AnarchoNinaWrites
"The American public voted for Trump," "the American public will learn," "the American people were duped by a conman..."
Can you mutherfuckers PLEASE STOP?
Trump is literally on 75M votes; he got 74M last time. This is not about a whole bunch of NEW PEOPLE turning fascist.
10M fucking people just stayed home because they didn't see what the point in voting for genocide, a police state, and being buds with the Cheney family was.
GOIDDAMNIT I fucking hate our media.
AnarchoNinaWrites
I sear to fucking christ these people do not know, or do not WANT to know, any answer but "appease fascism."
Trump is the SAME DAMN GUY he was FOUR YEARS ago; the Dems just ran SIGNIFICANTLY TO the RIGHT of where they were in 2020.
AnarchoNinaWrites
The Dems literally lost because they ran a campaign for Republicans and guess what? Your fucking BASE are NOT Republicans. It's right there in the fucking numbers and the results from both 2016 and 2020.
Anyone telling you the answer is to appeal more to the 75M fascists who backed Trump is simply looking for an excuse to make out with fascists.
PERIOD. The fucking numbers are RIGHT THERE.
AnarchoNinaWrites
Joe Biden was not a uniquely charismatic dude. Nor was his legislative record anything anyone but bougie cracker liberals would write home about. The guy wrote the fucking 1994 Crime bill, used to eulogize segregationists, and was a huge cheerlead for the disastrous Iraq War.
He won, by MILLIONS of votes, because he promised to end the wars, reign in police violence, dismantled the migrant carceral complex and punish Nazis.
What did Harris promise? YEAH NOT FUCKING THAT.
AnarchoNinaWrites
Like we have THREE elections worth of data on running against this SAME FUCKING GUY now.
Harris/Clinton: Run a campaign for Never Trump Republicans, bougie surburban crackers, rich donors, and NatSec ghouls = LOSE to a reality TV show assclown nazi.
Biden: Run a campaign for a diverse coalition containing young people, Black people, brown people, poor people, and anyone else who opposed nazis = WIN and by MILLIONS.
Fuck your narrative; it's RIGHT THERE IN THE NUMBERS AND RESULTS.
AnarchoNinaWrites
Writing op eds about what mystical forces could have caused Trump to win over so many people Trumpism is about persecuting; it's ALL BULLSHIT. You're talking about percentages of votes, so when MILLIONS of people stay HOME because you ran right of George W Bush and that's not exactly a thing DEMOCRATS AND ANTIFASCISTS WANT TO VOTE FOR, it looks like Trump GAINED in those demos. But he didn't. He's on 75M votes. You just pissed away 10M votes running for Never Trump Republicans as a Reaganite pig
AnarchoNinaWrites
Harris literally could have dusted off Biden's 2020 platform, word for word and said "I'm for these things and I'm not responsible for the fact that the guy I worked for failed to deliver them; I was Vice President and if you make me President I'll get you the goods" and she would have racked up 81+ Million votes and beat this assclown. She choose the other way, the way Hillary lost in 2016.
And I absolutely REFUSE to accept that you assclowns analyzing this election cannot see this.
AnarchoNinaWrites
So why are they lying to you? Guilt, shame? Stupid?
No, because THESE NARRATIVES they're pushing A) allow their rich donors and members of the ruling class (of which most of the party leadership belong to) to collaborate with fascists and retain control over the OPPOSITION to Trumpism, despite the fact that they've lead you to ruin.
If they ADMITTED they blew it by appeasing nazis, you'd demand people be fired and would turn on anyone COLLABORATING WITH FASCISTS for profit.
AnarchoNinaWrites
And please, ffs, stop telling me "it's racism and sexism" because I will blow my fucking stack. Let's review:
A) The existence of racism and sexism were known quantities when she was nominated; you nominated her anyway
B) Obama is a Black guy and won two terms just fine
C) Harris's 2024 platform was originally Joe Biden's 2024 platform and Biden, a WHITE IRISH DUDE, polled WORSE than Harris finished
D) Trump got 74M votes in 2020, and 75M in 2024
"racism and sexism exist" is NOT an excuse.
