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1. Embed this notice
   SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:28:29 JST SuperDicq

   Anyone else feel like this anime season just feels kinda meh?
   
   Are you watching anything this season? I am currently not.

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:33:13 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq Newer アニメ is too proprietary and contains too much proprietary software.
     
     Older アニメ tends to lack proprietary software and often has a base level of quality.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:51:34 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com I don't know what the fuck you're talking about because all of the anime I download are in free video formats.
     
     Or are you talking about the software that the producers of the show used to create the show?

     hor32 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:56:08 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Wait, I think I get what you really mean.
     
     Please don't tell me you're one of those ultra GNU autists that considers an anime "unwatchable" because the fictional people in the fictional show use fictional proprietary software?
     
     Like "Macrosoft Winding" in Angel Beats.

     hor32 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:56:41 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq I'm writing about how modern ones portray demon rectangles and other proprietary software being run, which is much less common in older Chinese cartoons.
     snacks and nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:58:25 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq >ultra GNU autists
     I was professionally diagnosed not autistic, but I am ultra-GNU.
     
     It does ruin the experience if the characters are surrendering their freedom to proprietary software, although in most cases it's not so bad to make the show unwatchable.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 22:58:37 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Dude, it's fiction.
     
     I feel like I'm making lolicon discussion type arguments but the fucking proprietary software in the anime isn't real bro...

     snacks likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:00:41 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq It would be fine if total proprietary death was implemented, as the proprietary software in the anime would be mere fiction as it doesn't exist in reality, but the proprietary software in the anime does actually have a real implementation.
   • Embed this notice
     wormthen (authen@brain.worm.pink)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:01:33 JST wormthen

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:03:44 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com I mean usually anime uses parody brands and doesn't actually show real software?

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:06:45 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq It depends, but often despite the parodied brand, it's pretty obvious that microsoft windows is being run in Angel Beats even though it's called "Macrosoft Winding".
     
     It's really a massive disappointment, as the characters could as easily been running GNU, or a made up OS name but nooo.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:11:34 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Parody brand names are just funny easter eggs.
     
     The actual OS that they are using does not matter for the plot whatsoever.
     
     They probably choose to make their parody OS resemble Windows because that's definitely most likely what a highschool student would be running in Japan.
     
     Also it is very likely that the animators are not aware that GNU even exists in the first place. So can you really blame them?

   • Embed this notice
     waifu (waifu@mai.waifuism.life)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:13:27 JST waifu

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo You're assuming "Macrosoft Winding" is proprietary though, unless explicitly mentioned, you can't know, considering it's a parody of an operating system it may as well be what it isn't. Maybe in the anime universe "Macrosoft Winding" is the Libre operating system and "Laanex" is proprietary

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:16:02 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • waifu

     @waifu@mai.waifuism.life @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Yeah another good point.
     
     Unless they show the actual software license on screen you do not know for sure.

     waifu likes this.
     snacks and Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     GNU/Gabi (gabi@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:29:39 JST GNU/Gabi

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki
     >the fucking proprietary software in the anime isn't real bro...
     Software is information, and information is not material, but it exists. That means proprietary software in an anime is real.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:33:18 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • waifu
     @SuperDicq @waifu It seems I can tell which software is proprietary by feel now before I take a look at the license and it turns out it's proprietary and it seems such skill even works on anime.
     
     The thing that improves or decreases the quality of the anime is the portrayal of the proprietary software.
     
     Portraying proprietary software as a good thing decreases the quality.
     
     But it can increase the quality - Shimoneta for example contains lots of proprietary software, but it does a very good job of portraying the consequences of proprietary software.
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:, snacks and prettygood like this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:36:55 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • waifu
     @waifu >"Laanex" is proprietary
     The kernel, Linux is proprietary software in reality you know?
   • Embed this notice
     waifu (waifu@mai.waifuism.life)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:52:11 JST waifu

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo so you have no proof, got it

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:52:57 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     @menherahair @phnt @SuperDicq Ubuntu is proprietary software?: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html#Ubuntu
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:52:59 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq
     Yuki Installs Gentoo-S8s9uzPIqQ4.webm
   • Embed this notice
     menherahair (menherahair@eientei.org)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:52:59 JST menherahair

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq
   • Embed this notice
     waifu (waifu@mai.waifuism.life)'s status on Monday, 17-Feb-2025 23:55:14 JST waifu

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com not my problem

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:08:35 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew

     @coolboymew@shitposter.world Dude, this is a Spotify link. Hell no.
     
     If you want any chances of me listening to your podcast aka having a voice in the background while I'm focused on other tasks at least give it to me a free and DRM-free format.

