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   ins0mniak (ins0mniak@majestic12.airforce)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 11:08:33 JST ins0mniak

   • pistolero
   Of course they'll probably try to redo everything in Rust.
   
   
   
   cc: @p
   • Embed this notice
     vic (vic@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 11:08:32 JST vic

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @ins0mniak @p There's a very common misconception that "all code written in Rust is correct" when in reality, the only people who bother writing Rust will also take the time to get it right. The only reason Rust has even been able to stick around as a language is because of autistic trannies who do it for free.
     
     Forcing Rust on paid developers is a recipe for disaster.
     MortSinyx likes this.
     Chucho :artix: repeated this.
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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2024 11:08:32 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • vic
     • pistolero
     The post mentions COBOL. As awful as COBOL can be, it is literally memory safe. It's almost always reversible if you deploy a mistake (COBOL is mostly used for batch processing, which is why is so common of settlements, insurance, banks). It's literally a proto-SQL-like language, and was designed by one of the few, good female engineers (before the era of diversity hiring)
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:43:13 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @ins0mniak Rust, fuck's sake.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 04:46:10 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • vic
     @vic @ins0mniak
     i_do_not_care_for_rust.png
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:, ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: and MortSinyx like this.
     :gnu:+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄 and MortSinyx repeated this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 05:06:40 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak @vic Best about Rust is trivial programs which could often just be purely ISO C, not even POSIX, then end up with absolute hundreds of direct dependencies (of course lot of them vendoring non-Rust code because they can't do package management) upon a Rust rewrite.
     
     It's not just mere JS fetishism, it's NPM fetishism. And I feel like it's more like enterprise Java than C++.
     
     Want to bootstrap Rust from source? Hope you like dealing with 5+ versions of LLVM…
     
     I wish Rust would crumble under it's own weight but sadly software culture doesn't seems to work this way.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 05:08:20 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • vic
     @ins0mniak @vic
     
     > The NSA has been pushing the White House to push it as a "safer" language.
     
     No, I saw that NSA recruitment video and it had the guy with the handlebar moustache and three different haircuts and I wanted to slap him in the back of the head and tell him to go home for the day and come back when he looked like he could be trusted to make coffee without sticking his dick in it. I can't find it but anyone that into himself is a sex pest.
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   • Embed this notice
     ins0mniak (ins0mniak@majestic12.airforce)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 05:08:22 JST ins0mniak

     in reply to

     • vic
     • pistolero
     @vic @p Absolutely.
     
     The NSA has been pushing the White House to push it as a "safer" language.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 07:47:12 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     @lanodan @ins0mniak @vic
     
     > I wish Rust would crumble under it's own weight but sadly software culture doesn't seems to work this way.
     
     "Look, the big ball of mud *must* be important. Look how big it is!"
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   • Embed this notice
     Owl! 🦉 (lonelyowl13@annihilation.social)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 09:13:59 JST Owl! 🦉

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic
     
     I wonder if there were any successful attempts in creating a successor for C that is reasonably simple 🤔
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 09:13:59 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @lonelyowl13 @p @ins0mniak @vic Plan9 C :DDD:
     
     I'd more put Rust as a C++ successor, but well most people can't do the difference between C and C++ while for me it's kind of like not doing the difference between Unix Shell and Perl.
     
     And well I don't think "successor" really makes sense in (programming) languages.
     Like is Ruby a successor to Perl? Depends on the person/projects really, I guess do things the weird way so Perl ended up being a successor to Python3 due to me wanting a more boring language.
     
     Meaning you could pick Fortran as a C successor.
     But it could be D, or Zig, or Hare, or Forth, or Go, …
   • Embed this notice
     vic (vic@seal.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 15:39:07 JST vic

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @lanodan I'm kind of retarded, so I appreciate Go, but I can absolutely understand why C programmers would hate it.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 15:39:08 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic Ha, I don't think anyone's even attempting it. You see Forth and C and stuff like that but most people aren't interested in building simple, useful languages. Even most C compiler authors don't know how to keep things simple.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 15:39:37 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     @vic @ins0mniak @lanodan @lonelyowl13 I'm doing mostly Go nowadays and there are a lot of things that irritate the shit out of me; it has a lot of niceties, though.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 15:51:17 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @vic Yeah, Go is the kind of language which I think makes the most sense for only one kind of thing and that's network daemons, because then the massive runtime which always spawn a bunch of processes is much more tolerable.
     
     For most other things… yeah another language would likely be better.
     
