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Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 01:34:51 JST Sick Sun
- 7666
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@arcana @7666 The Creator of the Universe.

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  Asa (asa@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 01:41:46 JST Asa
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  @sun @arcana @7666 God commands to be a reasonable and good person and not one that lies to himself, and then once you have that kind of brain you follow reason applied to each situation, there is plenty of contradiction in the Bible. There is no clear written rule that you just follow literally.
  
  Even “You shall not murder” leaves up to you to decide whether killing a specific person in a specific situation is murder or not.
  
  Obviously you don’t have to provide shelter to any human that happens to walk by.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:06:16 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @arcana in my next life I'll pick one of the numerous pagan stories that obsess about cumming so hard it created reality
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:06:17 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @arcana @7666
  
  > The Creator of the Universe.
  
  I think you mean, a pseudohistorical fantasy novel.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:15:33 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @arcana it has not been established in this thread that I consider Biblical stories to be literally historically true.
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:15:34 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @7666 @arcana
  
  It's a metaphor. If there was only One God (Atum) at the beginning, how else did it procreate except through an act of masturbation? The only people who take that stuff literally are those who never matured enough to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:23:42 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @arcana It is true but it is true like transubstantiation, it is a Mystery a fallen man cant learn, it has to be revealed to a perfected person. so my standard for belief is squishier than "this is literally unambiguously true" but definitely more rigid than "it's just a collection of stories about how to live"
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:23:43 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @7666 @arcana
  
  > it has not been established in this thread that I consider Biblical stories to be literally historically true.
  
  Fair enough. However that PoV is endemic to Abrahamism, if not on a personal level of individual belief, at the institutional level and in the way that it's promoted to people both within and without the religions.
  
  If you don't take it literally though, then it might as well be on the shelf next to Lord of the Rings, and Marvel Spiderman, rather than given some privileged place in a special category of fiction all to it's own. Other than the cultural dimension, it has no more inherent wisdom and moral worth to it than any other great work of fiction.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:40:26 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @arcana in this case what I mean is just " it's true but you can't logically square the circle it no matter how hard you try so don't"
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:40:27 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @7666 @arcana
  
  I can't fault you there, because I have a similar relationship with other ancient myths.
  
  In terms of transubstantiation specifically, in my view that has to do with "you are what you eat". If you choose to regard the land and it's produce as sacred gifts (as I do), then consuming products of the land like grain and meat, has an inherently sacralizing effect upon the consumer. A large part of that has to do with cultivating gratitude, and acceptance and respect for the cycle of death and rebirth which like that food we thus consume, we are all bound to in due course.
  
  Personally I think this is where Abrahamic religion has gone off the rails. It's taken a perfectly good sentiment like respect for the sanctity of life and death, and turned it into some kind of asinine fantasy about a superhero who will supposedly save you in a fictional afterlife from being tortured for things the superhero did to you in the first place. It's retarded and totally misses the point. Instead of honouring a commonplace reality of nature and reaffirming our connection to it, it turns it into some kind of infantile delusion.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:56:09 JST Sick Sun
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  @amerika @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper all modern branches of christianity (except for mormonism) are now ONLY exoteric. really maeks u think.
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  ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:56:10 JST ≠
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  @sun @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper
  
  IMHO also pagan faiths were aware that their stories were metaphors, where modern religions are not (per Evola re confusion of exoteric/esoteric).
  
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  on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:56:55 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
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  @sun @amerika @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper what if you just don't know about the esoteric branches because they are so secret
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:59:14 JST Sick Sun
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  @lain @amerika @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper bc christianity is also missionary so every branch with an esoteric component would have an exoteric component even if not everybody could participate in the esoteric part. that's my theory
  
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  on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:59:14 JST on-lain ✔ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
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  @amerika @7666 @arcana @sun @toiletpaper i hear eastern orthodoxy is the christianity for those who are both smart and 'with it'
  
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  ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 02:59:15 JST ≠
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  @lain @7666 @arcana @sun @toiletpaper
  
  The most interesting Christians around here are the home churches.
  