   • Embed this notice
     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:08:36 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq It is. I've said so in the podcast too. Then again, I may have picked up the wrong things, this happens, but like 50% of the season is romance and isekai slop and jesus christ
     
     Next season wasn't looking too hot either but things have been added since then and it looks better
     
     Then again Winter and Summer usually are the suckier season of the year
     
     Catch up to:
     Bang Dream It's MyGo!!!!! so you can watch Bang Dream Ave Mujika
     Shangri-La Frontier
     Apothecary Diaries
     
     Also:
     Akuyaku Reijou Tensei Oji-san
     Taogare Hotel
     Ameku Takao no Suiri Karte
     Trillion Game
     
     Alternatively, just listen to the podcast ep
     
     podcast.headpat.agency
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:20:27 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • waifu
     @Suiseiseki @waifu @SuperDicq
     Boku no Pico is a great example of featured proprietary software, but warning of it's negative consequences.
     snacks likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:20:46 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Yomiel

     @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @coolboymew@shitposter.world This details page is not visible without proprietary javascript. Mega also does not work without proprietary javascript.

   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:20:49 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @SuperDicq @coolboymew
     It says mp3 download beneath with a mega link on the page.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:20:59 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • waifu
     • Yomiel
     @yomiel @waifu @SuperDicq I'll make sure not to watch that one extra hard then.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:21:52 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Yomiel
     @SuperDicq @coolboymew @yomiel >Mega also does not work without proprietary javascript.
     Mega also offers a free software downloader script - but it's a real pain in the neck to use.
   • Embed this notice
     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:23:10 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Yomiel
     @SuperDicq @yomiel bruh
     
     You can download shit from mega with jdownloader 2 and stuff
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:23:10 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Yomiel
     @coolboymew @SuperDicq @yomiel Jdownloader is proprietary software - absolutely degenerate.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:26:15 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Yomiel
     @yomiel @SuperDicq @coolboymew GNU/Jihad against "open source"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
     It's claimed that the license is GPLv3-ambigious, but if you look at the alleged sources and the proprietary plugins, that's clearly not the license.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:26:17 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • cool_boy_mew
     @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq @coolboymew
     https://support.jdownloader.org/en/knowledgebase/article/setup-ide-eclipse
     It's open source.
   • Embed this notice
     VIPPER (vipper@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:43:47 JST VIPPER

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq You are completely insane.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:44:36 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • VIPPER
     • Yomiel
     @yomiel @SuperDicq @VIPPER I don't lead the FSF, thus I don't see how they're relevant.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:44:37 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • VIPPER
     @VIPPER @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq
     The FSF has gone insane
   • Embed this notice
     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:45:03 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq
     
     >I was professionally diagnosed not autistic
     
     I'd ask for a second diagnostic
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 00:51:33 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew @SuperDicq I'm not going to seek a diagnosis for a condition that I don't have.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:15:45 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • cool_boy_mew

     @coolboymew@shitposter.world @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Yeah, no neurotypical person in the world is this much into GNU and anime stuff at the same time. I definitely don't trust that diagnosis.

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:16:23 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     @SuperDicq @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic The mere existence of a nonfree repository is an encouragement to install proprietary software, even if enabling the repository is not generally recommended and is therefore a bad thing.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:16:24 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss

     @phnt@fluffytail.org @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @menherahair@eientei.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Yes. Debian actively encourages users to install nonfree packages which is a bad thing.
     
     For example you can install nonfree packages on GNU Guix as well via the "nonguix" repository. However this project does not encourage people to do so, which is good.

   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:16:25 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Protoss
     @Cyrillic @menherahair @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq FSF is still seething over Debian's choice in the 90's to create a contrib and non-free repo for proprietary drivers and open-source software that depends on proprietary software.
     
     Why you may ask? Because FSF was sponsoring Debian in those days and it was endorsed as one of those "all free" distros.
   • Embed this notice
     Protoss (cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:16:26 JST Protoss

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @SuperDicq >they have an option to only download free packages
     >this is a bad thing
     :insane:
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:16:30 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq >Gentoo are dismissed because it's *possible* to install nonfree software
     Gentoo actively recommends the installation of proprietary software, includes a proprietary license in "@FREE" and knowingly has the wrong license on many packages, meaning using Gentoo in freedom requires actively working around proprietary tricks.
     
     >It's not 'encouraged'
     Writing an ebuild that installs proprietary software and then putting that ebuild in a repository is recommending the installation of that proprietary software.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:16:31 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic
     Genuinely schizo logic btw. Nobody will take the FSF seriously when Distro's like Debian (pre-2022) and Gentoo are dismissed because it's *possible* to install nonfree software when they're some of the most free-software friendly distro's out there. Gentoo in particular is very good with the licensing issue and always informs the user a package is non-free and in fact blocks non-free by default.
     