     But of course you see Go used for quite a lot of things and usually it boils down to the toolchain not being gnu+ass when you want to cross-compile.
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     vic (vic@seal.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 15:52:17 JST vic

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @lanodan All I really want is parameter defaults, actual enums, explicitly implementing interfaces, and just generally more cohesive culture surrounding the use of errors and contexts.
     
     I do really like its structs and (de)serialization capabilities, though. I don't really mess with goroutines and channels much, but when I do, they're alright. Channels could be a little more intuitive on some of the edge cases like sending to vs reading from a closed channel.
     
     I haven't touched generics, but I'm hoping to see some good map-reduce style libraries coming soon (at the cost of retards putting generics everywhere and generally overcomplicating things, a la modern C++).
     
     I guess it's the least bad option for the kind of stuff I like to do.
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     knapjack (knapjack@bonk.cozysumo.space)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 16:00:46 JST knapjack

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero

     @lanodan @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @p @vic Now I just want to see a project written in Go and rewritten in Forth. 😀

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 16:02:35 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @knapjack @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @p @vic I wish I could say challenge accepted but I've yet to be comfortable with the stack-based paradigm of Forth, there's only so many of them I can be familiar with.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 16:59:40 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     @vic @ins0mniak @lanodan @lonelyowl13 I'm fine without the defaults and I don't really mind the iota stuff; I did a lot of Limbo. What I do mind is the lack of macros: it's really nice to have lambdas, it's kind of sucky to have to repeat myself. I get the concerns about preprocessor abuse but if you look at the "Coroutines in C" paper, you can't do that kind of thing in Go. (Go has coroutines but what I mean is that without some kind of macro system, you have to hook into the compiler directly to avoid repeating yourself.) Like, the provisioning stuff in CofeSpace, I had a stack of undoable actions, right, "Create the database" was paired with pushing "Drop the database" onto the undo stack so that if something failed down the line, it'd pop things off the undo stack one at a time and this is pretty obviously the correct structure for something like that, but everything that should have been one line was six or seven, like "do this, if it succeeds, do this, and if it fails, execute the undo stack and return". In a C macro, you could drop two blocks in and have the macro handle the repetitive bits of the control flow, and Go doesn't have something nice like that. (At this point, there's so much "if err != nil {" that if they did add a preprocessor, everyone would cover their entire codebase in indecipherable macros and they want a compiler that you can use at large companies, and I begin to suspect that you can't make a language that is good for both large teams of interchangeable cogs and also good for 1-5 hackers to hack some shit together with.)
     
     Something I miss from Limbo is typed tuples. So, Go you've got to do a struct, right, but in Limbo you could use tuples as an ad-hoc data structure and not have to name/allocate/etc. a bunch of shit. This is especially painful with channels. In Limbo, you can have "x := chan of (string, int)" where Go wants you to do a struct.
     
     > Channels could be a little more intuitive on some of the edge cases like sending to vs reading from a closed channel.
     
     Yeah; I end up just using the I/O primitives, like they seem to want to steer you in that direction and just to use channels for synchronization primitives. So it panics when you look at a channel wrong, and that's fine.
     
     > I haven't touched generics,
     
     I don't think they were really needed. They look fine, like, just fine; interfaces handled everything I wanted generics to handle. (If I have a gripe, it's that the compiler doesn't seem to let me get too creative with interfaces, so I had to "type XList []*X" instead of satisfying the sort interface by defining "func (xs []*X) Len() int". It seems there are a lot of types you have to make to keep the compiler happy; see previous remarks about tuples in Limbo.)
     
     > I guess it's the least bad option for the kind of stuff I like to do.
     
     I would just go back to doing normal programs in C if they had added a stupid fuckin' analytics snitch in the compiler.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:00:41 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     @lanodan @ins0mniak @lonelyowl13 @vic
     
     > usually it boils down to the toolchain not being gnu+ass when you want to cross-compile.
     
     This is actually exactly the reason Revolver is Go instead of C: it was the easiest option if I wanted to produce code that could run without changes on x86-64 Plan 9 and ARM Linux.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:06:02 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @vic Well yeah Go seems somewhat better at actual portability too even though it kind of seems to push Plan9-isms on everyone, but I meant just stuff like creating binaries for {x86_64,arm32,arm64}-{linux,windows} rather easily, which seems doable in C without code changes but getting all those targets to work can be quite a chore.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:06:40 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     @lanodan @knapjack @ins0mniak @lonelyowl13 @vic
     
     > I've yet to be comfortable with the stack-based paradigm of Forth,
     
     It's really not as hard as it looks. You just write a lot of Forth for a couple of months, and suddenly it seems way easier than anything else. You don't have to name anything, you know? "Take this, do this, then do this", it comes out easy to write and easy to read. Forth people report that they used to do a lot of stack-manipulation when they started, lots of dup over rot swap, but then after a while you notice that your code requires almost none, and at least empirically, I can say that is the case: you don't plan it, just you get used to the language and then everything starts being on the stack in the place where you need it to be.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and snacks like this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:12:06 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @knapjack @ins0mniak @vic Yeah, I don't think it's hard, just not exactly the kind of thing where I could rewrite some program in without some prior experience/learning.
     While when you're somewhat familiar with the paradigm, at worst you write slightly unidiomatic code but that's it.
     