  Usually prot and small, they often have strong doctrinal takes.
  
  Some of them seem to have great clarity... they need a new prophet to compile those.
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:01:12 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
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  @sun @amerika @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper part of the issue with having esotericism at all is that, with a few exceptions obviously, so much of previously esoteric knowledge has become exoteric in the sense that it's all been democratized. the success of the enlightenment meant that people just don't hide wisdom in the west like they used to. the only thing left unexplained is the Mysteries themselves, which are beyond explanation
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:09:11 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @amerika @7666 @arcana at the time period that syncretic gnostic christian cults were operating and before the homogenization you could get esoterism from regular Christianity without the baggage of gnosticism, however they have all expired by now with the possible exception of that which shall not be named
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:09:12 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @amerika @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  Even the early Christians did it. The so called Ophite groups like the Naassenes are a perfect example, who equated Jesus with a whole host of dying and rising Gods from Greece, Mesopotamia and Egypt. The Freemasons do similarly, as do many other Christian esoteric orders. Even the name Jesus is itself derived from Ieso (recuperation), the daughter of Aesculapius, who's initiates were called Christoi and functioned as nurses and doctors in the hospital-temples of their day (eg. Pergamon). Not to mention the entire theological tradition of Judaism, Islam and Christianity (eg. the Trinity) are practically wholesale plagiarised from Hermeticism and NeoPlatonism.
  
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  ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:09:13 JST ≠
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  Yes, very true, and they grafted on any gods they encounted. "Ooo, you guys have a god of abandoned streams? I want one too, let's add it to the canon."
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:09:14 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @amerika @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  > pagan faiths were aware that their stories were metaphors
  
  The evidence for that is their diversity. If people took their stories and characters literally, they wouldn't have routinely changed them to suit the circumstances of their day and age.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:10:07 JST Sick Sun
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  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper the main branch of buddhism in japan has esoteric teachings at high level that nobody is expected to ever learn
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:10:08 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @une @sun @7666 @amerika @arcana @toiletpaper There is some genuine esotericism left. In Theravada Buddhism, for example, colonialism and modernism drove their Tantric schools underground. You can't find it easily because Theravada became "Protestant" (analogously speaking) and refuses to play ball with medieval readings of the ancient sources, which is lame in a way, but it also kept the esoteric element of that tradition from becoming a commodity for mentally ill White women.
  
  I'm sure this is also true for other traditions in China and India.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:11:54 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun @toiletpaper Modern Platonism makes me seethe bc what do you mean Middle and Neoplatonists got him totally wrong, but you, who grew up exclusively with the masturbatory deconstructionism that destroys every worldview it touches, have him figured out?
  
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  ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:11:55 JST ≠
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  @une @7666 @arcana @sun @toiletpaper
  
  For example, lots of people read Plato, but probably fewer than one in a hundred understand even the basics of it.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:17:12 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @amerika @arcana I find the evolution of Christian doctrine to be one of the most beautiful creations by humanity. It is like a beautiful puzzle that reveals more and more as you explore it further.
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:17:13 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @7666 @amerika @arcana
  
  That may well be true, but really the only thing that distinguishes Christianity from it's Pagan contemporaries is it's fixation of an ossified narrative (in defiance of the textual inconsistencies of the source material), and it's pathological narcissism. Beyond that it has no special esoteric, theological, philosophical or moral worth to offer that isn't also present and ultimately derived from Pagan traditions.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:17:33 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @une @7666 @amerika @arcana @sun @toiletpaper Depends what he means by democratization.
  
  Christianity mostly can't be esoteric because one of the central tenants of the faith is one visible Body of Christ (communion of churches) so every bishop has to check every other bishop.
  
  It's too centralized for anything hidden to be confirmed at scale, and if it ceases to be centralized, there has to be a hard fork that simply creates two exoteric traditions.
  