AnarchoNinaWrites
Millions of shitlords did not turn out to vote against the Black woman; that did not happen. The numbers are VERY CLEAR that this is NOT what happened.
AnarchoNinaWrites
Literally the only NEW thing about this entire election? The only thing that's different from both 2016 and 2020?
Somehow, Trump leveraged Youtubers, Podcasters, and fucking Pro Wrestlers into replacing the portion of his base that aged out/perished over the past 8 years with your angry white sons. So great job American parenting.
But that's it. Everything else is EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT HAS BEEN THE LAST TWO TIMES.
Alan
@AnarchoNinaWrites maybe it was a bad idea sending the police to harass and beat the most active young political activists in colleges who dared speak up against genocide - you know the ones that also volunteer to work for the grinding ground get out the vote efforts during presidential campaigns. That's not just killing the turnout on a direct 1:1 basis, that's leveraging the disaffection by at least an order of magnitude
AnarchoNinaWrites
@metaphase Yeah who knew emulating LBJ's war on college students who hate murder could be a bad idea politically...
(note: everyone who studied why Nixon won twice knew. But apparently our "leaders" are just so fucking smart...)
AnthonyJK-Admin
It's not so much that they think they are "smart"; it's that they have been paid very, very well by our corporatist conservative elite to parrot the same tired "Democrats will never be 'centrist' enough until they break off the 'left' and meet the 'American electorate' in the right-wing 'middle'!!!!" bullshit they have for the past 40 or so years. It's really all they've been taught and paid to regurgitate.
AnarchoNinaWrites
Like I told you every fucking waking moment since 2016-17; nazis, were ALWAYS going to vote for the NAZI.
It was not me who lead anyone to believe otherwise. It was your LEADERS who insisted they could be convinced, saved, persuaded. And a whole bunch of bougie cracker liberals who NEVER ONCE ACCEPTED that their friends, family, and co-workers had WILLINGLY EMBRACED fascism went along with it because admitting the TRUTH would make lunches with nazis and Thanksgiving diner AWKWARD.
AnarchoNinaWrites
So many people have this stupid theory of elections based on the idea that America is somehow 330M undecided people who MIGHT vote for the Dems or the GOP, depending on who gives a better speech or some shit.
It's not true. It hasn't been true for decades at a minimum. In fact, I suspect is has NEVER been true.
The nazis were ALWAYS going to vote for the nazi. Your job was to churn out NOT NAZIS (which btw, Biden did in 2020 running way left o Harris/Clinton) not to CONVINCE NAZIS.
GhostOnTheHalfShell
May I presume that Christmas and Thanksgiving are going to be really awkward this year.
Who knows maybe Junior or that cousin run around that is female relatives, saying your body my choice and think he’s clever.
It’s going to be a really awkward holiday season
AnarchoNinaWrites
@farah I mean, all you're saying is "sexism exists." And I dunno how relevant that point is to this discussion.
Biden, a white irish guy, ran on the same platform and was polling WAY WORSE than Harris finished.
So if sexism was a deciding factor, we could have expect her to do worse than Biden was polling, and Trump to significantly increase his voter numbers.
Neither of those things happened.
So, no I don't think it can be both. Sexism exists. It's not WHY she lost.
Mama Ganoush :v_bi:
@AnarchoNinaWrites It could be both, no? She went right and also she’s a lady..?
AnarchoNinaWrites
@waitworry @farah I can't even accept that this could not be counteracted, because in 2020 Biden ran a platform saying "okay, we get it, we understand why you're angry and we're here to help." And he did so with NO EVIDENCE he could be trusted to keep his promises, and in fact a political track record of being reactionary/winger neoliberal swine who opposed all those things.
