@nyanide i posted there when i was younger (I'm a long time linux user for the record) and tried to understand people's POVs and give genuinely balanced takes and explanations but i don't think this sub is genuinely about learning and constrictive criticism it's just a hate subreddit
@nyanide it is funny how many redditards follow the herd and install arch then hate it. if you are going to be a casual user then install a distro meant for casuals
@mischievoustomato@gray@nyanide genuine skill issue. If you pick as a new user Gentoo/Arch/Artix/Nix and then complain that shit does not work, you made that uninformed decision.
@nyanide I keep saying it, the Linux community is bad. And he's right, most of the good software you associate with Linux is available on Windows too. So there's little incentive in switching to Linux in the first place.
Until user friendliness becomes a priority, Linux is not a good choice for a desktop OS for the average user. It's a good choice for some programmers, people who like to tinker, and maybe some other niche users. But not for... pretty much everyone else on Earth.
@alyx@nyanide >Until user friendliness becomes a priority, Linux is not a good choice for a desktop OS for the average user.
I don't want to derail this thread more, but I don't want Linux to be good for the average user. The developers that already have this kind of thinking now are making Linux worse every month and most of them want to turn it into a mobile OS with full on permissions for everything. I simply don't want that.
@nyanide Honestly... I can live without package managers. It's definitely an useful feature Linux has, but at times, especially when I was in the Ubuntu ecosystem, I just wanted the ability to download a .exe equivalent setup file from a webpage, and know it will "just work". Ubuntu had .deb at the time, but those could be hit or miss if the dev didn't package for the latest Ubuntu version. These days, AppImage is a good equivalent, but not everyone uses them. And I have trust issues with Snap and Flatpaks that devs seem to prefer.
These days, arch repositories & AUR really do seem to have everything, so haven't felt that "just give me a damn .exe!" need in many years. But software packaging is still a mess in Linux overall. Too many package managers, too many standards. Windows keeping it somewhat simple is a big benefit for the average users I talk about.
@alyx I'm a god damn schizoid nowadays and like having all my software up to my date on my system, it used to be impossible to keep my old windows systems up to date because I had installed tons of software. It's also a skill issue in some ways but if I end up in this situation again, I better be able to update everything.
>But software packaging is still a mess in Linux overall. Too many package managers, too many standards.
Actually true, christ almighty some aspects of Linux are legitimately cucked because of weird distro maintainers.
@alyx@nyanide >the Linux community is bad Good. >there's little incentive in switching to Linux in the first place. Good. >Linux is not a good choice for a desktop OS for the average user. Good. >But not for... pretty much everyone else on Earth. GOOD.
@alyx@nyanide >Windows keeping it somewhat simple is a big benefit for the average users I talk about. That's mostly a end-user abstraction. Creating a Windows installer package is one of the worst experiences someone can have in developing software. Much much worse than what Linux has to offer in terms of rpm or even dpkg. Pure horror.
>the rest... I agree with most. Packaging software for multiple distros is insane especially since you have to support like 4 version of Ubuntu, 3 Fedora versions, 2 openSUSE versions. Most of those issues could be eliminated by throwing away point release distros for desktops though. They serve little to no purpose anyway.
@nyanide The schizoid thing got me moving away from Ubuntu too, so I get it. For me it wasn't necesarily an issue of getting all software up to date, but I'd hear "Gimp has this new feature!", and then I'd discover Ubuntu wouldn't put it in for several months. And I've had issues with PPAs too... so I wanted out. Solution for me was Manjaro and currently Endeavour. Together with KDE, I'm actually happy right now.
I have days when I think about going Windows again, but not strong enough to actually do it. But I also don't want to change my distro unless someone pays me a lot.
@phnt@alyx@nyanide Wayland be like: how do i change resolution? UHMMM, USE CASE FOR CHANGING RESOLUTION????? how do i change the refresh rate UHMMM, USE CASE FOR CHANGING REFRESH RATE???
@phnt@alyx@nyanide Linux is 'user friendly' enough anyways. There are full, complete desktop environments, most better than that of windows. I don't know how linux could become 'more' user friendly.
@nyanide@alyx@sysrq so Linux will become considered useful by the general public? I haven't used NT because I am just a general user so I can't confirm if it sucks myself but maybe NT sucks because Microsoft made it?
@branman65@alyx@sysrq Anyways, you have all this ridiculous stuff that megacorps would have to squeeze into Unix, like gui apps to abstract the main attraction of Unix-likes away for Loonix.
Everything is a file? More like everything is a graphical application. In NT, they still have support for legacy psuedo-devices (low budget block devices, files you can write to and the device will react according to what you wrote) that were designed for versions of DOS that did not support folders.
