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1. Embed this notice
   Delta Chat (delta@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:00:47 JST Delta Chat

   People like to say "email leaks metadata" but consider this: Delta apps do not store group metadata (memberlists, group names, avatars, keys) on servers. By comparison,

   - #matrix stores group metadata unencrypted on home servers and replicates it to other federated matrix servers

   - #signal stores encrypted group metadata on Amazon cloud servers

   #deltachat uses a #p2p messaging model for encrypted group metadata where servers function as transport only.

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Mostafa228 (mostafa228@toot.community)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:01:25 JST Mostafa228

     in reply to

     @delta #Deltachat has two advantages over other other massaging solutions
     1. Perfect balance between privacy and censorship resistance.
     2. Easiest and cheapest massaging solution to self-host.
     💪

     feld likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:07:07 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @ambiguous_yelp @gh0stz0x @delta reminder that AES256 is considered "quantum resistant"*, but not "post-quantum".
     
     Signal's cryptography is considered "post-quantum".
     
     At this point PQC is more of a "nice to have" than a requirement for a secure private messenger. But we shouldn't sit on our laurels.
     
     https://www.fierceelectronics.com/electronics/aes-256-joins-quantum-resistance
     
     
     * I'm not aware of this changing. If it has, send me a message and I'll bookmark the new info.
   • Embed this notice
     🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat (ambiguous_yelp@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:07:08 JST 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     in reply to

     • gh0stz0x

     @gh0stz0x @delta Does it have quantum-resistant encryption like Signal and Simplex? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrdExQW0cs

   • Embed this notice
     gh0stz0x (gh0stz0x@poliverso.org)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:07:14 JST gh0stz0x

     in reply to

     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     @ambiguous_yelp @delta
     You can create an address (Chatmail) for each person if you want, and you can delete the address that after X days is automatically deleted.
     With e-mail (Normal) you can create an alias and use that.
     If you do not want to receive any more messages, delete the alias or block the user.
   • Embed this notice
     🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat (ambiguous_yelp@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:07:16 JST 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     in reply to

     @delta Does it have persistent IDs? like a profile address? Simplex.chat essentially allows you to have "a burner phone for every contact" allowing for maximum deniability should your contacts be compromised

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     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:25:01 JST Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:

     in reply to

     • Crispy Branzino
     @Nimbius666 @delta https://support.delta.chat/t/why-is-delta-chat-not-included-in-wikipedia/2473
   • Embed this notice
     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:25:02 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to
     @delta it also doesn't appear to have a wiki article thats in English?
   • Embed this notice
     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:33:39 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
     @tk @delta frustrating but okay. Delta chat still shows up #1 on duckduckgo. 👍
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:34:28 JST Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:

     in reply to

     • Crispy Branzino
     @Nimbius666 You on DeltaChat? :blobfox:
   • Embed this notice
     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:37:41 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
     @tk nope, but I'm interested.
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     l (link2xt@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:38:02 JST l

     in reply to

     • feld
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x

     @feld
     I think "post-quantum" and "quantum-resistant" is the same thing.

     Delta Chat currently uses AES-128 which is the current best practice for non-PQC crypto, but when https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-openpgp-pqc/ is implemented it will be AES-256, RFC authors definitely take this into account.

     @delta @gh0stz0x @ambiguous_yelp

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:38:02 JST feld

     in reply to

     • l
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @link2xt @delta @gh0stz0x @ambiguous_yelp post-quantum was designed specifically to resist quantum computer attacks IIRC, that's the main difference. AES-256 obviously wasn't. But it's believed to be resistant?
     
     Whoever came up with these terms needs to be slapped as it is too ambiguous
   • Embed this notice
     Crispy Branzino (nimbius666@comp.lain.la)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 09:54:10 JST Crispy Branzino

     in reply to

     • Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
     • Crispy Branzino
     @tk update: ive installed deltachat and its FUN! I like the qr thing, the apps quick to load, now if I only had friends that use this 🤔
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: (tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2025 10:26:08 JST Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:

     in reply to

     • Crispy Branzino
     @Nimbius666 I'll have to play with it later. :blobfoxgoogly:
   • Embed this notice
     gh0stz0x (gh0stz0x@poliverso.org)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 05:59:46 JST gh0stz0x

     in reply to

     • feld
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     @feld @delta @ambiguous_yelp

     Let's say that Delta Chat will not have post-quantum encryption, but at least, compared to Signal, it is not easily blocked in hostile situations.
     No point in having a Lamborghini in the garage without gas in the tank!
     Delta Chat has the right balance between security and usability.

     feld likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:18:15 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @ambiguous_yelp @gh0stz0x @delta how does SimpleX avoid being blocked? From what I can tell it uses a combination of Tor with 2-hop routing and direct connections to SMP (Simplex Messaging Protocol) servers.
     
