@WoodshopHandman RW people don't care about AI art not because RW people don't make art, but because all the companies that control entry into making a real living from art are controlled by progressives, and they intuitively understand it will hurt their enemies much worse than them.
Strictly speaking yes, there are "right wing people who make art", but when people say "there aren't any right wing artists" it's hyperbolic. It's overwhelmingly cartoonists. What isn't cartoons is often so overtly ideological it gives the impression that a work is made first and foremost as propaganda rather than an organic creative work that may be colored by an artist's personal views.
@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman yes, it's overwhelmingly cartoons, but I feel like that's already moving the goal posts.
If the point is "there isn't culture defining RW art" then yes you're 100% right. I don't think you can really get that level art without having a large real world culture to support it.
Lots and lots of ebegging in the gay twitter art sphere. These are not people with monolothic financial backing, generally. These are people who would rather live in poverty doing something they enjoy than have a stable living. It's a risk-attraction that does not really naturally intersect with most RW ideology.
@sickburnbro The point being that rightoids won't into art if they can't make money off of it, then? Do you think that every libtard artist on twitter is getting funded by blackrock or something?
@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman that's why I specifically mentioned owen. Some of his poster work takes multiple months, which is a lot of time, and most of that is religious rather than political.
Of the cartoons, they're mostly political cartoons. That is to say, it's overwhelmingly political, inherently. It's propaganda. If you want to get into semantics, yes, propaganda is art. I think its value as such is somewhat cheapened when it becomes obvious that the propaganda aspect takes priority over anything else. Just my opinion.
@WoodshopHandman@doctorsex Most people are only going to do something where they feel like it has some value for them. The entire culture being extremely progressive very effectively suppresses right wing art for this reason alone.
@doctorsex@sickburnbro And that's just an issue with the right wing in general, not just with art. They don't do things unless they can make money off of it, then wonder why grifters take center stage. The right wing position is often "mechanical efficiency above all else", likely caused by deeply ingrained libertarian priors, which is a big part of why Elon gets worshipped so much. There's no passion involved because they don't see passion or visual appeal as important or necessary for "art", and so we return to AI slop with indians shitrocketing into the air.
@patris@Myles@doctorsex@sickburnbro So right wing guys don't have any real constructive hobbies that don't involve spending a lot of money (consuming) or can be done without extensive government/corporate support structures? Is that what you're saying here?
@WoodshopHandman@patris@Myles@doctorsex No right wing guys do have creative hobbies, but when you have other things you need to balance, you can't just throw yourself into it to the detriment of everything else.
That combined with the overall culture is enough to produce what you see.
@patris@Myles@doctorsex@sickburnbro >Right-wingers have families to feed, and take that more seriously than progs, perhaps. And that means they can't have creative hobbies or make art? >Also they tend to be passionate about things that the current systems feeding capital into new ventures select against. Like what
@WoodshopHandman@Myles@doctorsex@sickburnbro Things that are highly regulated, so no access to the market on a small scale, or illegal entirely: Guns Cars/engines Alternative building technology Non-industrial food and beverage Non fcc compliant communications tech Cryptography
Things like that (each item in that list may our may not be guy I know)
But mostly it's time and money, not passion that's lacking, at least in my limited experience
@WoodshopHandman@doctorsex@sickburnbro I think it's less than there is no passion, and more the fact that right wingers have a very strong regard for consequences. Vanishingly few right wingers are going to roll the dice on monetizing their hobby
@Myles@doctorsex@sickburnbro My personal experience on the matter is that right wingers just don't have creative hobbies in general. They have "side hustles" that they typically give up when they can't make as much money as they want.
@WoodshopHandman@Myles@doctorsex@sickburnbro Right-wingers have families to feed, and take that more seriously than progs, perhaps. Also they tend to be passionate about things that the current systems feeding capital into new ventures select against.
@WoodshopHandman@patris@Myles@doctorsex but you can just look at youtube and look at guys that have channels that are "coded" and see how they behave, and see what they like.
Literally this. RWers will see ANYTHING that does not explicitly condemn what they hate as liberal propaganda, and have 0 ability to analyze media with their own intellectual abilities, they just believe what leftist journos say, they literally function as NPCs without a brain
I'm saying if you refuse to look at thing beyond a materialistic, utilitarian view, it's going to limit your potential. You lose the ability to analyze it beyond those metrics (what material gain does this grant me, and how immediately can it do so?). That's the right wing view on art. This is why they can still make propaganda but nothing else, because it must confer some immediate material (or perceived material) equivalent
@doctorsex@sickburnbro There's also a matter of needing everything to be political, so apolitical art by default HAS to be liberal. It's all "coded" a certain way. Anything that isn't owning ths libs/jews/niggers/trannies is a waste of time and it's for lefties. Like idk man sometimes a nigga just wants to paint a cat or something but the only people that will actually pay for that are libs.
