mekka okereke :verified:
"Starter packs make life easy, and easy is how we got Trump!"
"Starter packs make life easy, and easy is how we got antibiotic resistant bacteria!"
"Starter packs make life easy, and easy is how we got cars, fossil fuel, and global warming!"
This is real push back I've seen over the past week. Not from trolls! From good people that earnestly believe this.
Please, keep them coming! I'm collecting all the ways good onboarding UX inevitably leads to the end of civilization and societal collapse
L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ
@mekkaokereke Starter packs are easy and easy is how kids start learning algebra! Wait… am I doing this correctly?
mekka okereke :verified:
🤣
Wren Reilly
"People who deserve security use linux and learn to use the command line"
/me goes off to scream for an hour
Phil Brandvold
@mekkaokereke In all of those cases, there were alternatives that were better for everyone that were not made easy, which is why the worse option was chosen. Something being difficult doesn't make it worth while, even though some things that are worthwhile are difficult. The real answer is for those of us dealing with the difficulty to make it better, easer, and more accessible for those who don't have the tolerance or privilege of dealing with the difficulties for the "good" thing.
D2
@mekkaokereke sounds like the usual sea of people who can’t tell the difference between correlation and causation.
mekka okereke :verified:
On that I agree 100%.
There should be user preference settings for "visible to starter packs."
Fifi Lamoura
@mekkaokereke Lol the main issue I can see with them is you can add people to them without their permission. That seems like a potential vector for abuse. I can see why people like using and creating them, and some people love being included in them.
mekka okereke :verified:
That's different!
Because "Follow Friday starter packs" are hand-rolled and artisanally made, they are righteous and pure! 👼🏼
Rather than support good UX for good users, and good safety features for those good users too, we will just... have a UX that's so hard to use, that bad actors don't want to use it! Good users don't want to use it, and give up and leave the fediverse... but bad users don't want to use it either, so let's call that a win!
ℹ️❤️🖥 aka Compy-chan
@mekkaokereke I bet those who shared those views have also shared Follow Friday posts
mekka okereke :verified:
Strong agree!
Starter packs are not forced on users. It's not like a spammy "Big accounts you should follow!" or anything.
I mentioned Katherine Hayhoe, one of my favorite climate scientists. Great info without doomerism. Recommend!
If I go to her profile, I can go to the "starter packs" tab, and see the ones that she has created. It's kind of like "pinned posts" or "about" on some Mastodon clients.
This is the way.
Do Not Comply
@mekkaokereke
For me, and only me, I don't like a lot of onboarding stuff. It's like the bloatware apps automatically added to phones. It's often in my way, the way a lot of apps do it.
So my only ask is that things be opt-in, skippable, optional, etc.
But if a starter pack is a game changer? This is not a hill to die on. It's not even a rock to sneeze on.
mekka okereke :verified:
Also agree 100%!
And I should be able to remove myself from starter packs and lists that I don't want to be on.
Do Not Comply
@mekkaokereke @fifilamoura
I might want to review what packs I'm on, though. 👀
moggie
Having seen what a huge proportion of new users create an account and then just never seem to do anything with it, I really believe Mastodon needs something like starter packs, and maybe even a little automated thing that offers a few upon signup (this part could be managed by instance admins, rather than universally). Follow lists are ok but the mechanism for importing them needs to be simplified a lot, like "click this button" simple.
The one big thing I would change is that people should have to grant permission before being included in someone's recommendations.
David Njoku
@mekkaokereke Starter packs make things easy, and Eazy is how we got NWA.
mekka okereke :verified:
🤣🤣🤣
Nicovel0 🍉
@mekkaokereke “starter packs are easy, and easy is how we got Sunday mornings”
Am I doing this right?
mekka okereke :verified:
I'll allow it! 👍🏿
Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈⧖
@mekkaokereke Wow, are people actually posting nonsense like that? I'm glad I'm not seeing it—they're a great idea. I'm watching @dansup and his Fediverse starter pack project.
“Good artists copy. Great artists steal." —Picasso
mekka okereke :verified:
@mastodonmigration is also helping to collect starter packs before the UX is in place, which is super important. 👍🏿
But I'm more interested in making the UX easier for all folks to be able to create starter packs. Any starter pack that I create is not that useful, relatively speaking. IMHO the best starter packs are the tiny ones created by people that you know personally, in micro-communities that exist in real life too.
Mastodon Migration
How about, "Starter Packs make life easy, and Mastodon Migration's Follow Packs are fiddly and clumsy, so they're better?" 🤷
We can't do Starter Packs here yet, but we can import lists of follows.
Check out this stop gap implementation called Follow Packs. For a current Directory and FAQ check out >>> @mastodonmigration.wordpress.com .
Hrefna (DHC)
…oh I see I have a new account to follow on bsky and a bunch of starter packs to check out. Thanks!
draNgNon
@mekkaokereke the only thing I can think of here is if curators of starter packs get into the same ... nature of disputes that curators of block lists do, it will only deepen divides and bring the end to any hope of intersectionality
And given how starter packs are effectively the diametric opposite of block lists, I don't see a way to avoid it.
To be clear I'm not actually against them but you asked for cons. I'd instead assert some plan for mitigating the inevitable dispute be considered.
Grassroots Joe
@mekkaokereke @dgoldsmith @dansup @mastodonmigration
Starter pack 1st approximation, who does @[trusted account] follow?
Mastodon Migration
@joeinwynnewood @mekkaokereke @dgoldsmith @dansup
This is a great point. All you need to do to see who someone follows is click on their 'following' tab and you can see who your mutuals are and follow ones you don't directly from the page that pops up.
Dinah 🕊🇺🇦
@joeinwynnewood @mekkaokereke @dgoldsmith @dansup @mastodonmigration Starter pack better idea: emphasize in onboarding choosing a few hashtags to follow.
- doesn't require someone to curate a list
- doesn't reinforce a fame culture
- doesn't require knowing / guessing who to pick
- if placed in onboarding flow after initial people follows are picked, the suggested hashtags list perhaps could be populated with those used recently by those people, along with hashtags the server admin choose
mekka okereke :verified:
@metagrrrl @joeinwynnewood @dgoldsmith @dansup @mastodonmigration
This is a worse idea.
"- doesn't require someone to curate a list"
Community builders want to curate lists! This is a non-issue.
"- doesn't reinforce a fame culture"
Again, people that don't use starter packs, think of it as fame culture. But it's the opposite. Small, community lists made by friends are the most powerful.
"- doesn't require knowing / guessing who to pick"
Again, non-issue. You see your friends' lists.
Raleigh Straight
@mekkaokereke I've been a Mac user and champion of good UI/UX for decades. I've seen and heard all of this. Sensible defaults will lead to the collapse of civilization!
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