     It's not 'encouraged', it's simply explained and is always made clear to the user the package they wish to install is non-free.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:28:03 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @Cyrillic @menherahair @phnt @SuperDicq There is no option to "only download free packages", as they only provide proprietary versions of Linux.
     
     The issue is how there's numerous recommendations to install proprietary software.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:28:51 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @SuperDicq @coolboymew Just because someone isn't a normie doesn't mean they are autistic.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:30:37 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     @phnt @menherahair @Cyrillic @SuperDicq The FSF has not done any seething - they have merely pointed out that recommending and maintaining proprietary software is unacceptable and the resulting slippery slope.
     
     Debian now is absolutely proprietary software that installs proprietary software without asking the user.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:38:44 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq >I have yet to encounter this wrongful tagging of software in Gentoo, by the way. I'm sure it exists but it's probably rare.
     Then you haven't looked - a large percentage of packages have the wrong license and all the Linux ebuild's should have LICENSE="GPL-2 no-source-code", but they are LICENSE="GPL-2"
     
     >Mixing non-free and free packages in a repo would normally be wrong, but Gentoo doesn't work that way.
     Gentoo does mix nonfree and free packages in the official repo - as a result, running `emerge --search` can return results of proprietary packages.
     
     >You can add ebuilds but not repo's.
     You can quite easily add ebuild repositories via /etc/portage/repos.conf
     
     >therefore (with the exception of wrongfully tagged packages) you can't accidentally install the wrong software.
     As there are many wrongly marked licenses and there is proprietary software in the official repo, you can accidentally install proprietary software.
     
     >Not once does Gentoo ever encourage installation of non-free software.
     Gentoo encourages installation of proprietary software in many places, including the wiki.
     
     >If you think Guix is okay despite the non-free nonguix repo
     Guix by default at least doesn't have that repo enabled, meaning you cannot accidentally install proprietary software.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:38:45 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq
     You're presupposing the repo's aren't separated however. I have yet to encounter this wrongful tagging of software in Gentoo, by the way. I'm sure it exists but it's probably rare.
     
     Mixing non-free and free packages in a repo would normally be wrong, but Gentoo doesn't work that way. There is no "other repo's" for Gentoo. You can add ebuilds but not repo's. The packages are tagged with a license, therefore (with the exception of wrongfully tagged packages) you can't accidentally install the wrong software. Not once does Gentoo ever encourage installation of non-free software.
     
     If you think Guix is okay despite the non-free nonguix repo, then I don't see how Gentoo which doesn't allow non-free by default is any different.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:57:05 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq >So, documentation = encouragement to you?
     Yes, if you write a proprietary ebuild that installs proprietary software and document instructions how to use proprietary software, you are endorsing the installation of proprietary software and encouraging people to use it - otherwise why on earth would you have written such ebuild and such instructions?
     
     >it depends to what level you'd hold a hardware store for selling a shitty hammer.
     If a hardware store stocks a hammer and offers it for sale, it's clearly encouraging the purchase of such hammer.
     
     >the non-free software in the Gentoo repo's is 'endorsed' in the sense it is not *literal* malware.
     Nonfree software is malware most of the time, thus Gentoo likely hosts many proprietary malware programs.
     
     >Gentoo never encourages use on non-free software.
     A lie doesn't become the truth just because you repeat it many times.
     
     >it endorses the security of some non-free software passively by hosting it
     Proprietary software has no security against the developer and often no security against anyone and hosting and maintaining an ebuild is an active rather than passive thing.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 01:57:06 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq
     It is unfortunate that this license mistagging has taken place, though you are yet to demonstrate it's scale.
     
     >as a result, running `emerge --search` can return results of proprietary packages.
     
     Keyword being can, but it always displays the license in this search. Plus attempting to install it will throw up an error telling the user they don't have that license enabled, then displaying that license.
     
     >Gentoo encourages installation of proprietary software in many places, including the wiki.
     
     So, documentation = encouragement to you? To me, encouragement means just that: to encourage. Encouraging someone to go on a journey even if they're scared would be to say "I know you're scared, but you'd enjoy going and I don't want you to miss out."
     
     This statement implies not just endorsement, but active recommendation. Not once does Gentoo either endorse non-free software, and NEVER does it encourage it.
     
     You could argue the hosting of something endorses it by default, it depends to what level you'd hold a hardware store for selling a shitty hammer. At best, the non-free software in the Gentoo repo's is 'endorsed' in the sense it is not *literal* malware.
     
     But encouragement is another thing all together, an advertisement almost. Unless you change the definition of encourage, Gentoo never encourages use on non-free software. At best, it endorses the security of some non-free software passively by hosting it, and that's being generous to your point.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:07:40 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     reality check: do you really believe it is not possible to install nonfree software on any of the recommended distros? or are you spreading disinformation deliberately?
     