@sickburnbro@doctorsex Yeah but the issue is that the left manages to see the non-monetary value in art, both in creating it and supporting it, and the right just *doesn't* for the reasons I described, ergo we return to "the right has surrendered art to the left".
The right segregates it's faith from it's politics either too much or in the wrong ways. This cuts them off from a deeper spiritual reading of things, and thus the right's ideology hinges firmly on deep-seated materialist priors.
@doctorsex@sickburnbro Not even necessarily talking about spirituality, there are psychological and biological benefits to a more beautiful or aesthetically appealing environment that just get flat out ignored beause a)it's not efficient (it costs time/money/effort without immediately tangible/visible material returns) or b)the lefty libtards like it so that means it's le bad!
True but it goes especially for RWers, because there are leftists who enjoy ambiguous if not outright right wing leaning media, or at least media done by self outed right wingers (movies by Gallo, Von Trier and Zahler come to mind). RWers cannot separate art from politics at all
Stonetoss makes highly political short comic strips, there's not much room for interpretation there. I'm talking about more expanded and complex forms of media
@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman His stuff is not "highly political" - at least half of it was social commentary that used to pass as acceptable in newspaper comics.
Saying that gays are pedophiles &/or are gay because they were abused as children is an objectively political statement in a time were LGBT activism is mainstream.
@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman the key is that you could take a picture of a husband, wife and happy children in 2024 and if you label it as "right wing" it will be considered "highly political"
Depicting a happy family is not a political statement, is not even a statement per se. Saying that you can be gay because you were raped as a child is way more controversial, hence more political. Only deranged terminally online giga leftists would find the depiction of a happy family as "right wing", no average leftists who doesn't spend every waking minute on Twitter or reddit would find that "political"
The implication is that lgbt is overwhelmingly a social phenomenon. I don't disagree with his consclusion, but I don't see how this undermines my point
In a vacuum, a happy family can be depicted in a number of ways, for any number of reasons, with very little inherent overlap with politics. A White family being depicted is inherently going to be political because "Whiteness" is a relevant point of controversy in the current climate (that isn't a moral statement on my part- just an observation)
The point is that RWers seem way more limited than leftists in making art that is not explicitly politically or at least ambiguous/open to interpretation, to the point that some self defined RWers artists (I mentioned a couple of famous filmmakers some posts ago) are appreciated by leftists more than RWers, despite them still being highly controversial. Von Trier literally said "Hitler was right" at Cannes and 90% of his audience is still left wingers, only because he makes stuff that is a bit too complex to process for the RW brain that is only looking for couchy, soft to digest stuff which sole message is "le nigger bad"
I don't recall any bad representation of that White family, nothing that can't be also found in the representation of non-White families (Turning Red and Across the Spiderverse show even more family conflict than Inside Out)
@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman The key is a large amount of people who say they are "liberal" or "conservative" are just people who want to get by in their community. And so if you want to get upset about either set of them "not caring" about the "real X values" .. you can do that.
Most people that have kids aren't so political that a non-offensive story that has a white girl as the main character and her family is part of the cast, that they're gonna get mad about it.
In this specific case I mean people who care about racial, gender and LGBTQ representation and themes in media, which is usually leftists, although you can argue that nowadays right wingers care to but on the "opposite end". To make it simpler I'd say I mean people who care A LOT about media having a certain quota if not majority blacks/browns, women and alphabet mafia tokens
Anime is hardly a western right wing political form of art, it only functions as a form of cope from the shit that the west has been making for many years.
If you can't name anything else I might start doubting right wing art even exists
I'd also argue that videogames are not inherently political, especially considering it was conservatives who first did the le Vidya bad bit in the late 90s/early 00s.
It became a right wing issue after Gamer gate, but the media itself it's enjoyed by both political sides
Hate to break it to you, but leftists despise him.
I can also make a less extreme example, "Ambulance" by Bay. The whole thing has very early 2000s action-macho man vibes and is essentially a celebration of masculine braveness and friendship. Leftists got crazy (in a positive way) on it because it features experimental camera work and is objectively a fun movie, RWers ignored it completely because one of the two main characters is black (the movie has 0 racial discourse whatsoever).
The only example I can think of of RWers not being completely blind and enjoying something that is not a podcast is probably the latest Top Gun entry.
Can you name some titles of media (excluding anime and vidyas) who have been, in recent years, positively discussed in the right wing sphere for their themes and state of art?
