@eriner I am giving just a tiny bit of deference to them and their feeling that something isn't quite right about AI stuff, but personally have adopted a different attitude about it and a few other pieces of software where I admit I am spreading around a smaller percentage of displeasure to get a bigger percentage of productivity. on average I come out ahead using AI so I get over the "smell displeasure" of AI.
@eriner I watched a really long video about AI risk that postulates about an attacker inserting malicious code into your codebase via LLM service. It's a perfectly valid thing to think about but literally every comment is a dumbass leveraging it to argue that LLMs are useless. I would feel unsatisfied if every comment on my videos heaped me with praise but misunderstood what I said
@sun It has its faults, but it's objectively useful for many use-cases even if it has a failure rate of ~10%+, as long as the user accepts that and accounts for it.
Most of the non-remediable issues are simply side-effects of the increased tool sophistication, particularly for those with little to no technical skills (i.e, spam, people using tools to create malicious content)
@sun Yeah, the spam problem is not going to get better. I mean, look at some of the Twitter bots. Some of them are pretty sophisticated (and existed before LLMs) in generating enough spam to drown out reasonable discourse.
It's demoralizing, but only highlights the importance of socializing primarily AFK and making (and maintaining) connections with real people.
The golden era of early Internet is ending, if it wasn't over years ago.
@eriner over on the farcaster network there is super sophisticated llm spam (usually gets caugght but not always) and it exists despite the traditional idea that having to pay 6 bux for an accoubt will stop spam
@sun@eriner A ton of Xitter spam comes from verified accounts. They'll just pay to spam if whatever scam they run can recoup those costs, which it always can unless you make it too expensive for normal people to pay.
@sun Yeah, a social "web of trust"-like system (which I guess FoaF is -- I'd never heard of it) is probably the only way forward.
Though, I could envision a future where it's allowed to become bad enough (Problem, Reaction, ...) that the "solution" people clamor for is government-backed centralized identity online.
@eriner the future is centralized heavily on overt government control and broken up by firewalls between hostile government alliance lines. very bleak but thats whats coming because the good future is too hard under the best conditions
@sun I think the only reason it's been allowed to continue the way it has (and may always be that way, who knows) is because it has military intelligence value.
@eriner I am extremely black pilled. personal encryption is going to be outlawed and there will be a secure execution chip on every device that you'll have to authenticate yourself to that tags every packet you send with your identity.
@eriner btw everything you've done thats ever been recorded in a computer since the 1960s will be made accessible to this system and will be used against you without consideration for how culture or people have changed in the last several decades, that comment you made in 1994 is insensitve in 2050 so expect charges
@sun Population control generally works best with carrots and not sticks.
I could see it happening, but it would have to be the solution to a problem.
The scenario I outlined earlier (spam, "dead Internet") could be one circumstance where that occurs, as your prediction is basically the same as my thesis but with the addition of an on-device specialized crypto module.
I concede it could happen, but it won't happen with a stick, only with a carrot.
@bot@eriner@sun I wonder if people that are conscious have to co exist with AI with a bunch of NPC feeling that it’s somehow conscious. Just like browsing twitter or instagram comments I guess. Even high IQ people can completely lack consciousness though
@cine@eriner its hard to sum it up but I play all the steps up to this point and I noticed that resistance to these things gets harder while the justifications grow so its just inevitable
@cine@eriner every component has already been invented and proposed at some point in the past and they just keep bringing it back to less and less resistance every time
@skylar@eriner a firmware update to the intel trusted execution engine will re-enable the trusted computing screen to keyboard control that was attempted in 2005 and shot down
plans for national id are already written they already have vendors picked out, they are waiting for the right emergency to roll it out
@sun@eriner it won't happen no western government is competent enough to come up with such a scheme, nor has the political will to stand up to overwhelming opposition from every business that finds out how much it'll cost and how many years it'll take to upgrade their infrastructure.
would you like a shitty, half-assed national digital ID system that costs hundreds of billions more than planned, and takes 10 years longer than planned to build out so it's worthlessly outdated by the time it's ready to go instead? online banking will require a java plugin that's so fucking poorly written and unreliable that it's easier to just drive to the bank and wait in line for the teller.