     CC: @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
     
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:12:32 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Yomiel
     @yomiel >Yet it's you who keeps perverting the meaning of 'encourage'.
     It's not a perversion of meaning to point out that a word means what it means even though you come up with some bizarre roudabout explanation why it doesn't.
     
     >Gentoo dev's are not encouraging the use of non-free software
     You only write and distribute an ebuild and document it if you want to encourage people to install such software.
     
     If the ebuild developer didn't want to encourage the use of nonfree software, I'm sure they wouldn't have written such ebuild, or at least there would be a comment imploring the user not to use it - but there is no such comments.
     
     >but some people want/require this non-free software thus it's better to host it in a friendlier, more free environment
     Such proprietary environment cannot correctly be described as free or friendly - it's rather a less propriety environment than is more convenient.
     
     As soon as you add a single proprietary program, without even a plan to replace it, you put yourself on the road to proprietary hell.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:12:33 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq
     >A lie doesn't become the truth just because you repeat it many times.
     
     Yet it's you who keeps perverting the meaning of 'encourage'. I'm sure the dev's working at Gentoo would prefer all software in the world to be free and the source code to be available, but it's not.
     
     Gentoo dev's are not encouraging the use of non-free software, but some people want/require this non-free software thus it's better to host it in a friendlier, more free environment than for that user to say, use Ubuntu instead. Stallman himself made this point, no?
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:16:43 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @yomiel @lxo >is it a good thing for the user to have the freedom to install these packages or not?
     On any free OS, the user has the freedom to install whatever software they want.
     
     Although, if the user installs propriety software and proceeds to shoot their feet with it and blast proprietary shrapnel everywhere, that's clearly a bad thing.
     
     >if the user wants to and knows the risks, isn't it better for it to be well documented, vs the recommended distro's which leave you in the dark?
     If the user wants to and knows the consequences, they will be able to work out how to install it just fine.
     
     The only documentation proprietary software should have is reverse engineering documentation, to assist with replacement.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:16:46 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @lxo @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq
     So is it a good thing for the user to have the freedom to install these packages or not? Plus, if the user wants to and knows the risks, isn't it better for it to be well documented, vs the recommended distro's which leave you in the dark?
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:21:36 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Yomiel
     @yomiel >Package maintainers are not the guys who host the repo's
     Some package maintainers are the same guys who host the repos and both the hosts and packagers maintainers get to decide what goes into the repos.
     
     >the guys who host the repo's aren't necessarily the guys who code Gentoo
     Assuming that is the case, they are still making a recommendation, as they are choosing to hosting such ebuild's (rather than choosing not to host them).
     
     >That doesn't mean everyone in the chain does.
     Everyone in the chain that doesn't decline to support or host the proprietary ebuild's gives approval to the ebuild's.
     
     >Saying a Distro encourages a piece of software to me means prepackaging it or advertising it
     An ebuild is indeed pre-packaged and is indeed an advertisement.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:21:38 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki
     
     It's you who is misconstruing the meaning of the word 'encourage' constantly. Package maintainers are not the guys who host the repo's, and the guys who host the repo's aren't necessarily the guys who code Gentoo. I'm sure the guy who maintains one of the proprietary packages might like that software. That doesn't mean everyone in the chain does.
     
     Saying a Distro encourages a piece of software to me means prepackaging it or advertising it, not having a user written article and an ebuild voluntarily maintained by a random guy. I think it's you who's being dishonest to call that 'encouragement'.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:24:05 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     these are unrelated questions. respecting your freedom doesn't entail preventing you from engaging in self harm. ideally, you'd have at least the senses to not harm others around you, but imposing that on you ahead of time so that you didn't have a choice would be like DRM.
     
     now, software that takes control away from its users shouldn't even exist. when we get there, documentation on how to harm yourself by installing software that doesn't exist won't exist either, so it's not like having such documentation is necessary or desirable. but its inclusion shows where the includer stands: with the users, standing for their autonomy, or with those who wish to control the users through the software they use.
     
     CC: @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
     
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:25:23 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @yomiel @lxo >if someone wants to use non-free for whatever reason, it should be easy
     If someone wants to installing nonfree software, it should be hard, so they have adequate time to consider if they should make such mistake.
     
     If installing proprietary software is easy and convenient, then many users don't think twice about doing so and everyone loses.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 02:25:24 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @Suiseiseki @lxo
     This is just needlessly dumb. If I want to install a package, it should be as easy as possible regardless of it's licensing. What you're saying is make it more difficult for no reason on ideological grounds, which is just fucking dumb.
     
