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1. Embed this notice
   Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 09:32:46 JST Nathan Schneider

   #Socialcoop members, what if we replaced Loomio with a Mastodon bot?

   • Embed this notice
     Kathe Todd-Brown (ktoddbrown@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 09:36:50 JST Kathe Todd-Brown

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr Can you tell me more about what that would look like? I'm not a huge fan of Loomio but it servers a very different function then mastodon

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 09:39:09 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Kathe Todd-Brown

     @ktoddbrown for instance, a bot that could be used to:

     - manage proposal voting
     - announce votes and outcomes
     - keep track of committees
     - facilitate conflict resolution

     I actually really like Loomio, but I think it would be best to integrate Mastodon governance within Mastodon.

   • Embed this notice
     Kathe Todd-Brown (ktoddbrown@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 09:42:44 JST Kathe Todd-Brown

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I guess I don't see the process that this would support. In my experience tech supports and enforces good process. If you don't know the process or have that dielled in that it doesn't matter what tech you pull in.

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 09:46:35 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Kathe Todd-Brown

     @ktoddbrown the hope is that the bot would facilitate process, just as Loomio does. But perhaps more interactively.

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 09:48:12 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Amy Zhang

     @axz have you been doing PolicyKit in Mastodon yet?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:05:38 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Kathe Todd-Brown

     @ktoddbrown Maybe it could guide users through a process like this: https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Make_a_proposal

   • Embed this notice
     Melissa Santos (ansate@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:06:25 JST Melissa Santos

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr would it write to some kind of external blog or something so we can see debate and decisions all together?

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff Forcier (bitprophet@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:12:07 JST Jeff Forcier

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr Tentatively +1 on the idea, though (probably obviously) one would want to see what specific form it might take to be sure 🤔

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:16:44 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Melissa Santos

     @ansate I imagine it would operate through posts on Mastodon. Those would be its public records. Perhaps it could also write to the wiki.

   • Embed this notice
     Melissa Santos (ansate@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:18:59 JST Melissa Santos

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr i think the idea has promise! But between auto deleting posts, server weirdness, etc, feels like it would be important to capture things another way.

     Also it’s really hard to just read a mastodon conversation with tons of people

   • Embed this notice
     Joseph Andriano (josephandriano@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:47:32 JST Joseph Andriano

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I like this idea in theory. I often forget to check Loomio, and it would be nice to keep track of governance issues here.

     I think the main impediment to this would be the fact that Mastodon doesn’t do threaded discussions well. I feel like it would be unwieldy to keep up with a particular discussion that we may be interested in.

     I’m open to it, though, and would love to see a proof of concept.

     Another thought: is there any way to do a Loomio/Mastodon connection through RSS?

   • Embed this notice
     Erik Moeller (eloquence@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 10:55:08 JST Erik Moeller

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr

     Personally, I would advocate in favor of a rotating role to call people's attention to Loomio posts via #SocialCoop itself.

     I would prefer to use something like Discourse over Loomio -- I find Loomio needlessly convoluted in a bunch of ways -- but more than that, with any separate platform I think we have to find ways to direct our collective attention there.

   • Embed this notice
     Clayton Dewey (clayton@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:29:00 JST Clayton Dewey

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I like that idea. Move the discussion and voting to where the people are already at. Showcasing out democratic deliberations to the rest of the fediverse might inspire other instances to do the same.

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:49:30 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Joseph Andriano

     @JosephAndriano that seems like it would be an easy bot

   • Embed this notice
     Amy Zhang (axz@hci.social)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:51:29 JST Amy Zhang

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr no! We’ve been focusing on the new frontend. If you know of any good backend devs who would be interested in taking this on tho, lmk. I should have some funding.

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 11:51:29 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Erik Moeller
     • Clayton Dewey
     • Amy Zhang

     @axz

     Any interest, @clayton @eloquence ?

   • Embed this notice
     Erik Moeller (eloquence@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 13:39:51 JST Erik Moeller

     in reply to

     • Clayton Dewey
     • Amy Zhang

     @ntnsndr @axz @clayton

     That looks super interesting. If you have funding, the first person I would reach out to is https://hachyderm.io/@thisismissem - she is already working on trust & safety tooling for the fediverse, and may have ability to take on additional paid work.

   • Embed this notice
     Clayton Dewey (clayton@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 13:42:30 JST Clayton Dewey

     in reply to

     • Erik Moeller
     • Amy Zhang

     @ntnsndr @axz @eloquence that's out of my wheelhouse but I'll ask around.

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 14:16:39 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr why not work on a Loomio integration of some kind?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 02:05:54 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes

     @Matt_Noyes an option. But thinking about whether the extra tool is necessary.