Result? Win, 81M votes, more than anyone had/has ever gotten in a presidential election.
Claire, The Ultimate Worrier
@farah @AnarchoNinaWrites honest truth I think the real deciding factor was well over a decade of extremely bad choices by the democrats that brought us to this moment
AnarchoNinaWrites
@waitworry @farah Harris simply didn't give anyone who wasn't a comfy white liberal, or a Never Trumper anything to vote for. In fact, if Trump wasn't such an existential threat to so many Americans, I think she would have done WORSE because that presumed base is simply not large.
Biden lied, we all knew he was probably lying, 81M people voted on the off chance he wasn't lying.
So I can't prove a counterfactual; but I am PRETTY damn sure, she COULD have won this.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@farah @waitworry yes. That's precisely what I'm saying; I'm just elaborating on HOW she did that and why it was predictable. Otw, we are saying the same thing here. Yes.
Mama Ganoush :v_bi:
@AnarchoNinaWrites @waitworry Problem with Harris campaign was they tried to find magical non existent voters, instead of retaining the loyal base they have already
AnarchoNinaWrites
Anyway, there's your autopsy that I've been trying to write in essay form for the better part of a week but simply can't because I'm TOO FUCKING ANGRY and bougie media minions keep coming up with 200 new excuses a day that conveniently mean their friends in the political class are not responsible and should retain power.
I might still write that essay, but we were running out of time and the zone is flooded with bullshit.
So there's your autopsy. I'm right. You fucking KNOW I am. They lying.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@farah @waitworry Definitely. It wasn't the ONLY issue, but I'd bet you a shiny half dollar it was the BIGGEST one.
Mama Ganoush :v_bi:
@AnarchoNinaWrites @waitworry Yes the other day I was saying, she should’ve lied about Gaza. I know it’s terrible, but it might’ve made a difference
your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦
🗣️ 📣 LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
related, because fucking numbers:
https://mastodon.social/@blogdiva/113465613907649154
AnarchoNinaWrites
@Pineywoozle That is not why they didn't vote.
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote
@AnarchoNinaWrites The millions who voted for Biden who didn’t even vote this time shocked me. I knew racism & misogny were rampant & I know there were some shenanigans, but to throw Democracy under the buss & your friends & fam with it because you couldn’t make yourself vote for the brilliant hard working experienced black woman…
AnarchoNinaWrites
@Pineywoozle Read the thread.
Joe Biden ran on: ending the forever wars, reigning in police violent, dismantling the migrant carceral complex, and punishing nazis.
Harris ran on: a genocide, we love cops, fascist immigration laws, and hugging nazis.
It's right there in the platform. Harris ran a campaign for Never Trump Republicans and bougie surburban crackers afraid of brown people; the problem is that's not her base, it's Trump's.
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote
@AnarchoNinaWrites Why do you think the ones who voted for Joe in 2020 just didn’t vote this time?
Death by Lambda
@AnarchoNinaWrites
The problem is a coalition of BIPOC will step up to vote for Biden.
White people wouldn't turn out to vote for Harris.
It is in your numbers.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@xdydx Again, Biden was POLLING WORSE THAN HARRIS before he STEPPED DOWN.
So. No.
"the Biden campaign’s own internal polling at the time when they were telling us he was the strongest candidate, showed that Donald Trump was going to win 400 electoral votes"
AnarchoNinaWrites
@Pineywoozle I'm not here to play fantasy with you.
Good day.
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote
@AnarchoNinaWrites I don’t think even if that were true, that that explains away millions who voted for Joe just not voting nor do I think that’s a pic of her campaign. She ran on helping America solve its issues, unemployment, healthcare, old age care & manufacturing. She got lies about not doing anything about Gaza shouted at her when voters who hadn’t been conditioned to hate Dems & blame them instead of Rs would have headed the call from their religious leaders to please vote for Kamala.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@Pineywoozle You are absolutely fucking bonkers; Harris finished with 10M LESS voters than Biden got in 2020.