     I believe you should discourage using non-free software by blocking non-free packages by default. But if someone wants to use non-free for whatever reason, it should be easy, not having to manually find a binary from somewhere and having to assemble all the dependencies yourself.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:04:01 JST 

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @lxo >WIFI blobs restriction
     I remember broadcom-wl driver for BCM4360-based adapters being so abysmal it was plain easier to buy some cheap Atheros laptop card and a PCIe adapter for it than to endure constant connection hangs. At least with free WLAN drivers you could compain to the guy that maintains them.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:04:02 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @lxo @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq
     You are ideological to the point of foolishness. A true double think; that you are more free because you can't install software. I have the freedom to easily install practically any software.
     
     I choose only to run the free ones, of course, and block non-free from my system. But if I ever had to install support for say, RAR files, that it wouldn't be a massive pain the ass. I can quickly just edit my package.license file and selectively accept that license for just one package. I'm an adult, I'm capable of choosing what software I and don't install. Due to new users existing I recommend blocking non-free packages being installed by default, but having no documentation available because it's 'encouragement'? That's just plain dumb.
     
     Especially the WIFI blobs restriction which makes every FSF recommended Distro impossible to use for anyone with a Laptop (or their computers in a room that makes it hard to access the Ethernet cable)
     SuperDicq repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:10:01 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com There are many WiFi cards that work without nonfree blobs.
     
     Not including the proprietary WiFi blobs incentivizes people to start buying freedom respecting ones instead.
     
     If you include the nonfree drivers by default or make them easy to install you do not incentivize hardware manufacturers to release their drivers as free software.
     
     Imagine if you will if all major distros such as Debian, Fedora, etc. stopped shipping these nonfree drivers.
     
     Hardware companies that want their drivers to be included on these operating systems will now have to start releasing them as free software now!

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:10:28 JST 

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @lxo Not aware of any PCI blacklists on regular desktop mobos, I only seen Lenovo do this thing on some chinkpads so you have to patch the BIOS.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:10:30 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • 
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @mint @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @lxo
     Don't a lot of motherboards blacklist the older Atheros WIFI cards that support free drivers?
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:19:00 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @lxo
     
     >There are many WiFi cards that work without nonfree blobs.
     You understand you're now asking to run this operating system your asking people to go out and buy something just to run it? Most people wont do that. Especially not on a laptop.
     
     >Imagine if you will if all major distros such as Debian, Fedora, etc. stopped shipping these nonfree drivers.
     
     >Hardware companies that want their drivers to be included on these operating systems will now have to start releasing them as free software now!
     
     Beyond wishful thinking and straight into delusional. About the only thing that could fix it is the US government or EU demanding all firmware and drivers be open source.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 03:20:14 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br You understand you're now asking to run this operating system your asking people to go out and buy something just to run it?Simply just expecting any software to "just work" on any hardware is a very strange mentality to me.
     
     Normies understand that if you want to run Mac OS, you have to buy a Mac (even though in this case the reason Mac OS won't run on other hardware is artificial).
     
     It shouldn't be that hard of a concept to grasp for the average normie that if you want to run GNU/Linux you have to acquire hardware that is compatible as well.
     About the only thing that could fix it is the US government or EU demanding all firmware and drivers be open source.That is something that I definitely campaign for.

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 04:03:10 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     IMHO the freedom arises out of knowing that the software is harmful and thus choosing to avoid it. assuming you'll get more freedom by progressively giving others control over your computing and thus over you is as foolish as assuming that selling at a loss will earn you profits out of volume.
     
     the path to freedom, individual and collective, is to inform users so that they understand that others are trying to control them through the software they use, that the more they give up their freedom the harder it is to recover it and the easier it is for others to gain further control over their lives, and to avoid reinforcing the constant push that exploiters impose on users to go along the path that is most advantageous to them (the exploiters, not the users). only then, when these harmful pushes are canceled out, they (the users) can choose freely. before that, it's an illusion of choice, too distorted by harmful influences to be free.
     
     but yeah, you're free to harm yourself by poor software choices, and nobody's telling you otherwise. informing you that, by doing certain foolish things, you're sacrificing your freedom does not amount to stopping you from harming yourself; not handing you the manuals or the programs that you could use to harm yourself, that we don't even have ourselves, doesn't either. we just know that self harm won't help you in the long run, and that exploiters take advantage of short-term thinking to progressively increase their control over their victims, so we warn against that and don't help you with that. but ultimately it's your choice, and if you're determined to pursue self-harm and hand others control over your life, we can't stop you: we have no power over you.
     
     however, if you try to spread ideas of self-harm to others, we will try to counter that by attempting to inform and to influence them just the same. it's not like it's your spreading of these ideas that requires us to act: there are more than enough pushers of user-harmful software out there already, so we've got plenty of work to do already. but it would be definitely nicer if, instead of making our job hardware, you'd help us by inviting users gently to climb the freedom ladder at their own pace instead of teaching them to disparage us, to conform and to be controlled like most everyone else.
     