  This is one reason (of several) that Christian Gnoticism failed. When Christian esotericism does happen it's usually in monasteries in the middle of nowhere and as soon as the broader church becomes aware of it, it gets stamped out.
  
  For example early versions of Palamism before the synods taught 4 persons in the Godhead.
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:17:34 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
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  @J @7666 @amerika @arcana @sun @toiletpaper that's true, I guess I mean wrt esoteric Christianity—Christianity, already being a democratization of Greek philosophy (if we take Nietzsche's reading of Christianity at face value anyway), further democratized and therefore exotericized its own teachings during the Enlightenment. So in the West at least it makes sense this would be a problem, and more of a problem than in China or India or wherever, where Western Enlightenment-modernization has had less impact
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:19:42 JST Sick Sun
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  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper esoteric and gnostic christian cults didn't survive for a lot of reasons but one was simple, universalist exoteric doctrines outcompete complicated elitist ones
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:19:52 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
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  @sun @amerika @J @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper shingon seems cool. i don't think i'll ever understand it, especially cuz so much of it is direct Japanese interpretation of Sanskrit grammar/Indian philosophy that's currently beyond my comprehension, but sometimes I recite the esoteric name of Kōbō Daishi. hopefully I can do that more once I've finished my vow to recite Jizō's name
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:20:23 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper They're more or less the same as Tibetan esotericism, in both Tendai and Shingon, though I'm sure it has a more oriental flavor.
  
  They've succeeded at keeping it more culturally esoteric, which is good, but we know the lineages of the 8 schools so we know it's going to be basically the same.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:21:55 JST Sick Sun
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:21:56 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @7666 @amerika @arcana
  
  I consider it a source of unrepentant mass delusion and genocidal violence that is so enamoured with it's own reflection that it can't recognise or take responsibility to change the abominably heinous reality of it's own character. Like I said, it's a pathological narcissistic superstition masquerading as a religion.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:27:26 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @sun @7666 @amerika @arcana @toiletpaper @une If Gnostic niggas wanted to be Hermeticists they should've just done that without bringing Jesus into it.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:27:26 JST Sick Sun
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  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper was gnostic christianity a rewrite meant to force the weird beliefs of the author on unsuspecting fans of a beloved original property.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:27:27 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper Christian Gnosticism was also just bad and didn't make sense.
  
  I get why enthusiasts or anti-Christians like it but its assumptions undermine most of the liturgy, the morals of Jesus, the classical prayers, among other things.
  
  It comes off as local Egyptian mythos in a Christian skin suit.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:28:49 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper Gnostic Christianity was like the Ghostbusters 2016 of the Bible where everything is gender swapped.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:32:26 JST Sick Sun
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  @une @amerika @J @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I actually made a private post about it, I talked to a bunch of old mormons and discovered the church for decades has been slowly stripping out all the "weird" esoteric elements without telling anyone. it's difficult to notice because the church hierarchy has the absolute authority to change ritual and you are completely prohibited from talking about the ritual outside the temple to anyone but immediate family.
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:32:27 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
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  @sun @amerika @J @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper you're thinking of mormonism
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:32:27 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
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  @sun @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @toiletpaper which actually surprisingly has more esoteric traditions than mainstream Christianity
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:32:35 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  > Gnostic Christianity
  