I'm done. Go play fantasy in someone else's fucking replies.
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote
@AnarchoNinaWrites Except that both Biden & Clinton saw an increase in turnout. An increase each Tim. A substantial one both times. Then with a more exposed, criminally convicted tRump openly stating he would be a fascist and hey here’s our play book millions just shrugged & said “Nah, not gonna vote” So, no a drop in voter turnout of millions of Americans who had voted against tRump is not “EXACTLY THE SAME”
@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote
@AnarchoNinaWrites That’s what I said. 2016 and 2020 both saw huge jumps in turnout and all of a sudden there is a drop of millions. Your statement that nothing changed with this election. 2 elections in a row with increased turnout then a drop of millions is expressly not. “EXACTLY THE SAME”
AnarchoNinaWrites
@Pineywoozle Holy shit she TIED Obama in 2012, it was NOT a huge turnout increas and fucking POPULATIONS GROW. You don't lose 10M fucking votes because "don't like the Black woman."
BIDEN on the SAME Platform as HARRIS ran in 2024 was on pace to give up 400 EC votes. Is Biden a DUDE? Is Biden WHITE?
I'm done. You do not fucking read the shit I type. You're leaving, here's your fucking block.
AnthonyJK-Admin
Most. BIPOC voters would vote for ANY Democrat against ANY Republican unless (s)he went stone-cold KKK racist.
Copmala LOST voters across the board, though, because she continued to defend Israel genocide (bye, Arab Americans in MI and PA), defended Biden's neoliberal economics after he knifed Sanders' "progressive" agenda for the safety of Manchinema, and went hard Right for invisible anti-Trump conservatives by attempting to out-Trump him on immigration.
and
AnthonyJK-Admin
And then, she and the Dems attempted to double down by browbeating progressives that this was the ONLY alternative to "Trump fascism", while working openly to crush any and all Left alternatives through the court system and other means.
Alienate the Left while pandering to the Right who will never vote for you anyway?? Yeah, that's a losing strategy every damn time.
AnthonyJK-Admin
Oh, and need I remind everyone here that we are talking about voting numbers within the context of a system where less that 43% of those who could vote ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO VOTE??
Where a significant majority of Congressional district races went UNOPPOSED, even in a post-reapporachament election, with turnouts barely reaching 30%??
Where candidates are nominated in primary elections with turnouts as low as TWENTY PERCENT??!!???
Democracy?? ForWHOM??
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph Because America has always been fascist, and has been mainlining fascist ideology for decades, and because "we have to stop the fascists" doesn't work all that well when you're promising people a genocide, a police state, and cooperating with fascists.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not absolving Americans for being dogshit here; but fascism hasn't been a dealbreaker in this country for the vast majority of its existence. There are at least 75M fascists in America.
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites I'm with you on this, but it still doesn't explain why the real majority turned out to be "Refuse to vote AGAINST a literal Nazi"...
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph Like, there's no theory involved there. Harris didn't fail to make the argument he's a nazi; although I'd say she failed to make the argument that she would oppose nazis. Either way tho, plenty of Americans shrugged.
Tellingly, Biden didn't run as an anti-fascist either in 2020; he said he'd punish nazi crooks. But that's not the same thing.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph Because they don't think they have anything to gain by supporting the 3rd Reich. It is after all, finished.
But a lot of people, both historically and today, see upside in fascism and believe they will not be the targets of that regime. The answer to why they didn't care enough to vote when nothing was in it for them is the same answer as why vast portions of our society don't care about colonial massacres, or police violence against people who don't look like them. "Not me."
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites No, I know - but fucking why!? This isn't just a US question, or a this election question; people are poo-poo'ing our worries & even commending TFG all around the world, too, without suffering any consequences, indicating the same mechanism at work everywhere. We can also turn the question around: Why do most people emphatically agree that Nazi Germany was terrible if most people are actually fine with fascism?