     CC: @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
     
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 04:48:23 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br You have to approach any issue from the issue of the majority of users.We think ensuring software freedom is more important than hardware support for the majority of users.
     But putting up these barriers of entry to most simply restricts new usersThe FSF is aware of this. That's why they have the freedom ladder campaign where you slowly work up from fully proprietary computing to fully free computing.
     I'm sure we'd both rather people used Trisquel than Ubuntu being usedIf you distributed Trisquel but included all the nonfree blobs with it, it would honestly be no different than using Ubuntu so no.
     I'd imagine the average experience of a brand new FSF user is going to the recommended page, downloading a random one on the list, then being confused when it doesn't detect WIFI on the installer setup.I don't think this will happen. All the FSF endorsed distros clearly state in their documentation that hardware that requires proprietary drivers is not supposed, usually specifically listing WiFi cards and such as well. The FSF also recommends people to look up all you hardware on h-node.org
     
     If people run into issues while ignoring all documentation I don't think you can really blame that on the FSF or these distros.

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 04:48:24 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @lxo
     It's not that I have this mindset personally, I bought and librebooted a Thinkpad. Linux has no prestige among anyone except non-nerds. MacOS does.
     
     You have to approach any issue from the issue of the majority of users.
     
     If Ubuntu, Debian, etc all switched to the Linux Libre kernel, there wouldn't be mass sales of old Atheros cards (Most of which aren't sold anymore), they'd just switch to some other Distro like Manjaro or something.
     
     I'd love for all hardware and software to be free, I really would. But putting up these barriers of entry to most simply restricts new users, especially of the free-er Distro's like the ones the FSF recommends.
     
     Imagine how many more users would use, say, Trisquel if it had an installer option with the non-free WIFI blobs enabled. It could be a seperate ISO, and I'm sure we'd both rather people used Trisquel than Ubuntu being used, right?
     
     I'd imagine the average experience of a brand new FSF user is going to the recommended page, downloading a random one on the list, then being confused when it doesn't detect WIFI on the installer setup. Then they probably just go back to Ubuntu, never to go down that rabbit hole again.
     
     My ideology is bringing as many people as close to freedom as possible. I think the FSF is obstructive to that goal.
   • Embed this notice
     GNU/Gabi (gabi@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 04:54:37 JST GNU/Gabi

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @lxo
     >You are ideological to the point of foolishness. A true double think; that you are more free because you can't install software. I have the freedom to easily install practically any software.
     First, let's clarify the terms, because if everyone interprets them however they want, the debate loses its meaning.
     
     Libertad, from the Latin libertas, derives from liber, meaning "a free person" in opposition to a slave. From this root, we understand that freedom involves not being subject to the will of another. This is how "freedom" is understood in my language. I’m not familiar with the ἐτυμολογία of "freedom", and if its meaning differs significantly, I’d be curious to learn about this novel concept of libertas. However, from what I can tell, both terms seem to point to the same idea: being free, in contrast to the slave, that is, to someone who is not the master of themselves.
     
     Now, if freedom is the ability to be the master of oneself, a question arises:
     
     Is someone more free if they can sell themselves into slavery than someone who cannot?
     
     At first glance, it seems like they are, since the former has the "freedom" to choose their own slavery. But if we look deeper, we see that once they make that choice, they stop being the master of themselves and thus lose their freedom.
     
     The paradox is clear: the act of giving up freedom, in itself, destroys freedom. Therefore, someone who cannot sell themselves into slavery is ultimately freer, because their freedom does not depend on a choice that could nullify it.
     
     This concept is universal and applies to software as well. As Richard Stallman says:
     
     "With software, either the users control the program or the program controls the users".
     
     A proprietary software has an owner. Evidently, that owner is not you. With free software, however, you own a copy of the program, with the ability to study, modify, and share it. If software is the tool you use to interact with your computer, then whoever controls the software controls your tool. And if your tool is under someone else’s control, your freedom within that environment is as well. The difference is clear: having the option to install any software is not freedom if, by doing so, you lose control over what it does to your computer. Just like the slave who chose their master, the user who chooses proprietary software surrenders their freedom in exchange for convenience.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:16:24 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @phnt @menherahair @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @yomiel @lxo I always found this conundrum hilarious. "What about the freedom to run whatever the hell I want?"
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:16:24 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @phnt@fluffytail.org @menherahair@eientei.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br >How is our society even free if I don't even have the freedom to sell myself out to slavery?

