/2024-elections-around-world/

2) https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/111086529042597457

3) https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110079043525873237

4) https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110565890923413442

...

@agrinova
@chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews

That takes a lot of time, and as someone in IT, most people take the defaults and are SHOCKED to learn some features exist. 😁

Having this behave like the rest of the fediverse accelerates the awareness and usefulness of the bridge.

You can more rapidly achieve the goal of allowing people to connect and converse. That is after all why the fediverse exists. The rest of this is semantics.

@m

"If you wish to prevent this you have to ensure that none of the people that follow you also doesn't follow someone on a service you don't like."

I would not even know how to go about this. In fact, I am not opposed to my content going to any real #Fediverse platform, i.e. that are not-for-profit/corporate.
My issue are #BigTech platforms because of the agenda they have (see earlier #intro for a brief summary.)

@jamie @shiri @snarfed @PCOWandre @oliphant @luca @chronohart

@jamie I would disagree. First, only a few people would use the bridge. But then the new connection would spread out like a seed - slowly, but spread. Then the number of bridge users will grow exponentially. That means, an opt-in (or at least no pure opt-out) would be a good option.
@chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews

@shiri

Thanks for the explanation, Shiri.
I pay attention to such thinks, but even with hindsight, I do not see such a group reference.
On #Mastodon, groups are also possible, but I forgot how to use them, as I used them so little.

@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@HistoPol
@chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews

This is a really good question and I don't know the answer. This is the kinda of thing I think we should be asking about the bridge.

@snarfed do you know the answer to this?

It's because that's not the bridge, that's a Friendica group about working on such bridges. Friendica supports group accounts that you post to by tagging the group.

Group accounts work by boosting every post that tags them.

The initial post was made to the Fediverse News, Fediverse Developer Discussion, and AP-AT-Bridge Group groups, which is why you'll see them boosting almost every comment throughout this entire thread. Anyone who didn't explicitly removed them from the references is posting to that group as well.

The bridge will not appear as a single account. The bridge will translate accounts through it, so if I made an account named Shiri on the official bluesky server, then followed you through the bridge you would see a follow request from shiri:bsky.social@bsky.brid.gy (name formatting probably will differ slightly), likewise that would be the name that would appear for everything I do through the bridge with your account.

If you wanted to block my specific bluesky account from accessing your account, you could block it as normal and it'll work just the same as it always has.

With # NoBridge in your bio, when I go to look up your account through the bridge I either won't get anything at all as if you don't exist or it'll tell me that you've opted out of the bridge.

@HistoPol @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@shiri @snarfed.org @csepp no. Our freedom of choice is not being respected here. This is bad and will explode. You cant force us against our will.

@activitypubblueskybridge
AP-AT-BridgeGroup

Very interesting, how is it possible that you boosted my #Intro thread, even though I have #NoBridge in my bio and am not even a member of your group?!?

@shiri @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@shiri @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

(1/n)

I think I owe you a quick #INTRO, as I have not been in contact with you before, so you might better understand my concerns.

I am a political commentator, as well as an activist. This is why I cannot remain silent:

This is a global super-election year. #Democracy is up for grabs in about 50 countries.1)--This is how the billionaires and the #autocrats like #Putin and #Xi see it, or how #YoelRoth...

@HistoPol @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed The gist is that if you want to prevent your posts from being shared outside of screenshots and quote-posts (where the contents of the post are just copied) the only option is to join a whitelist-only server.

These are servers that federate only with explicitly approved servers, ie. if someone tries to connect from any instance not on that list they're blocked by default.

That's kinda the root of the argument here where a great many people have a false assumption that the fediverse is about control of your data when it is quite the opposite. It's like trying to protect your art from being used by others... by marking it Creative Commons.

The entire design of all federated systems is around open sharing, you can only get control over how your posts spread in a closed system with little or no federation.

As far as whether or not you use those platforms, my example was regardless of whether you're a user.

My server federates across multiple different protocols, if I boost your post then your post is probably being made available to multiple different networks automatically.

The protections and control involved in federated networks is not in how your data is shared, but in how your access is controlled.

In the fediverse you don't have to worry about a bad admin blocking your access to everyone you know, you can freely move accounts between instances. If you piss of Elon for instance, you're cut off from Twitter and everyone on it... full stop... but if you piss off your instance admin, you just move instances and can still connect with everyone.

It's also control over your experience in that you're not relying purely on what their algorithms think you should see. If the instance your on has an algorithm set up that you don't like, then you can move instances to one that has the algorithm you like.

You also have protections against enshittification (the process by which those other networks will draw you in with great features, and then once you're locked in slowly shut down or degrade those features). If features that are important to you start getting shut down on your server... you can move to one that keeps them. If a platform developer does it, another developer can fork the project to keep those features alive.

You also have choice in terms of clients and experiences. You're using Mastodon and I'm on Friendica (I know your instance type because Friendica shows me a little icon beside posts). I vastly prefer the Friendica experience, and I have the choice to use that. And I can use that without forcing you to use the same interface.

@scott In short, it's just like blocking one-by-one but as batch-action. Admins can also block domains using wildcards, I think.

However, either would not work to block specific software. You would indeed have to use an instance in limited federation mode, where each connection is checked one-by-one, to avoid federating with Friendica and Hubzilla instances that could copy your posts over to other protocols.