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 02:39:28 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I have two concerns related to basic organizing principles: when a group is already doing something that aligns with your strategy and values, don't start a new project that competes, and we need to practice intercooperation at this level. Dissipation is the enemy of solidarity networks, right?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 02:50:30 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes

     @Matt_Noyes I really like Loomio, but I have consistently heard members say they find it hard to use an follow. I don't think values should have to be painful. And I think it is important to be a space of experimentation.

   • Embed this notice
     Alex Rodríguez (arod@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 03:10:47 JST Alex Rodríguez

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes

     @ntnsndr @Matt_Noyes maybe this points to a need for better onboarding and clarity about how we use Loomio? I am not convinced that the tool is the issue here tbh. I've seen Loomio work well for groups when there is a shared understanding of the protocols for using it. If anything the "drawback" to Loomio is its high degree of customizability, which can be a liability when groups don't have clear decision-making protocols or cla consistent culture of agreements.

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 06:39:10 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr Right, so why not play together with Loomio and see if we find/develop new tools together?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:02:53 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @shauna @Matt_Noyes @arod

     First: Yeah, tech is not the solution for anything! I agree that, practically, the most important issue for us is not tech but process and structure. I am very enthusiastic about the re-organizing work going on now.

     Second: I'm mostly just scratching my itch of a) wanting to learn how to build Mastodon bots because I like Mastodon, and b) being interested in governance tooling. I am not under any illusions that it would likely be as awesome as Loomio.

   • Embed this notice
     Shauna GM (shauna@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:02:54 JST Shauna GM

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @Matt_Noyes @arod @ntnsndr I've got to be on the upper end of social.coop members in knowledge of Loomio and interest in governance, but I still find myself largely ignoring social.coop's Loomio discussions. I only have so much cognitive energy for it, and there aren't quick, clear ways to plug in. It's not a tool issue for me, it's a how-does-this-group-use-the-tool issue. For those less familiar with Loomio, it might be both, but solving one doesn't necessarily solve the other.

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:02:55 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     • Alex Rodríguez

     @arod @ntnsndr 🙌

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:03:44 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @shauna @Matt_Noyes @arod And just as a reminder, I'm the person who has probably done more Loomio on-boarding writing than anyone in the co-op:) I would love some company!

     E.g.
     https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Social.coop_guide_to_Mastodon
     https://wiki.social.coop/wiki/Make_a_proposal

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:05:44 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @shauna @Matt_Noyes @arod Maybe a rephrasing of the question: Is there anything that our governance and community needs from a bot in addition to Loomio?

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:07:39 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @ntnsndr @shauna @arod Or even, ccould a bot help us integrate loomio and mastodon such that members can more easily participate in governance and community-building?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 07:25:29 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Social.coop
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod For sure. I could definitely try adding functionality to the @SocialCoop account to publish Loomio activity, for instance. How's that for a start?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 08:27:06 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Social.coop
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod @SocialCoop Okay, got a first draft of this running:)

     https://social.medlab.host/@govbot

     What else? Thoughts?

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 08:48:56 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Social.coop
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod @SocialCoop unfortunately the Loomio feed only has latest posts, not latest-discussed posts

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 10:00:59 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     • Social.coop
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @ntnsndr @shauna @arod @SocialCoop Is there a way to use RSS? I sometimes think that all we need is the ability to add links to the main mastodon interface, the way you can add links to your profile.

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 11:10:41 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Matt Noyes
     • Social.coop
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @Matt_Noyes @shauna @arod @SocialCoop yep I am harvesting the RSS from Loomio and structuring it

   • Embed this notice
     Matt Noyes (matt_noyes@social.coop)'s status on Monday, 20-Nov-2023 11:56:22 JST Matt Noyes

     in reply to

     • Social.coop
     • Shauna GM
     • Alex Rodríguez

     @ntnsndr @shauna @arod @SocialCoop This, I think, is what I was hoping for:

     "The ideal solution would be to integrate an RSS viewer into a Madison client, and set it to merge both timelines."

     But it seems impossible....?

     https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/uleyda/is_there_a_away_to_bring_rss_feed_to_mastodon/

   • Embed this notice
     Jeremy Rose (nornagon@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 23-Nov-2023 03:21:13 JST Jeremy Rose

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I don’t check loomio much, I’d prefer the discussions to be here!

   • Embed this notice
     Nathan Schneider (ntnsndr@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 23-Nov-2023 05:27:37 JST Nathan Schneider

     in reply to

     • Jeremy Rose

     @nornagon would you check Loomio more

     I recommend setting up email digests for Loomio. Super helpful, esp. if you are part of multiple groups.

   • Embed this notice
     Jeremy Rose (nornagon@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 23-Nov-2023 05:34:20 JST Jeremy Rose

     in reply to

     @ntnsndr I get those, but don’t read them :/