@sun@eriner and then almost immediately after such a firmware update is released, it will be rescinded in a panic after they realize it's breaking compatibility with many of the countless combinations of devices attached to PCs
this isn't a rapidly implement in the aftermath of an emergency scale project, it's a decades and trillions of dollars in infrastructure project. major breaking changes on the protocol level will largely require new hardware, and no vendor or group of vendors has the production capacity to crank out new hardware at a rate that matches demand from even a slow, sector by sector rollout affecting only the banking industry, then the healthcare industry, etc. software vendors won't have enough competent programmers to implement the changes in the accumulated decades worth of business software. with the way literally every business and local government in the west spends the absolute bare minimum on IT infrastructure and holds onto everything old until it literally breaks, it ain't happening. i am still finding hubs used in production, sunman. the fax machine will outlive us all.
@eriner@skylar texas tried to resist REAL ID Act and the federal government went so far as to say they would shut down all international airports in Texas if they didn't comply, and texas rolled over immediately
@skylar@eriner in south korean everybody had to use internet explorer because of shitty activex plugins websites required because of government compliance
@sun@eriner the key word here is badly like the shitty java plugin you'd have to use for online banking, where people just get in the habit of paying all bills a week early so they have time to make it to a bank branch when the app just refuses to do anything but say "sorry, an error occurred".
@sapphire@skylar@eriner I said it's inevitable and would happen in my lifetime and that central id is the key component with most of the other components already being in place. you can squirm around all you want, several states have already implemented it completely
@sun@skylar@eriner yeah good idea, call out the program that is billions over budget and half a decade behind schedule to beat Skylar’s allegations of programs billions over budget and half a decade behind schedule
@sapphire@eriner@skylar several european countries straight up have national smart card ids, we are gonna have that here eventually. all that banking software you guys are claiming doesn't exist is already being used
@sapphire@skylar@eriner yeah the new id requirements arent't even smartcards that would be an additional step. however I am suspicious that america can't really do it when nigeria could
@sun@skylar@eriner >eventually the gold star IDs aren't that and it took them 10 years to roll that out lmao, I won't see it in my lifetime I bet my right nut
@skylar@eriner@sapphire that part will happen in my lifetime, not real soon. the hardware is completely capable of it and ms had working code for it in the early 2000s
@sun@eriner@sapphire the technical hurdles to "tag every packet you send with your identity" vs requiring state DMVs to require a few more government documents when issuing a driver's license is like the difference between drop kicking a baby and fighting 12 mike tysons at once.
@sun@eriner@sapphire meanwhile in reality: banks won't let you set a password longer than 24 characters, MFA isn't even an option, and the password can be reset by anyone with the last 4 digits of your SSN
@sapphire@skylar@eriner I mean it obviously is political will and it intersects with the ambiguity about identity that is useful for illegal labor, the biggest challenge for real id is verifying the original identity before issuing the card, wanting to avoid requiring it for voting id while still requiring the id for driving, and general stubbornness against making the card free before requiring it. as I said a bunch of states already do it, you can temporarily opt out of it but if you do you can't fly or enter a courthouse
@DemonSixOne@skylar@eriner@sapphire do you figure it will just never get implemented and get pushed back another two years several times before it's abandoned? is there any evidence that anything related to antiterrorism has just been dropped? I can only think of one thing which was they tried to put TSA into amtrak and people absolutely would not tolerate gate-raping grandma for such a cheap-ass travel option
@sapphire@sun@skylar@eriner Yes and I expect that the implementation date will get pushed another 2 years again, because uptake on travel ID is still pretty low and the infrastructure still isnt in place or is already not working due to EOL hardware/software. Toss in another round of government budget shutdown and there you go.
@DemonSixOne@eriner@sapphire@skylar everything in america is super slow and fucking expensive to implement compared to like everywhere else on earth but things still eventually happen
@skylar@eriner@sapphire I have worked on bank software as well, I had to help retire a non-PCI compliant payment infrastructure system in 2006 because it literally could not be converted to be compliant. We looked at the task and gave them options and it was decided to self-terminate a billion dollar a year business rather than change.
did you know that banks were tried to force to do two factor by law, they couldn't stop the law but they got lobbyists to water down the legal definition of two factor to be "two things you know" so include that stupid shit like "favorite color" as the second factor and that is why every bank does that.