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph That having been said - both of these things were constantly in 2020 and 2024. Biden did things to make them vote FOR something, even something I suspect a lot of them knew he would not deliver on. Harris by contrast said "you can stop this particular fascist, but you have to support a bunch of things you hate and I'm not offering you anything you want."
Whether that's right, or moral, is not an argument that goes anywhere. You and I can agree it's not; but the name of the game is win.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph My position is, and has been, for months and months that "hold your nose for a genocide, expanded police funding, fascists migration laws and rehabilitating neocons to vote against Trump" would not be enough. And I think it's very clear I was correct.
You go to war with the electorate you have; not the one you wish you had. So, in all seriousness and not being snarky to you at all "why didn't they just shut up and vote" is not a relevant question. It was predictable they would not.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph This is a country that wholly internalized that SOME deserve to die, and some deserve to live. That some DESERVE opulent luxury, and some DESERVE to toil in misery to provide that opulent luxury. That some people matter, and some don't. That American exceptionalism means they matter, and other people don't.
Expecting them to vote to protect their neighbors or even worse, faceless minorities they've never met, was not realistic. "What's in it for me" was always going to be the question.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph So the only answer I can provide for "why" is "every waking moment of the history of this country, and the socio-political-economic order we still live under."
Every single day, millions of Americans choose to prioritize their perceived benefits, over the lives of others.
And perversely because that is the case, asking "why they didn't behave differently than everything they've ever been taught" is in some ways, not a relevant question.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph Should the knives ever come out for them, they will be the first to deny any responsibility for such. Sadly however, that's a realization that only comes to people once they knives ARE out for them.
There's a whole 'poem/little speech about this in Nazi Germany, starts with "first they came for the..."
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites I guess it's just a bit of a harsh awakening that people in general are somehow even worse at thinking about their own existence than I thought they were...
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph Sure, I agree with that, but that also brings me back to the fact that American elections are not about 330 undecideds who might go either way.
Trump has a base, fascists, and they were always going to vote for fascism. The Dems base is not Trump's base and the things that motivate them to vote were clearly articulated in Biden's 2020 platform that again, won 81 million votes - more than any campaign in history.
They vote for nihilism and hate. The Dem base votes for progress.
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites Just dawned on me: You're right that mobilizing people to vote against fascism failed because getting people out to vote *against* something is vastly more difficult than getting them to vote *for* something - but at the same time, voting for fascism *is itself voting against something*. More accurately, it's voting against FUCKING EVERYTHING!, because that's the core tenet of fascism: To stand united against. No, I didn't forget a word there. United against.
Headsplosion.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph The whole problem, if you simplify it down, is that Trump ran a campaign to turn out fascist Republicans, and Harris ran a campaign to... turn out Republicans who maybe don't want to admit they're pretty fashy. If both sides run for Republicans, then Republicans will win.
She had to turn out HER base, the one Biden WON with, and not only did she not do that, she mostly spit in its eye to chase suburbanite crackers and Never Trumpers.
Turning out your base = win. Trump did. Harris didn't
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph No, I get you. And I don't disagree. I guess it's just a different conversation than the one I was having, which is very much focused on "why."
But it's not a conversation I'm unwilling to have with you; I guess I was just a bit slow on the uptake that we'd essentially switched topics.
The nazis definitely are a death cult, and they definitely are voting "against" everything. They do however believe that advantages them somehow; but it's not the most important thing. Punishing us is.
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites We're not going to disagree that the establishment Left™️ is failing everywhere, or that their mistake is being reactive to the Right™️ turn, instead of presenting the ways forward that are so well known re. environment, equality, economy... we still have our work cut out for us, it's just more of a guerilla effort than I previously thought (or wanted to believe, the distinction is immaterial at this point).