   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:16:25 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @Cyrillic @menherahair @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq @yomiel @lxo The irony in "free software must let you run the software however they want" and then block the user from loading proprietary drivers they need never seizes to amaze me. In the name of fully free-software solutions, let's break one of the core principles.
   • Embed this notice
     Protoss (cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:16:26 JST Protoss

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @yomiel @lxo the thing is, the hardware is compatible, unless you are such an ideologue you'd rather throw your computer in a bathtub than install a proprietary driver on the computer.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:20:25 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br You probably might've only heard the GNUboot story from one side if that's your take away from this.

   • Embed this notice
     Protoss (cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:20:26 JST Protoss

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @mischievoustomato @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq @yomiel @lxo the libreboot/gnuboot thing especially, if I only knew of that one thing, would have indicated that this were a cult.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:20:27 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @lxo @yomiel @menherahair @phnt @Suiseiseki @Cyrillic @SuperDicq > however, if you try to spread ideas of self-harm to others, we will try to counter that by attempting to inform and to influence them just the same. it's not like it's your spreading of these ideas that requires us to act: there are more than enough pushers of user-harmful software out there already, so we've got plenty of work to do already. but it would be definitely nicer if, instead of making our job hardware, you'd help us by inviting users gently to climb the freedom ladder at their own pace instead of teaching them to disparage us, to conform and to be controlled like most everyone else.
     
     i think it'd be easy to say that every single one of you has pushed people away from anything foss, lol
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:28:57 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br Potential doesn't mean anything if this potential is not realized.
     
     Also the image you refer to was about WiFi chips. And it was about firmware on chip (not upgradable, so not technically software) vs. firmware from the kernel (upgradable, but proprietary).
     
     If we went by potential literally anything could potentially be free with enough reverse engineering effort. Why not slap a RYF sticker on literally any proprietary hardware ever made at that point? It has potential!

   • Embed this notice
     Protoss (cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:28:58 JST Protoss

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @mischievoustomato @yomiel @lxo what's the other side that makes an entirely proprietary bios better than a partially proprietary one with potential for reverse engineering the rest?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:30:25 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br Libreboot does not make binary blobs optional.
     
     It makes them the default option and actively encourages people to use them.
     
     This is obviously unacceptable for a GNU project.

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:30:26 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @Cyrillic @mischievoustomato @yomiel @lxo The side does not matter. If you get salty over an optional _option_ to include binary blobs like updated microcode to the point that you fork upstream's months old version, you are just stupid in my eyes. There's no way in changing that. If it was some dispute over the maintainer not letting you contribute, then it's a completely different thing, but that did _not_ happen. The driving force behind the first initial fork is the optional ability of updating already _broken_ and _insecure_ software running on your CPU directly.
     
     It's just a way of conforming to the hilariously bad FSF's policy on upgradeable firmware.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:31:56 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br Libreboot is literally saying "Hey you should install proprietary software instead! It supports more hardware! It's better!"
     
     How could the GNU project ever endorse this and not be hypocritical?

     翠星石 and Pissed Hippo like this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:34:01 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br I know many people on the GNU project who are actively working on reverse engineering projects for various hardware.
     
     I don't know where you get the idea that the idea "I don't think the FSF would try to reverse engineer drivers" from.

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Protoss (cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:34:02 JST Protoss

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @phnt @mischievoustomato @yomiel @lxo from what I hear it was at least once, and that doesn't change that cutting support for a machine does not make it more free.
     
     and no I don't think the FSF would try to reverse engineer drivers for machines they'd rather leave to the vendor BIOS.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 05:35:22 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br And just to be clear the GNU project and FSF are separate entities and the FSF does not develop software, it does activism. The GNU project develops and reverse engineers software.

   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 06:14:08 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • VIPPER
     @VIPPER @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq This and the other thread remind of the Luke Smith free software sink segment.
     luke-smith-proprietary-sink.mp4
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Yomiel (yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 06:14:31 JST Yomiel

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • Phantasm
     • VIPPER
     @phnt @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq @VIPPER
     LMAO i just cut down this exact video earlier
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 06:15:32 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @SuperDicq @Suiseiseki @menherahair @Cyrillic @mischievoustomato @yomiel @lxo Hey you should not install this more free software replacement, instead you should just use the fully proprietary one.
     