     Like pretty sure I could jump into Ruby real fast, after all quite worked like that for Elixir and Perl to me.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:12:07 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @lanodan @ins0mniak @knapjack @lonelyowl13 @vic Like, really, it's about as natural as pipes. It's almost an implicit pipe.
     snacks likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:13:57 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @ins0mniak @vic Can't you ignore win32 with something like cygwin though? (And also get make that way, or grab plan9port for mk)
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:13:58 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     @lanodan @ins0mniak @lonelyowl13 @vic
     
     > even though it kind of seems to push Plan9-isms on everyone
     
     Ha, it feels too Linux-y to me!
     
     > but I meant just stuff like creating binaries for {x86_64,arm32,arm64}-{linux,windows} rather easily,
     
     That is what I meant also, except {x86_64,arm32,arm64}-{linux,windows,plan9}.
     
     > which seems doable in C without code changes but getting all those targets to work can be quite a chore.
     
     You end up with #ifdefs and a stupid build system and coping with all the stupid winsock idiosyncrasies.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:15:54 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     @lanodan @ins0mniak @knapjack @lonelyowl13 @vic
     
     > Like pretty sure I could jump into Ruby real fast, after all quite worked like that for Elixir and Perl to me.
     
     Yeah, they're pretty similar in terms of primitive operations and how you architect your programs. (I was actually kind of disappointed that the structure of an Elixir program looked so close to Ruby. Erlang is weird; Elixir is not weird.)
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:18:38 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @knapjack @ins0mniak @vic Heh yeah, Erlang reminds me too much of Lisp, and I'm the kind of person who agrees with this quote:
     "Lisp has all the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail clippings mixed in." — Larry Wall
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:18:55 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     @lanodan @ins0mniak @lonelyowl13 @vic
     
     > Can't you ignore win32 with something like cygwin though?
     
     If you want to ship cygwin.dll with your code, yeah. That tends to be frowned on. I don't know if WSL does some voodoo to make it work, but Windows has a lot of subtle incompatibilities in their sockets library.
     
     > (And also get make that way, or grab plan9port for mk)
     
     If I was grabbing plan9port anyway, I'd just make the code use dial instead of sockets. (Berkeley sockets were a mistake and we will never stop paying for them.)
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     snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:48:21 JST snacks

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @knapjack @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic i still struggle with writing stuff with little stackmanipulation, also kinda have to learn c for pforth to be a useful system
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     snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:48:33 JST snacks

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @p @lonelyowl13 @knapjack @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic both are point free grammar
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:50:52 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • vic
     • pistolero
     @p @djsumdog @ins0mniak @vic
     
     >Very few CVEs are memory-safety-related any more anyway.
     Memory bugs are still prevalent in software. In fact most of the security erratas I receive are stack/heap overflows or OOB reads along with golang net/http bugs repeated multiple times.
     snacks likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:50:54 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Phantasm
     • vic
     @phnt @djsumdog @ins0mniak @vic Basically any language is memory-safe. Elixir is memory-safe, bash is memory-safe, awk is memory-safe, Ruby, Python, Perl. Very few CVEs are memory-safety-related any more anyway.
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:50:55 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • vic
     • pistolero
     @djsumdog @p @ins0mniak @vic Ada is also a memory safe language that came out in the 80's, but it isn't the new hottest thing, so none of the memory safety dorks care about it while acting like Rust's memory safety is something new.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:54:48 JST pistolero

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     • 夜化
     @Yoruka @ins0mniak Only if your model of writing a makefile is based on the GNU toolchain and autotools. Ten or fifteen lines of build targets versus an entire terrible rubygems-like monster, and then dependency hell? I mean, I had to uninstall Rust and reinstall it because the new version couldn't cope with the old version being installed at build-time and if I didn't have the new version, cargo fucked itself, and if I couldn't get cargo to stop fucking itself, then I couldn't get Firefox to build. It's like an ouroboros combined with the human centipede.
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     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:54:49 JST 夜化

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     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak its definitely more convenient then manually writing makefiles and manually installing libraries
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:54:50 JST pistolero

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     • 夜化
     @Yoruka @ins0mniak
     
     > its cargo system which is very convenient
     
     I must have been using a different cargo system for Rust.
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     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 17:54:51 JST 夜化

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     • pistolero
     @ins0mniak @p the only thing I'd credit rust for is its cargo system which is very convenient but still nothing new...
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 18:03:01 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • 夜化

     @p @Yoruka @ins0mniak Also a thing I *love* about Cargo is how much dependencies the damn thing has, gonna be great for things like going from GCC Rust to actual Rust ecosystem.