@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman the more crucial thing is that when you've already discussed a large back catalog, if you aren't being paid to rehash things, you've said what you've got to say and except for people trolling its pretty done
@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WandererUber@sickburnbro you act intentionally obtuse every time you get into one of these threads when everyone you're arguing (?) against is being very clear and blunt about what they mean. try talking like a normal person for once holy shit
You are the one who suddenly brought up rightoids, which you have then described as republicans who are allergic to woke media, which no one else talked about.
@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WandererUber@sickburnbro Niggas that obnoxiously have to see everything through a red vs blue political lens (they're on the red team) to the point where they can't enjoy or hate a thing for non-politically-motivated reasons. The type of niggas that will argue all day about whether Kaczynski was a liberal or a conservative. The guys that second guess their own enjoyment of things because they aren't sure if they're "allowed" to like something if it's not right-coded.
Any major art piece will have financial backing or aim to turn a profit. When it comes to minor individual passion pieces there are plenty of artists just drawing pretty women and landscapes that would all be considered "right wing".
@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WandererUber@sickburnbro >When it comes to minor individual passion pieces there are plenty of artists just drawing pretty women and landscapes that would all be considered "right wing". okay what's "right wing" about it? Are right-wingers buying it? Are they the ones making it? Understand that's I'm talking about the full scope of right-wingers here, from libertarians to republicans to internet nazis. The overwhelming majority of them simply do not participate in art, especially when compared to those on the left/liberal side of the political spectrum. That's the entire point of this thread.
But that's not true, there are things that these opponents do hate. It just so happens that these things are mostly in the form of anime and video games.
@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WandererUber@sickburnbro oh, okay so "right-wing art" means consumer products made by large companies and corporations instead of things made out of passion or artistic interest by actual individual people. yeah that doesn't prove the point at all, does it you fucking retard
@sickburnbro@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WandererUber Because I'm an unwilling misanthropist and having more people with beliefs I agree with being able to appreciate art instead of brutalist AI technoslop would make me a little less hating towards my fellow man?
Your point is correct but it also proves what I have been saying for a while now: the problem with media and RWers is recent (started 10/15 years ago). The only "good" media RWers point at is old, and seemingly nothing good that is also new can be produced (for RWers). I literally made a post earlier in this thread where I say RWers are nihilists who cope with old media and anime and can't produce anything new, because they think everything is under the control of leftists (partially true but not to the extent they think of)
@sickburnbro@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex >the point is you not knowing of places where it is discussed is perhaps more your issue Do u think that these things only being discussed in extremely niche recesses of the internet is not somehow either a cause or symptom of the problem?
@WoodshopHandman@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex You claim "only leftists like art" I provide some counter examples "well, it's only in small places" ok, but the reason you see the leftist stuff is because the system serves it up to you.
@Jens_Rasmussen@RikaDerufu@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman right, and I've made this point several times here. So as I've mentioned, they need to be able to clearly express what they are upset about in order to be able to get anywhere
Art journalism is overwhelmingly left wing because all publications and organizations that hire these people are left wing or simply follow the trend that is set for them.
Only real solution is for the same power structures that currently fund leftist art circles to instead fund rightist art circles. As usual, the solution requires taking over the government.
I am saying that RWers cannot point out an equivalent of Get Out for "right wing" art, at least if we are talking about recent stuff, which is what the initial point of the thread was.
Get Out managed to generate discussion on its themes and meanings even though it's (on the surface) explicitly leftists. The only non anime or old stuff that has been mentioned here is stonetoss, which is not comparable at all with the complexity of a movie, or a book.
As I said earlier, the problem with RWers and media is recent. The ones making media that generates discussions is leftists now, not RWers, because RWers have gotten too nichilist and cope with old media and products that are not even from their culture (anime).
The leftists have way more creativity to the point that they end up making stuff that can be read as literally the opposite of what you would expect (I saw the tv glow is a movie directed by a tranny which message seems to be, not even subtly, that transitioning is the result of depression, alienation and manipulation). It's fucking jarring seeing trannies saying through art what RWers yap through podcasts all the time
What the fuck are you saying? Where did I say it's not highly political? I literally wrote it's explicitly leftists, can you read nigger?
Get Out cannot be compared to Stonetoss strips because it has a more ambiguity, while still being highly political. Some critics interpret it as a criticisms of modern day White liberals more than White racists.
You're excluding highly political stuff and when someone says "this is right-wing because it has normal non-leftist value systems" you want to exclude it as well. Name an example from the left wing that fits your own criteria
@WoodshopHandman It's not my passion. I'd rather put that time into being a better writer. Or honestly writing at all since I haven't made a serious crack at it in ten years.
>I also don't get why you are mentioning Fight Club and Erin Brokhovic because you would have cried about these were you talking 20 years ago. Again, because of leftward drift in *mainstream* art.
