13 barn owls in a trenchcoat
@MrHedmad very gently, on the assumption that you missed this nuance:
this post was clearly not an attempt to prove a point. It was an effort to provide vocabulary and identifiers for a problem that exists for many women and that does not require proving for its intended audience because it is part of their lived experience.
You (and, for that matter, I) are not its intended audience, thus should not need to engage with it, debate it, or correct it.
you╭👺+300╭🐈x5╭⁂+3╭(Ⓐ+a
you are focusing on entirely the wrong thing.
what you started with (and the strongest point of your argument) is that this is a double standard ("toxic" already being a watered down version of the point.)
then when you were confronted, you moved to defending the weakest of your points ("anecdote vs. anecdote"). sort of like reverse motte and bailey.
this. whole. dynamic. is the reason for what is described in OP. sapienti sat
Luca Visentin
@unspeaker My point is that you can't bring anecdotal evidence to prove a point. My own anecdotal evidence is there to show how stupid it is to prove a point by bringing just anecdotal evidence.
I used "toxic" as I thought it would be a good word to sum up what is a multiple-post-long piece, sorry if it came through as minimizing.
As I said before - I'm not arguing that what OP said is wrong, just that the evidence she is bringing to the table is weak.
Iris Young (he/they/she) (PhD)
@MrHedmad removing op as she clearly indicated your comment was not welcome in the first place --
Why? Why are you choosing this battle? Believe it or not, this is not about you. It's about women's experiences of meeting friction that is created expressly to slow them down and tire them out. Anecdotal is exactly the right mode of information for sharing these experiences, and sharing them has real purpose.
It doesn't matter if you individually match the stereotype (and for the record, your response is not helping your credibility here). It's not about you.
And it's not being handled poorly if it resonates with women and gives them space to imagine and create a better reality. It's. Not. About. You.
Luca Visentin
@iris I was not saying that what she is saying is false, it's just that the proff she showed is anecdotal...
Luca Visentin
@aby I will seem like an asshole, but this comment is genuine. While this might wery well be true, providing anecdotal evidence to support the notion that every (or most) white cis men are like this, and then immediately saying "This is not a debate", or "White, cis men need not comment" sounds toxic to me.
As we are dealing with anecdotes, I tend to say yes to all of my friends, including female ones.
The argument might very well be sound, but it's being handled poorly.
Aby--not fast, just furious
[white cis men need not comment]
#Men #Sexism #mansplaining #ToxicMasculinity #gaslighting #ReplyGuys
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