  Gnostic Christinanities (plural). There are a lot of totally different traditions mashed into the same space under that heading. The idea of an "evil creator" also wasn't unique to Christinanity, as it had analogues in Judaism also.
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:34:51 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @une @amerika @J @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  That's because moronism was a bastardised form of Freemasonry. Joseph Smith thought that Freemasonry was an esoteric religion which simply refused to take the next step of having actual ordained priesthood. So he formed his own splinter group in which it did.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:34:51 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @une @7666 @J @amerika @arcana mormonism is richer and more internally consistent than freemasonry. they believe that freemasonry was the degraded remnants of original church ritual, the true version of which was restored with joseph smith
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:37:45 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper It's very easy to see how the rhetoric has changed, they want to integrate into evangelicalism so they can more easily subvert them.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:37:45 JST Sick Sun
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  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper it is just trying to increase its membership by removing things that caused criticism (it is working) it is a shame because "weird" mormonism is actually compelling but the degraded pseudo-protestant version of it is devoid of spirituality
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:38:41 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @toiletpaper @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun Scholars love to say this but ignore that almost all surviving Gnostic texts were found in a single codex, alongside the discourses of Hermes and Plato's Republic, implying a unity between all of them.
  Christian scholars love to exaggerate the multiplicity in early Christianity. There are multiple Gnostic Christianities in the same way there are multiple schools of Catholicism. There are internal debates ofc but at the end of the day they're all identifiable as one thing.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:39:41 JST Sick Sun
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  @toiletpaper @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @une secret info, the final rite in thelema before godhood is creating your own religion you're a god in
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:39:42 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
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  @sun @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @une
  
  Similarly L Ron Hubbard took a lot of ideas from Crowley's OTO and Thelema and repacked it as Scientology. Not really that different. If you have good enough marketing abilities, or are willing to be pathologically unscrupulous and violent towards any opposition, then you too can attract hoards of gullible people into your totally made up cult du jour. It certainly worked for Christininanity 2,000 years ago.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:42:03 JST Sick Sun
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  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I'm on the fence, I am not saying it's true but it restored stuff from ancient christianity that there's no good explanation for how smith could have known unless he had translated texts that nobody else did until the 1940s
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:42:04 JST Niggy Hardare
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  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I think it's only compelling in the same way every other secret society from that era is. It's a synthetic mystery that keeps the appearance of older ones without the authentic transmission.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:46:36 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper Like what?
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:46:36 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I just remember noticing a lot of small things when I started digging into old apocryphal books, like I am sure you're familiar with stories relating to fallen angels and the watchers and just the general weird stories about early creation that arent retained at all in contemporary christianity. and specifially related to ritual, which I can't go into fully, regular christianity has no good story for why lucifer rebelled but early christianity talked about it a lot and mormon interpretation as presented only in sacred ritual is similar.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:49:50 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @7666 @amerika @arcana @toiletpaper @une at the conclusion I think mormon cosmology is close to the truth although I reject almost all the modern doctrine
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:51:01 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  You should check out David Litwa. He not only goes into the Nag Hammadi Library, but also all the various heresiological texts written by other Christian authors (eg. Origen, Ireneaus, etc) who describe the various groups now lumped together as Gnostic, and the various theological differences between them. There's more than enough evidence to distinguish the teachings of Marcion from the teachings of Simon of Samaria, from the teachings of the Naassene preacher, etc.
  
  It's also not as though Gnostics were entirely wiped out by the 4th century. You have a lot of derivative groups like the Bogomils, Cathars, Albigensians, Patarenes, Waldenses, Anabaptists, etc, who survived for at least another thousand years afterwards. Then there are Christinanities like the Pelasgians, who (like the Hermeticists) rather than seeing the world and matter as inherently evil, denied original sin, regarded creation as inherently good and redemptive, etc.
  
  If there were a uniform understanding of theology within Christinanity then the Catholic church and it's ideological successors wouldn't have spent a thousand years viciously murdering anyone within their own religion with a different point of view.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:51:01 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @toiletpaper @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun I have a lot of problems with what you wrote but Idc about Christian Gnosticism. It's a gay dead tradition.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:52:02 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @tiskaan @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper some do
  
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  tiskaan (tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:52:03 JST tiskaan
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper dobt they become fods of their own planet?
  i dont get whats so comoelling about that
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:53:14 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @une @amerika @J @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper you guys know more than me, I am a dilettante that only retains about 20 percent of what I read
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:53:15 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
  in reply to
  @J @7666 @amerika @arcana @sun @toiletpaper same reason why Plotinus was wrong that the soul was undescended
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:53:16 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
  in reply to
  @J @toiletpaper @7666 @amerika @arcana @sun Christian Gnosticism is dead and gay because the material world is good and necessary actually
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:54:57 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @tiskaan @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I merely mean the mormon collection of beliefs I found to appear closer to a bunch of early Christian beliefs that all eventuially got excised when Christianity became a roman state religion or something like that
  
