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1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 02:47:20 JST Paul Cantrell

   It would, I think, be genuinely useful if Chuck Schumer were politically ruined after last week.

   There’s a limit to how useful it actually is to direct our energies specifically at elected politicians right now. BUT: institutional leaders of many stripes (.gov, .edu, .org, and .com alike) are still acting much, much more afraid of the consequences of •fighting• than they are of the consequences of •compliance•.

   We can change that. Make compliance ruin some high-profile careers. Make examples out of a few people. Schumer. Newsom. The Columbia admin. Tar and feather them. https://flipboard.com/@vanityfair/top-stories-ur1oga9sz/-/a-CUoIJMw5TYa3em_8zTUjJg%3Aa%3A3195374-%2F0

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 02:59:57 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Speaking of which:

     What’s going on at Columbia? What’s the state of the resistance there?

     Columbia just •rescinded• degrees they’d granted. This wasn’t even just a politically motived expulsion, which would already be utterly horrifying. They ••revoked diplomas•• already granted.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:02:22 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     That means if you get a degree from Columbia, you might suddenly, at the political whim of any random president, not have a degree anymore. All that money you paid, all that work you did? Poof! It can disappear overnight!

     Can you imagine?! Can you imagine what that does to the expected value of a Columbia degree??

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:03:19 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     If I were a prospective student, I would really think twice about accepting an offer from Columbia now. Nope nope nope.

     And if I were a current student, an alum, faculty…well, I’d be out for administrators’ heads on pikes (figuratively speaking), because everything I’ve invested in that place is going up in smoke.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:10:46 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jesse Morris

     @aubilenon
     That second part is the thing.

     Sure, a sympathetic human looking at your resume might understand. But an unsympathetic human? Someone skimming resumes, weeding the pile? An official form that simply asks whether you have a degree, without room for explanation? An official policy that doesn’t bend? Some might escape all that, but for others the real consequences could be devastating.

   • Embed this notice
     Jesse Morris (aubilenon@peoplemaking.games)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:10:48 JST Jesse Morris

     in reply to

     @inthehands That seems kind of meaningless as a mode of censure. If the people affected were to list “Degree from Columbia, later revoked” on their C.V., with a footnote linking to this whole idiocy, whose hiring or further education admission decisions would that affect?

     OTOH it sure does make it less appealing to apply to and spend 4 years working one's butt off to _get_ a degree from Columbia, the idea that you are forever after beholden to their political agenda.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:11:08 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird
     Wild indeed.

     (Did CMU do something too? I totally missed that.)

   • Embed this notice
     myrmepropagandist (futurebird@sauropods.win)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:11:09 JST myrmepropagandist

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     I expect this from CMU. (It's an evil college.) But I had a little more esteem for Columbia... you know, just a little. This is wild.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:13:17 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     An elite college degree is an investment with a payoff horizon of 20 or 40 or 60 years. It’s costly — not just in money, but in time, energy, years of life. People are only willing to invest in it because they believe the investment will endure.

     If a Columbia degree is like a cheap roof that might just leak or collapse at any time, what’s their case? “Give us four years of your life, drain your savings, go into debt! Everything you worked for •might not• suddenly collapse!! Our degrees are just cheap paper anyway, right??”

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:14:33 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Professor_Stevens

     @Professor_Stevens
     Honestly, I hope she does. I hope there’s a walkout. I hope the whole semester just…stops midway through. I hope the school finds itself looking down the slope of complete ruin as a result of this. I hope no administrator gets a night of sleep.

     If she explodes, she’ll have my back.

   • Embed this notice
     Professor_Stevens (professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:14:34 JST Professor_Stevens

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     A family member is faculty there. I can assure you, she is on the verge of exploding.

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:14:47 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird
     Got it. Sigh.

   • Embed this notice
     myrmepropagandist (futurebird@sauropods.win)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:14:49 JST myrmepropagandist

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     It's more what they aren't doing. If they aren't howling and crying right now they are still huffing DOD dollars as they always have.

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff Rizzo (jeffrizzo@sfba.social)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:22:44 JST Jeff Rizzo

     in reply to

     @inthehands I really like that framing - make them more afraid of compliance than they are of fighting.

     Now to figure out some strategies to effect that!

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:25:17 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • J H Libby

     Yes, strategies like this from @jhlibby:
     https://newsie.social/@jhlibby/114179160299839205

     You don’t even have to sue them out of existence. You just have to make the administration believe that they •could• face a devastating lawsuit.

     Make them more afraid of complying with fascists than they are of fighting fascists. Make compliance existentially dangerous.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:50:30 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     And look, in the unlikely event that anyone reading this actually thinks this was a reasonable thing for Columbia to do, if you think “oh, •those• students deserved it“…

     …I want you to ask yourself, honestly, whether you can imagine the Trump administration ordering Columbia to rescind the degrees of — say — trans graduates. And I want you to ask yourself, honestly, whether you can imagine the current leadership of Columbia refusing that order.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:53:31 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Steve Hersey

     Now •there’s• a good question from @n1xnx.