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph This gets really deep into psychology, but on some basic level the fascists in the base have essentially accepted that we're fucked. That the planet is going to burn, that society is going to be a Bladerunner hellscape, that nothing is really every going to get better. What they're supporting now is a hierarchy they believe will allow them to to retain power, and privilege over the ash heap and offload the worst of the suffering onto the people they hate. It's nihilist and hierarchal.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph Every would be nazi thinks they'll be the dashing Captain drinking wine in the castle; nobody every thinks they'll be the dead guy face down in the Russian snow.
The very same mental gymnastics propel the entire capitalist order - hundreds of millions of people support capitalism against their own class interest because they are pretty sure, some day, they'll be the rich guy. It never made any sense in that case either, but we're talking about the same psychological forces here.
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites I get that, but it's deeply irrational & it takes very little intelligence - and not even that much thinking - to realize it, even if one doesn't know anything about crisis behavior. By its very nature hierarchy is thin at the top & wide at the bottom, so the odds of benefitting from it are *fart noise*. Conversely, collaboration is how we got fucking EVERYTHING.
Nihilism shouldn't appeal this broadly; see also "self-preservation".
AnarchoNinaWrites
@jwcph My parents, who I would describe as proto-fascists at the time, blew $125 bucks a week on lottery tickets for decades. So...
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency
@AnarchoNinaWrites If people think they're that lucky, you'd think gambling was more popular than it is...
(I know, lotteries are, in fact, popular - but not "more than half the population base life & death decisions on winning" popular)
Maier Amsden
@AnarchoNinaWrites I'd also like to give a shoutout to all the people who did selfish swing-state protest votes and sat at home with their thumbs up their asses while overt lawless bigotry-laced fascism took over the chief executive. That'll show 'em! And of course none of this would be possible without the #ConservativePropagandaMatrix and its millions of sad radicalized cult victims. I seriously hope y'all feel it every time a migrant child gets abused by this state.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@MaierAmsden No opinion. There's a lot of blame to go around, but the job of the candidate is to get elected, it's never a good idea to make your voters step over the dead bodies of children, and you go to battle with the electorate you have not the one you wish you had.
You can be mad at 10M people if you want to, but they weren't running for President as a Republican despite the Dem base being... well, not Republicans.
Maier Amsden
@AnarchoNinaWrites Lots of people associated inflation with Biden. The Democrat response of telling people the economy is actually good (based on the status of rich people's money, not the status of poor people's budgets) was not a great approach. You either make regular people's lives materially better or you lose to conmen promising to make people's lives materially better.
Maier Amsden
@AnarchoNinaWrites I can be angry at everyone who shat the bed. That includes both the DNC for being shitty and unappealing and non-Harris voters in swing states for selfish idiotic choices and priorities. They all deserve scorn.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@MaierAmsden Cool, so we find each other distasteful. We done here? I would be okay if we were.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@MaierAmsden To put it more directly; I do not wish to join you in being mad at people who couldn't or wouldn't vote for a genocide to save their own skin.
I find it distasteful. You can feel however you want to, but I don't want to commiserate with you because my position is "I dunno, maybe choosing losing to a fascist so you could continue a genocide for imperial purposes was the greater mistake."
I'm not telling you how to feel, but we're not in the same headspace here.
Maier Amsden
@AnarchoNinaWrites I find robbing voters of their agency and reasoning in an attempt to erase root causes and oversimplify a complicated issue to be distasteful.
AnarchoNinaWrites
@MaierAmsden Cool; I'm neither a priest nor a therapist tho, so maybe you could be angry with someone else?
LucyG
@AnarchoNinaWrites Another one: "we didn't know who he was in 2016" Motherfucker the villain of Back to the Future (**1985**) was modeled after him. We always knew who he was.
HairyPotter
@AnarchoNinaWrites im pretty sure the 1 million votes gained doesnt even track with population growth
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