@sun@eriner@sapphire i've worked on banks internal infrastructure and dealt with bank people. absolutely nothing will change until they literally cannot continue to do business without barely scraping by the new minimum regulatory requirements, and they'll only start the process immediately before the deadline.
@sapphire@eriner@skylar it is from the federal government not the state, the entire real id act is a procedural workaround to avoid requiring a "national id" while in effect having every single attribute of a national id.
@skylar@eriner@sapphire there are multiple tiers to pci compliance based on type of business and how much money you process, the first two tiers are mostly self reporting but the second tier also requires an auditor, who guaranteed, will ask you the dumbest questions you have ever heard
@sun@eriner@sapphire the secret to PCI compliance is everyone just lies or at the very least plays fast and loose with what counts as the card processing environment.
@skylar@eriner@sapphire I was the sole implementor of PCI compliance in 2005-2006 for a big nonprofit, there were a lot less rules then than when I had to do it again in 2021 lol. there were big fat loopholes in the 2005 version that I was forced to exploit to make the system technically compliant, the people that built the system before me were storing all the cvv2 codes so they could get a discount rate on charges done months later on a timer
@sapphire@skylar@eriner one of the big points of real id was simply that it had higher reruirements for every state. so in many states you can renew a license if you already had one and at no point did you ever produce a birth certificate. drivers licenses often did not require ssn card or birth certificate because ssn was federal and just plain not everybody had a birth certificate at all or accessible. tbh I don't remember the requirements for a passport before patriot act but after the patriot act ssn card was required for everything including stupid shit like just a bank account.
@sun@eriner@sapphire so true there is one that keeps failing because a port is open but it doesn't have a TLS certificate so it's insecure it's the ACME port for let's encrypt to automatically renew the certificate on the real port every however often they're up for scans, someone has to open a ticket with the vendor to explain that.
@sapphire@skylar@eriner@DemonSixOne ok but "everyone has to cough up a birth certificate but not everybody has a birtth certificate so you can't make it mandatory day one" is a different problem than a machine you need hundreds of costing a million dollars in 2001 needing to come down in price but it won't come down in price until people buy the damn things
@DemonSixOne@skylar@eriner@sun we've had the new 3D TSA scanners that let you keep water bottles and shit pretty much since 2001 and they only started rolling out in the last year or two
@sun@skylar@eriner@sapphire In USA "antiterrorism" is mostly a means in which funding gets diverted to contractors that mostly produce nothing, deliver late and overbudget because of various mandates like 51% of vendors have to be woman owned ethnic albanian companies. By the time they deliver, some technology vendor has been bought out/merged/bankrupt and the product no longer meets federal testing standard 747769385 and the new technology isn't compatible with or certified for the janky albanian software.
@sapphire@skylar@eriner@DemonSixOne it is an unbearable burden to force poor black people to get id so they can vote elections, that is voter suppression (somehow they still get social security checks, which for years now require bank account, which for years now have required the same id to open)
@sapphire@skylar@eriner@vc@hakui of course (i mentioned this previously but conventiojnally two factor means you have two different kinds of factors or nobody says two factor until banks needed to comply to the letter of the law so they had it changed)
@sun i don't think the problem's AI. The very term "AI" is a midcentury marketing term meant to land grants. The problem is with retards of every stripe taking a position on something they clearly don't understand, as well as with the retards who do understand it taking advantage of those who don't.
@sun@skylar@eriner@sapphire fwiw, we have smard card enabled ids and they are used by almost no one. might be because germans are usually pretty pro-privacy.
another thing i noticed: you probably want to have migrants which form subcultures. i think the millions of turks we have in germany are the best insurance against the state going full throttle authoritarian.
@bonifartius@skylar@eriner@sapphire how much immigration we should have is a different discussion from should there be a giant human trafficking pipeline across the border to satisfy america's hunger for the cheapest possible labor