>the problem RWers complain about is far more recent What problem is that?
I've never seen Erin Brokhovic so I can't speak for that, but I don't get your point with Fight Club. It's ambiguous enough that is loved by both left and right wingers, who can arbitrarily decide if the movie make their point or not.
From all the old examples you could make I would point out Apocalypto as a more explicitly right wing piece
@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman@sickburnbro what the fuck am I supposed to say to that? Literally everyone has been making movies giving all our talking points since for fucking ever. Even marvel made black panther say refugees are bad. How is this still jarring to you. Would you prefer a right winger made a "boohoo poor trannies" movie you tard? It's still a leftist movie.
>This is literally what RWers say, they point out examples of "right wing" art by citing movies of 20 years ago ok and as of your last post you agreed with them. The point was that right wing art has been on the outs since forever. At the time you'd have criticized those movies and said "Fight Club isn't right wing, why can't we make movies like Ellen Brokovich or whatever gay shit the left is doing now" My point is this asymmetry is not, as you claim, 15 years old, you just pulled this out of your ass. It has been getting worse since hollywood put the kibosh on anything not DEI, true, but the phenomenon is not new. Even Tolkien complained about it.
I'd even go as far as to claim the opposite and say it's actually getting BETTER, because first of all niche art forms like AI art and video games have lowered the barrier to entry such that dedicated right-wingers now have an "in" into art more than they used to. Secondly, there's way more people understanding the necessity for it and more importantly understanding that you cannot negotiate with "The System" and expect to eek out an existence within it, so you have to make dissident art, need dissident spaces to promote it and so forth. You're not gonna get your movie playing at the Chinese Theatre and people know this by now.
>would you prefer a right winger making a "boohoo poor trannies"
Ironic you point this out because some months ago I was in a thread with poasters who were making a "boohoo poor trannies they are just poor guys manipulated by evil therapist women" so at this point I'm kind of expecting a right wing take on it.
I also don't get why you are mentioning Fight Club and Erin Brokhovic out of nowhere, never mentioned those two movies.
And for the last part, making fun of women/gay/trannies was totally ok until not that far ago, the problem RWers complain about is far more recent. Not even mentioning that some directors still get a pass for "racist" stuff and barely get called out for it (PTA putting a single black actor in his last movie and the character is a rapist)
@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman@sickburnbro >RWers cannot point out an equivalent of Get Out for "right wing" art And somehow you jump to "leftists have way more creativity"? >Get Out managed to generate discussion on its themes and meanings even though it's (on the surface) explicitly leftists not "even though", EXPLICITLY BECAUSE. This is 99% of the reason it got made in the first place how do you not factor this in? Also it's not "on the surface" just because some jew critic says it criticizes a different set of white people. Braindead take.
>the problem with RWers and media is recent This is just because you look back on stuff from 20 years ago and think it is RW. Right-wing, as in pushing the envelope right-wing, mass art has been virtually impossible since the French Revolution. >because RWers have gotten too nichilist and cope with old media and products that are not even from their culture headcanon
@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman@sickburnbro The point, for the millionth time, is that Fight Club was NOT a right-wing movie in it's time, because the right-wing has NEVER been able to make envelope-pushing mass media like the left did. But it is NOW because the left considers it toxic masculinity.
Erin Brokhovic I just picked at random because it's some gay shit the left made to empower women or whatever, while muddying the waters of reality. You don't need to watch the movie to understand this.
If a critical analysis is being made of a film with the goal of reifying the analysts pre-conceived notions, I think it's safe to say they have a positive outlook at the very least
My point is that there are examples of right wing movies/media, the problem is that RWers don't care or only a minimum part care, and those same movies end up being discussed more in leftists circles. They don't care because they think every piece of media made in the west is leftist propaganda (true for some things, but not for everything).
@RikaDerufu@Jens_Rasmussen@doctorsex@WoodshopHandman@sickburnbro You'd know about that I guess I had the sense that you watch a lot of left retarded cinephile youtube or something like this for a while now. That shit is gay and retarded as fuck and you lack any propaganda awareness. Very obviously dirtbag left style types trying to deradicalize and signal "we're cool too!" instead of the mainstream left producing movies in hollywood these days. It couldn't get made now, despite what these idiots are saying.
The point is that a place being hot doesn't mean it is a good candidate for solar. If your neighbor is venting their whole house A/C nearby, for instance.
@sickburnbro@EdBoatConnoisseur@Jens_Rasmussen yes it does. Don't know many people that have 70° C (158F) on their roof tho. I think it shows that it's still worth it and not as dramatic as it sounds
For my system in the peak of summer, I can get a 10-15% performance gain by putting the sprinkler to hit the array (I needed to water the apple trees anyway)