     See how stupid this take is? And of course you again, perhaps intentionally, miss the point about CPU microcode. You are _already_ running one. And it _is_ broken, but in the name of conforming to FSF's policy of "no ability in updating embedded firmware means free, updating said broken embedded firmware means not free", you instead choose to run _broken_ software with zero advantages over not updating it, other than FSF stamp of approval.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 06:27:38 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     both are nonfree (when you combine something that respects your freedom with something that takes it away, you get something that takes it away), and both will remain nonfree because of unbreakable hardware locks even if you succeeded at reverse engineering. me, I choose a free bios because then it won't be an agent for someone who's attempting to control me through my computing, and it won't open the door to enshittification through unwanted changes. https://www.lx.oliva.nom.br/#Unshittify
     
     CC: @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
     
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 06:35:10 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     it's accurate. the FSF is an advocacy, fundraising and organizing organization. it's the primary sponsor of the GNU project, that does primarily software development and organizing towards software development. I'm not saying it had to be like that, but that's the way it is. under this arrangement, it wouldn't be the FSF doing the reverse engineering, it would be GNU doing it, whether through volunteers or not.
     
     but reverse engineering is too often wasted effort: even if you succeed, by the time you're done, odds are that the hardware will already be obsolete. it's good to get more hardware that can be used in freedom, but it's far more effective to do that by convincing hardware developers and software users that it's in their own interest for the software to be free than racing after a fake rabbit that would ensure we're always years behind
     
     CC: @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com @menherahair@eientei.org @phnt@fluffytail.org @Cyrillic@lab.nyanide.com @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @yomiel@new.asbestos.cafe
     
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 17:01:16 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @mischievoustomato @menherahair @phnt @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @yomiel @lxo >has pushed people away from anything foss, lol
     Yes, I proudly push people away from corporate bootlicking and towards freedom instead.
     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 17:28:49 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @lxo @Cyrillic @menherahair @phnt @SuperDicq @yomiel @mischievoustomato >unbreakable hardware locks
     A lock can be unlocked and locked by the user, those are rather unbreakable RSA hardware handcuffs.
     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2025 17:59:41 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • Phantasm
     • Protoss
     • Johnny Peligro
     • Yomiel
     • Alexandre Oliva
     @phnt @menherahair @Cyrillic @SuperDicq @yomiel @lxo @mischievoustomato >miss the point about CPU microcode. You are _already_ running one.
     maskROM cannot be changed by anyone, therefore it is not software.
     
     Yes, there is some hardware that I'm using, but there is no proprietary license attached to that hardware and I can do whatever I want with it.
     
     There are a handful of ARM SoC's that work with free software that don't use microcode if you are really worried about such proprietary hardware.
     
     >but in the name of conforming to FSF's policy
     I have no hardware that is RYF approved.
     
     The reason I don't install proprietary software microcode updates is because they're proprietary software that is clearly also proprietary malware looking at the proprietary license it's under; Copyright (c) 2018 Intel Corporation.
     All rights reserved.
     
     Redistribution.
     
     Redistribution and use in binary form, without modification, are permitted,
     provided that the following conditions are met:
     
     1. Redistributions must reproduce the above copyright notice and the
     following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided
     with the distribution.
     
     2. Neither the name of Intel Corporation nor the names of its suppliers may
     be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without
     specific prior written permission.
     
     3. No reverse engineering, decompilation, or disassembly of this software
     is permitted.
     
     
     "Binary form" includes any format that is commonly used for electronic
     conveyance that is a reversible, bit-exact translation of binary
     representation to ASCII or ISO text, for example "uuencode".
     
     DISCLAIMER.
     
     THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS"
     AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
     IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
     ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE
     LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR
     CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF
     SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS
     INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN
     CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE)
     ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE
     POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
     
     
     Proprietary software is always unacceptable, even if it happens to execute in a different way than normal.
     
     >And it _is_ broken
     I'm not so weak that I care about rare crashes.
     
     Provided you don't love wasting time by watching slop videos for more than a few minutes, you won't face any issues with stability on GNUbooted thinkpads.
     
     Meanwhile, KGPE-D16 systems are rock-solid stable without any proprietary software updates, as AMD's CPUs for that time are of decent quality.
     
     >no ability in updating embedded firmware means free, updating said broken embedded firmware means not free
     Firmware is socketed ROM chips.
     
     MaskROM is hardware and proprietary hardware that cannot be changed by anyone is not a software freedom issue.
     
     Installing proprietary software updates is installing proprietary software.
     
     >you instead choose to run _broken_ software with zero advantages over not updating it
     I choose to use slightly defective hardware rather than surrendering my freedom to proprietary software updates that obviously contain malware.
     
     I won't hesitate to install free software microcode updates that I'm confident aren't malware.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 15:07:40 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • waifu
     • 聖騎士
     @deadheat @SuperDicq @waifu That's clearly a parody of windows 7, therefore it is proprietary software.
   • Embed this notice
     聖騎士 (deadheat@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 15:07:42 JST 聖騎士

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • waifu
     @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq @waifu Is the Orenji operating system free software?