     Blocking Tor should be trivial. Blocking access to the SMP servers should also be trivial if you can derive the list of them from somewhere.
     
     Am I missing something? I'd love to know more about it
   • Embed this notice
     🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat (ambiguous_yelp@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:18:16 JST 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     in reply to

     • feld
     • gh0stz0x

     @gh0stz0x @delta @feld SimpleX is also not easily blocked by Signal but like Signal it has quantum resistant encryption seemingly unlike Delta Chat

   • Embed this notice
     Delta Chat (delta@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:18:35 JST Delta Chat

     in reply to

     • feld
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x

     @ambiguous_yelp @gh0stz0x @feld SimpleX was blocked in Russia simply by blocking a single UDP port nation-wide. The solution is to use SOCKS proxy: https://mastodon.social/@simplex/113137959973971123

     feld likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:31:31 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @ambiguous_yelp @delta @gh0stz0x I'm aware of its origins and use by some 3 letter agencies, but there are plenty of networks in the USA that block Tor. I've had to implement it myself before.
     
     I don't think we're likely to see country-wide blocking of services in the USA but other countries can certainly do this.
   • Embed this notice
     🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat (ambiguous_yelp@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:31:33 JST 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     in reply to

     • feld
     • gh0stz0x

     @feld @delta @gh0stz0x They can't block Tor because the feds use it and even if they do theres things like bridges and the Snowflake/Pluggable Transports but at least you have to admit its harder to block tor plus a whole host of decentralised relays that anyone can run at home than it is to block a single centralised server

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:48:31 JST feld

     in reply to

     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @ambiguous_yelp @delta @gh0stz0x Yes, but it's my understanding that not all Tor relays or bridges support them as it needs to be implemented on both the client and server. So this is an option but it's not one you'd want to rely on long term as your access to the network is limited by the number of nodes that support it. I'm also not sure if it works with SimpleX's 2-hop onion routing design.
     
     It appears SimpleX doesn't try to use any pluggable transports at all right now and I'm kind of surprised they're not using it.
     
     This paper on using Pluggable Transports in China to circumvent the GFW is not giving me a lot of hope. I am hunting for more recent research in this area.
     
     https://people.cs.umass.edu/~phillipa/papers/foci-2018.pdf
   • Embed this notice
     🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat (ambiguous_yelp@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:48:32 JST 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     in reply to

     • feld
     • gh0stz0x

     @feld @delta @gh0stz0x Can't pluggable transports be used to circumvent tor bans

   • Embed this notice
     🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat (ambiguous_yelp@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 06:50:32 JST 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat

     in reply to

     • feld
     • gh0stz0x

     @feld @delta @gh0stz0x I wish I2P had a broader appeal bc every user is a node which I would imagine makes it harder to censor

     feld likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 13:08:47 JST feld

     in reply to

     • divergency
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @divergency @delta @ambiguous_yelp @gh0stz0x Do you mean port 443 to the SMP servers?
   • Embed this notice
     divergency (divergency@fe.disroot.org)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 13:08:49 JST divergency

     in reply to

     • feld
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @delta
     SimpleX allowed to connect to server using port 443 in recent beta
     @ambiguous_yelp @gh0stz0x @feld
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Thursday, 06-Feb-2025 13:23:35 JST feld

     in reply to

     • divergency
     • feld
     • 🌱@ambiguous_yelp:ahimsa.chat
     • gh0stz0x
     @divergency @delta @ambiguous_yelp @gh0stz0x Looks like that is correct. So first thing you do is harvest the hosts hardcoded into the apps
     
     > SMP server is the relay server used to pass messages in SimpleX network. SimpleX Chat apps have preset servers (for mobile apps these are smp11, smp12 and smp14.simplex.im), but you can easily change app configuration to use other servers.
     
     Then go scrape the community server list: https://simplex-directory.asriyan.me/
     
     And have someone embedded in the community harvesting the hostnames of all the extra private servers. Also watch for servers that have both 443 and 5223 open and isn't on an IP within Apple's AS. You can scrape the web yourself or just search Shodan.
     
     St this point you have basically crippled access to the Simplex network unless the user has a SOCKS5 proxy they can use and the entity you're evading can't detect SOCKS5.
     
     It's a lot of work but not impossible. Especially if you can use a custom implementation of SOCKS5 that obfuscates the traffic from DPI. But that's not as common.
     
     This is a lot more work than just picking a public email server that isn't blocked by the gov. That's my main complaint
   • Embed this notice
     Mikalai (mikalai@discuss.systems)'s status on Friday, 07-Feb-2025 08:18:21 JST Mikalai

     in reply to

     • Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem:
     • Crispy Branzino

     @Nimbius666 @tk
     like email, ask other for their address.

     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this.