@nyanide >using nuthinkpads that was a rookie mistake also everything else on his list is a meme >neovim reddit gayshit, just use vim dude >hyprland reddit gayshit >Ghostty reddit gayshit >arch reddit gayshit
@nyanide@mischievoustomato oh yeah? how about 255 char limits on paths breaking shit on Windows? or computer names getting truncated at 15 characters on a domain but still keeping the longer name everywhere else? Or how .NET 3.5 just never fucking installs right with update services in play? Or how user certificates are a totally different cert store from computer certificates? Or how Win32 services don't delete if you leave services.msc open? Or how you can tie identities to random DCOM services which then break if the identity password changes? Or how the SQL server browser uses UDP packets to query SQL server for whatever the dynamic RPC port du jour is if you don't specify the usual 1433 static port? Or how if the PDC of one forest goes down you can't do cross-forest AD auth anymore in a two way trust? Or how Microsoft thinks it's cool to charge twice for hotpatching by making you use Azure Arc, adding an unnecessary cloud dependency for on-prem servers, and then once more for the privilege of not having to reboot? Or how nothing ever works nicely if UPN doesn't match email address these days? Does this squirt even know the difference between sAMAccountName and a UPN?
It was probably either a bot or someone making their posts and comments more visible by downvoting yours. These are things known to exist and a few at once can get you down to -3 easily. It's just a thing that happens sometimes, don't worry about it you'll be up again soon.
Asking a basic question?
Add in people who are gatekeeping jerks. Even on subs specifically for basic questions (including/r/NoStupidQuestions) or welcoming of newbies to a hobby, there are people who will insist you are a big lame dumb face for asking stuff and downvote you for it. Yes, even on posts in those subs specifically for newbies asking newbie questions.
Yes, even if you say you googled and couldn't find it or googled and didn't understand. Don't worry about these jerks they're really not the majority in most subs, some are super gatekeepy though.
Having a discussion about a topic to which there are two significantly different sides? Disagree downvotes shouldn't happen, but often do and without comment as to why. Even if you intent your comment as impartial, people will read into it. Be prepared.
Still think something's wrong with what you put out there and you just don't know what?
check the subreddit's rules (on mobile that's the three dots in the top right corner of the sub's frontpage. Community info.) and make sure you didn't break any.
Make sure your comment actually adds to discussion.
Oh I didn't know I had to carefully make sure every comment I make adds good to the world
Low effort comments are seen as spam on reddit and reddit dislikes spam. This is the way of reddit, and your annoyance at this fact does not change anything except your karma which is lower for complaining.
If you used emojis, that's the reason. some people super hate them.
Does your comment make sense? 'specially on mobile with auto correct issues or if you did a fair bit of editing before posting, sometimes things get real messed up without you realising and it goes word salad.
Check your tone, Text only can be a difficult way to get things across and we can unintentionally come across as being aggressive, which can go down poorly.
@PurpCat@7666@mischievoustomato X is an extremely cheap shot here because it has accumulated decades worth of technical debt and is consequenctly a clusterfuck to work with. This isn't even a complaint with Loonix even just X h8. Which is always valid.
"If you sit down at a friend’s Macintosh, with its single mouse button, you can use it with no problems. If you sit down at a friend’s Windows box, with two buttons, you can use it, again with no problems. But just try making sense of a friend’s X terminal: three buttons, each one programmed a different way to perform a different function on each different day of the week—and that’s before you consider combinations like control-left-button, shift-right-button, control-shift-meta-middle-button, and so on. Things are not much better from the programmer’s point of view."
"If the designers of X-Windows built cars, there would be no fewer than five steering wheels hidden about the cockpit, none of which followed the same principles -- but you'd be able to shift gears with your car stereo. Useful feature, that. - Marus J. Ranum, Digital Equipment Corporation "
The quotes here aren't about technical debt but about the UI of UNIX in the 90s where nobody gave two shits and a fuck about a desktop anyone could use. There were so many bizarre desktops while Apple and MSFT were making desktops a human could use, that is before the Windows 8 Fiasco.
@mischievoustomato@nyanide wait til grandma gets hit with a dialog box telling her to go fuck herself after making C:\Users\Grandma\Documents\Important Files\Memories\Pictures Of My Grandson From 2022\Grandson's Vacation to Italy\August 5th (Day 2)\My Personal Favorites\Pictures from Bill Leland's Phone\The Roman Colosseum Tour\Interior Shots\PXL_20220805_145605328.MP.jpg
@alyx@gameliberty.club@nyanide@lab.nyanide.com Until user friendliness becomes a priorityThe thing is that GNU+Linux is very user friendly already. It will allow any user to customize it exactly to their desires, and allow them to do so with relatively little effort. It doesn't try to fuck you over every time a big corpo decides they don't like the way you use your computer.