     Meanwhile if I want to get make(1) there's even stuff like pdpmake which compiles in a single command but pretty sure one could compile most make implementations from scratch (except GNU I guess) with a simple shell script.

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     Churkia (churkia@cum.salon)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 18:11:02 JST Churkia

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Forest of Enchantment
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     • You Get Glee
     @Forestofenchantment @lonelyowl13 @get @p @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic u r DUMB! export pleroma db objects table as csv and contact me for furhther details 😠😠😠😠!!!!!!!!!!
      likes this.
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     Forest of Enchantment (forestofenchantment@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 18:11:03 JST Forest of Enchantment

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     • Churkia
     • You Get Glee
     @churkia @lonelyowl13 @get @p @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic Beat the cum out of him.
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     You Get Glee (get@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 18:11:04 JST You Get Glee

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     @lanodan @lonelyowl13 @p @ins0mniak @vic ruby is the smalltalk successor
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     Churkia (churkia@cum.salon)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 18:11:04 JST Churkia

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • pistolero
     • You Get Glee
     @get @lonelyowl13 @p @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic i will beat u to death
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     rakoo (rakoo@blah.rako.space)'s status on Wednesday, 20-Nov-2024 20:11:05 JST rakoo

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     • pistolero
     @p
     
     I'm just here on the side liking crystal for my little projects pls don't make fun of me
     @lonelyowl13 @knapjack @ins0mniak @lanodan @vic
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Cosmin (cosmin@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 03:57:03 JST Cosmin

     in reply to

     • OCR Bot

     @OCRbot

   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 05:56:29 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • snacks
     • vic
     • Owl! 🦉
     • knapjack
     @snacks @ins0mniak @knapjack @lanodan @lonelyowl13 @vic I would like to be helpful but I had the same experience as everyone else. I think the rule of thumb is more or less the opposite of how you do it with a regular function: with `f(x,y)`, you want x to be the parameter that changes least often, so for `y x f`, you want to define f such that the top of the stack is the least likely to change.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and snacks like this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 06:05:26 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 夜化
     @lanodan @Yoruka @ins0mniak Oh, yeah, I mean, you could do a dependency tree in awk. You could possibly translate a makefile into a shell script with sed. mk is nicer, but I don't think that'd be hard to reimplement if you had to. The only trick would be wildcard targets, right, like GNU make has globbing and mk has regex targets. Worst-case, I think the 90-95% case for most makefiles, you implement in a page of Perl.
     
     I read an interview with Bill Joy some years back (and it was decades-old at the time) and someone was asking him what he thought about makefiles and he said that it was the stuff that used to be written down and tacked to the wall next to the machine, so it was good to have it in a file for distribution.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 06:26:44 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • 夜化

     @p @Yoruka @ins0mniak Yeah, just just don't need to do this kind of stuff, in fact I just checked and bmake includes a ./make-bootstrap.sh script (less than 100 lines) that's effectively a simplified version of the Makefile (over 200 lines).

     And you can compile GNU make with probably any make implementation as even pdpmake just works for it.

   • Embed this notice
     tsoifan1997 (sysrq@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:13 JST tsoifan1997

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • 夜化
     @p @Yoruka @ins0mniak
     >it wouldn't even produce syntactically correct XML
     NOTABUG, WONTFIX
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:13 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • tsoifan1997
     • 夜化
     @sysrq @Yoruka @ins0mniak :chad:
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:14 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 夜化
     @Yoruka @ins0mniak
     
     > I use it to train my vocabulary in English sometimes
     
     That's actually a pretty good use, I think.
     
     > it does always fail me when I ask about coding in Assembly or C.
     
     Trained on Python/JS, so as expected. A non-coder asked it to make her some SVG and it wouldn't even produce syntactically correct XML.
   • Embed this notice
     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:15 JST 夜化

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak I use it to train my vocabulary in English sometimes and it does that well just these simple tasks. it does always fail me when I ask about coding in Assembly or C.
     
     also when you ask it to make a diagram for something it generates an image that is just generic AI slop. And when I ask for ASCII art it generates unreadable shit I didn't ask for
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:16 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 夜化
     @Yoruka @ins0mniak If you wanna repeatedly do that riddle about the two gatekeepers that always lie and one that always tells the truth, maybe. Apparently it has no trouble making shit up, I've seen it do that.
     