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  tiskaan (tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:54:59 JST tiskaan
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper if its fine with you given this is goes into personal and spiritual th*ngs for you, why so you find this to be close to the truth.
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 03:55:04 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @J @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I also only retain like 20% of what I read. this was just one of the central disagreements Iamblichus had with his teacher Plotinus and I think Iamblichus is cool so I remembered it
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:00:50 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper > Mormon "rediscoveries" are actually just them being influenced by Renaissance-Hermetic ideas that were already back in the public consciousness via occult movements, which were especially popular in early America.
  
  I am familiar with it but my impression is they desperately try to hide connections to all the esoteric shit smith was into (and he was into everything) I am actually fascinated how such a person could have such a breadth of knowledge of this stuff but of course that's not remotely impossible just surprising.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:00:51 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper This is propaganda BYU likes to shill, but often the Mormon "rediscoveries" are actually just them being influenced by Renaissance-Hermetic ideas that were already back in the public consciousness via occult movements, which were especially popular in early America.
  You'd see the exact same similarities in Masonic rituals and other neo-esoteric groups. The only difference is Mormons wrote that stuff back into their founding texts ad hoc.
  Researching Mahayana I've run into a similar problem. Every 500 years or so you'll have a new golden age of philosophy that draws out deep insights from the original teachings that are "lost" or simply overlooked, which is fine on its own, but then you have monks after them that will write those developments back into forged "primary sources" (almost all Mahayana Scripture falls into this category) and they go "Look, we have the original undefiled teaching of the Buddha! Come support our school!"
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:03:51 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @tiskaan @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper christianity was cleansed for political reasons and lacks explanation for many things. also I have personal revelation regarding some things.
  
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  tiskaan (tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:03:52 JST tiskaan
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper why does that matter to you. whats wrong with following normal version of christianity like catholicism.
  
  is there an experience youve had or something or just a preference to follow the original source matierial as much as possible?
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:07:16 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @tiskaan @toiletpaper I reject platonism and gnosticism and taoism. I have personal experience with infiltrators trying repeatedly to reintroduce a holy mother, or the holy spirit as a feminine principle Sophia.
  
  my path is admittedly extremely weird and I have taken elements from pagan interpretations of Christianity and rosicrucianism
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:07:17 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @tiskaan @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun @toiletpaper He probably has a skewed view of the place of the early schools of thought in Catholicism.
  
  Catholics, especially Jesuits, have been trying to bring that stuff back for hundreds of years, as well as incorporating foreign religions and philosophies. Christian Hermeticism, Christian Platonism, and Christian Taoism are syncretisms that have been held by cardinals and high ranking bishops for hundreds of years, obviously while attempting not to stretch past the limits of dogma. Same with early Patristic retrieval, and they do it in a far more natural, plausible way than the Mormons.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:07:36 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper Esotericism was just very common in early rural America especially among Quakers, other pacifist groups, to a certain extent Methodists would bring it in.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:10:10 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper smith family definitely practiced folk magic in addition to having talismans and various other junk sourced from old european grimoires and of course the basis for the entire religion the belief in lost hebrew tribes settling in north america. I have heard of other influences but these specific ones are absolutely confirmed
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:10:21 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @toiletpaper @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun Kardecism too, a lot of that stuff comes straight out of folk magic, which comes from Renaissance Hermeticism.
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:10:22 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun
  
  The most stark example is Martinism.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:12:15 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @7666 @amerika @arcana @toiletpaper @une do any of you guys know any place to learn more about early american folk magic, in particular scrying, divining and treasure digging
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:14:32 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @toiletpaper @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @tiskaan @une familiar but just not gonna take anything right from the hand of a gnostic desperately trying to cover their tracks
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:14:33 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
  in reply to
  @sun @J @7666 @amerika @arcana @tiskaan @une
  
  > infiltrators trying repeatedly to reintroduce a holy mother, or the holy spirit as a feminine principle Sophia.
  