     A good question, and a possible avenue for applying pressure.

     https://tilde.zone/@n1xnx/114179272234120261

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:57:47 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Madeleine Morris

     @Remittancegirl
     I see I boosted it already, so now I’m boosting your reply! Keep shouting it!

   • Embed this notice
     Madeleine Morris (remittancegirl@mstdn.social)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 03:57:49 JST Madeleine Morris

     in reply to

     @inthehands Yes. I have a thread about it.

     It completely erases the concept of what a degree is.

     https://mstdn.social/@Remittancegirl/114177558707667037

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 04:01:27 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • John
     • J H Libby

     @johnzajac @jhlibby
     I mean, I teach it one of those alternatives that you’re talking about, so you’re singing my tune. But I do not celebrate the destruction of one of the Ivies; we’re all in the one boat here, and if it sinks, it’s cold comfort that the other end is sinking first.

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     John (johnzajac@dice.camp)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 04:01:28 JST John

     in reply to

     • J H Libby

     @inthehands @jhlibby

     Absent proven academic fraud, I don't honestly believe it's possible for a university to "revoke" a degree without opening themselves up to a huge civil lawsuit. And, hopefully, those civil lawsuits will manifest.

     Aside from that, it's obvious that Ivy League schools are no longer rigorous institutions or capable of fulfilling their missions. I suspect that more and more of the *actually* talented people will choose lib arts alternatives, leaving the Ivy to the legacies.

   • Embed this notice
     Jenniferplusplus (jenniferplusplus@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 04:03:07 JST Jenniferplusplus

     in reply to

     @inthehands If they can just revoke degrees, where does it end? What's to stop them from retroactively revoking scholarships? Or from modifying the authorship of papers? Why not revoke the enrollment itself? If a president, or a donor, or a regent just doesn't like you or your politics, it seems that Columbia thinks they can just obliterate any portion of your life that has touched that university.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 04:40:58 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jenniferplusplus
     • Dan Wineman

     @dwineman @jenniferplusplus
     AIUI, the degrees were •already granted•. In what sense that means “not alumni,” I’m not sure.

     And yes, it’s “temporary” as in “we’re gauging the reaction and trying to figure out what we can get away with.” Executives tend to be profoundly fear-driven people, especially at large institutions; they’ll hedge and waffle until the end of time.

     That’s why pushback now is so important. If this blows up in their face, I’m sure they’ll have been “just reviewing” and never mind; if it buys them favor, then of course the “temporary” part was just a bit of perfunctory due process on the way to permanent recovation.

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     Dan Wineman (dwineman@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 04:40:59 JST Dan Wineman

     in reply to

     • Jenniferplusplus

     @jenniferplusplus @inthehands Not to diminish any of this, but it looks like the degree revocations are temporary, and for “students” (not alumni), with some kind of process for reinstatement. I can’t tell if this means they’ve revoked the potential to earn a degree, or revoked already-earned undergrad degrees from current graduate students, or what. But these details seem to have been overlooked by everyone posting about it.

     https://communications.news.columbia.edu/news/university-statement-regarding-ujb-determinations

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 05:40:20 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷

     @KimSJ
     You are singing the tune of my pinned post!
     https://innig.net/teaching/liberal-arts-manifesto

   • Embed this notice
     Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷 (kimsj@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 05:40:21 JST Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷

     in reply to

     @inthehands
     I hate how university education is nowadays seen entirely in terms of its future financial payoff.
     What happened to personal development, to love of knowledge for knowledge sake, to becoming a person who can benefit society?

   • Embed this notice
     i.grok (igrok@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 06:04:04 JST i.grok

     in reply to

     @inthehands I looked at articles in their student paper

     They aren't ignoring it, but it's not their headline story either. There is a statement by the School of Journalism faculty on their front page. A reference to outside protests. IMHO it seems pretty tepid.

     If there are on-campus protests happening, the paper isn't reporting it yet.

     Meanwhile at least one other university (that had their own protests & were closely following the events at Columbia University last year) is *completely* silent in their student paper. 😞

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Mar-2025 06:11:41 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • i.grok

     @igrok
     To be fair, student papers usually have a slower turnaround than mainstream news outlets. And I hope that’s what it is.

     But I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a heavy thumb from above on what that paper can publish.

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     aburka 🫣 (aburka@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 06:53:30 JST aburka 🫣

     in reply to

     @inthehands problem is who wants to be the first to call for heads on pikes, when they've already demonstrated willingness to revoke degrees for wrongthink

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 08:39:11 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • aburka 🫣

     @aburka Has to be a coordinated effort.

   • Embed this notice
     aburka 🫣 (aburka@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 08:41:08 JST aburka 🫣

     in reply to

     @inthehands yep. And I have to imagine a lot of people are thinking at the moment "well, the leopards would never revoke MY degree... right?"

   • Embed this notice
     Frank Casa (frank@frank.casa)'s status on Thursday, 20-Mar-2025 00:33:07 JST Frank Casa

     in reply to
     @Paul Cantrell I think we are witnessing a split in the Democrats. There has always been several factions within the Democrats, and which faction had the most power has always fluctuated.