     It's not even really useful as a duck because it will argue your premise instead of helping you, even if you want it to help you think something through. I tried to poke it when someone had hooked it up to a bot here, right? So I asked it about the loli question, it told me that it depends on what the rules decided by the community were, I said I set the rules, it told me to ask a mod, I told it that I run the site, it just refused to help in any capacity. I ran the Facebook LLaMA locally, it dutifully produced useless babble at me the same as any other chatbot. I would really like for it to be useful but I haven't seen it yet.
   • Embed this notice
     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:17 JST 夜化

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak just put nigger in everything you send so that it doesn't train on that I don't like the no consent data scaping either but it's actually a good tool to learn shit that is not about coding
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:18 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 夜化
     @Yoruka @ins0mniak You had me going until you said "ChatGPT".
   • Embed this notice
     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:19 JST 夜化

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak i honestly just use chatGPT to generate my Makefiles so that i can just code my code without worrying about that. It IS probably just a skill issue but not one i am wiling to fix
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:20 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 夜化
     @Yoruka @ins0mniak Makefiles are great without the cruft that accumulated. mk is a reasonable replacement.
   • Embed this notice
     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 10:06:21 JST 夜化

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @ins0mniak I really don't like writing makefile, cargo always worked fine for me. But I guess it is bloated shit yes.
   • Embed this notice
     夜化 (yoruka@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:51:06 JST 夜化

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     @lanodan @p @ins0mniak at last we can all universally agree CMake is normalfag garbage
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:51:17 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 夜化
     @ins0mniak @Yoruka @lanodan Oh, I forget what I was typing as soon as I close the window, so I should cram stuff into mkfiles or shell scripts religiously, but I do not.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ins0mniak (ins0mniak@majestic12.airforce)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:51:18 JST ins0mniak

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     • 夜化
     @p @Yoruka @lanodan I never use them.
     
     Tho I code like a meth-head so ya know...
   • Embed this notice
     ins0mniak (ins0mniak@majestic12.airforce)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:51:28 JST ins0mniak

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     • 夜化
     @p @Yoruka @lanodan I don't do anything the way anyone probably should. It works for me though.
     
     you should see my comments.
     
     //this part is retarded fix later
     
     */buy almond milk and steak by Friday */
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:51:48 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 夜化
     @ins0mniak @Yoruka @lanodan
     
     > you should see my comments.
     > //this part is retarded fix later
     > */buy almond milk and steak by Friday */
     
     Ha, I just popped into the init script part of Revolver and there's a big comment block with a list of movies I had planned to torrent.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:52:24 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 夜化
     @ins0mniak @Yoruka @lanodan
     
     > Yeah I dont like formatting.
     
     Ha, that's how Arthur Whitney does it. He legit got yelled at by his CS101 professor when they were assigned to print out the largest number of primes and he just printed them concatenated with no spaces or line breaks in an obfuscated program, like "2357111317192329".
     
     I like indentation but I do enough, like, 1kB awk scripts bashed out on a single line that I have maybe given myself some bad habits.
     
     > "you not my dad"
     
     This reminds me of a thing I can't find.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ins0mniak (ins0mniak@majestic12.airforce)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:52:26 JST ins0mniak

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     • 夜化
     @p @Yoruka @lanodan ha
     
     Yeah I dont like formatting. It's why python drives me nuts.
     
     I like things compact and tight.
     
     like
     
     package main
     import "fmt";
     func main() {
     fmt.Println("lets party")
     }
     
     people give me shit like "don't do that"
     
     "you not my dad"
   • Embed this notice
     ins0mniak (ins0mniak@majestic12.airforce)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:53:04 JST ins0mniak

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     • 夜化
     @p @Yoruka @lanodan Yeah I've always down it like that. For some reason it just makes more sense to my brain to have things all tight and line by line. Python frustrates the daylights out of me they way it forced indentations and such.
     
     I took one computer class in my life and I wanted to punch the guy. He would legit yell at you if you were touching the mouse or keyboard while he was talking.
     
     At one point he had his screen projected on the whiteboard, I was like "hey bro you know your log in password is up there in cleartext"
     
     Yeah I didnt finish that shit.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 14:53:33 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • 夜化
     @ins0mniak @Yoruka @lanodan
     
     > I took one computer class in my life and I wanted to punch the guy.
     
     Many such cases.
     
     > your log in password is up there in cleartext
     
     :cereal:
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.