  That's originally from Judaism, where YHWH's wife is Shekinah/Asherah (aka: Sabbath Hamalka), who is also the Ruach (breath) of God. Moreover the idea of the Holy Spirit in Christinanity as it's known today is directly taken from the "physis" (aka: Hecate) of NeoPlatonism and later Chaldeanism, who was also prefigured in Gnosticism (eg. Pistis Sophia, Sethianism, etc).
  
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:14:48 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
  in reply to
  @sun @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @toiletpaper @une -> @nousnaut if they ever come online again
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:15:08 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @tiskaan @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @sun @toiletpaper There are books of the Bible that refer to Sophia (wisdom) as a woman, and the first begotten person in creation. Early Christianity viewed it as referring to Jesus, but then Arianism happened and that thread got dropped.
  
  Gnosticism made Sophia the principle that falls into disunity with her male counterpart, who is Jesus Christ, which causes the cosmic fall and creates Yahweh and his angels.
  
  Sophiology is a crypto-feminist movement in Christianity that usually identifies Sophia as the Holy Spirit, and the Mother of God, and that first principle, and they usually also invoke one old archeological discovery of Yahweh with an Ashteroth Tree, an old idol which is probably the ritual image being alluded to by the menorah and the trees in the Eden story.
  
  The mythical connections are a whole rabbit hole but usually it all services bringing more ugly lesbians into the priesthood.
  
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  tiskaan (tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:15:09 JST tiskaan
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper what are these infiltrators and whats the issue of an holy mother.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:15:50 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @tiskaan @toiletpaper so yeah in methodism it's feminists trying since at least the 1990s when I was a young adult, they kept introducing weird things in national conference
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:17:23 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @tiskaan @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper I unerstand a jupiter talisman with enochian text and magic squares all over it, I don't understand digging up corpses at behest of ghost in the shape of an animal to find gold
  
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  tiskaan (tiskaan@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:17:24 JST tiskaan
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @J @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper is european americans old enough a lineage to have that shit lol.
  wouldnt make sense to go through european magic shit or something lol.
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:17:33 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper The guy who runs the Esoterica Youtube channel has a whole library linked somewhere and and I think he usually links primary sources under his videos.
  
  It's not my forte though, I've mostly learned about this through wasting entire days on Brave TM Search rabbit holes.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:17:43 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @toiletpaper oh cool I am familiar with him
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:21:15 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @J @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @tiskaan @toiletpaper basically this
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:21:16 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @une @7666 @amerika @arcana @sun @tiskaan @toiletpaper I exclusively participate in woman hating religions.
  
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  Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees (une@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:21:17 JST Une of the Unmensch of Ash-Trees
  in reply to
  @J @tiskaan @7666 @amerika @arcana @sun @toiletpaper ngl i would love a world full of ugly lesbian priests
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:25:20 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
  in reply to
  @sun @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @une
  
  Depends which culture you mean when you say "American". If you want European, then there's plenty. If you want African, then also plenty. But you'll need to be more specific because it's quite a diverse field of study with many ethnic, cultural and faith groups represented.
  
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  Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:25:20 JST Sick Sun
  in reply to
  @toiletpaper @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @une your hint is treasure digging because only one tradition does this
  
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  Niggy Hardare (j@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:25:25 JST Niggy Hardare
  in reply to
  @sun @amerika @une @7666 @arcana @tiskaan @toiletpaper Theravada Buddhism is so based that they originally had nuns but the monks got sick of their nagging 500 years ago so they don't let women be enlightened anymore.
  
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  ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:31:25 JST ⚡Eineygður Flakkari⚡
  in reply to
  @sun @7666 @J @amerika @arcana @une
  
  Not my forte, but a quick search came up with this.
  
  https://sci-hub.se/10.1179/146195714X13820028678368
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