Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 19:18:09 JST SuperDicq

   Louis Rossmann released an app called "Grayjay" today, and he deceivingly calls his app "open source" in his video talking about the app.
   
   The license he is actually using for his app is nonfree, noncommercial and has many restrictions. It is nothing more than "source available", which is not even a real term or movement at best.
   
   Louis' organisation Futo gives grants to many free software projects like Peertube, GIMP and Blender and also the Free Software Foundation itself.
   
   I am very disappointed in this decision because especially someone like Louis knows better than this and should really set a better example.

   • Sexy Moon, Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and LukeAlmighty 🇨🇿 like this.
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:23:20 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • fops (plushie arc) (Chaotic Stupid)

     @chfour@wetdry.world He licensed it under some custom bullshit they just made up. https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master/LICENSE
     
     I doubt this is even fully enforceable.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     fops (plushie arc) (Chaotic Stupid) (chfour@wetdry.world)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:23:21 JST fops (plushie arc) (Chaotic Stupid)

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq wait what did he license it under

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:25:07 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq Colour me surprised.
     
     Such kind of proprietary behavior is unfortunately typical of "open source" supporters, plus it seems that they can't even decide if it means source-available or the 10 definitions from the "OSI" (or have even heard of such).
     
     It seems that the natural meaning is the one that's understood in practice, but only in the most proprietary of ways.
     
     
     This is why I'm proud to be a free software supporter - no free software supporter who knows that free means freedom will ever call software that they know is proprietary, free software.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:29:30 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq Hmm, I was going to read that to see if such license is even valid under copyright or contract law, but it seems I can't unless I run proprietary JavaScript.
     
     But I guess the license is extremely proprietary if the terms are valid or not, so there's no need for me to actually read it.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:41:19 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     Louis claims that this is needed to protect the users from unethical forks of the software. Like let's say someone forks the software and adds spyware or other malicious features to it.
     
     The intention here by Louis is good, but the situation he has created here is absolutely not.
     
     People forking software to add malware to it is a big issue, but copyright is not the right tool to solve this issue.
     
     If you try to solve these issues using copyright you're enforcing your power as the copyright holder over your users and this is undemocratic and unjust.
     
     Instead we should try and solve these issues politically. We should organize together to remove malware like spyware and DRM from our apps through legislation forbidding companies from using these technologies in the first place.
     
     Copyright is not a political tool and as someone who is a lobbyist and has been involved in the free software movement, Louis should know better.

     Sexy Moon, Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Alexandre Oliva like this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:43:31 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com It's hosted on their Gitlab, there is no proprietary javascript on this page, it is free software.
     
     However, here is the raw file: https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/raw/master/LICENSE

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:55:41 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kumicota
     @kumicota @SuperDicq great game btw
   • Embed this notice
     kumicota (kumicota@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:55:42 JST kumicota

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq barotrauma is also a game with a similar license. It's a source available paid game and paid software.
     
     While I don't have any personal opnion of source-available paid software like that. From reading the CONTRIBUTING and LICENSE of grayjay, it seems way more draconian than the one on barotrauma. As they don't accept contributions to the core and other parts of it
     
     
     https://github.com/Regalis11/Barotrauma
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:59:55 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • kumicota

     @kumicota@bae.st @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com Even lawyers often write unreasonable copyright licenses that do not hold up in court.
     
     It's usually just intimidation, you can make up whatever bullshit rules you want if you can always make your opponent settle before ever going to court.

     翠星石 and Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     kumicota (kumicota@bae.st)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 20:59:56 JST kumicota

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @SuperDicq I think it's valid. FUTO is a org financed by a billionaire(Rossman isn't shy of saying that) so I wouldn't be surprised if it was approved beforehand by a team lawyers
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 21:05:45 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • kumicota

     @kumicota@bae.st My personal opinion is that every software license that is not a free software license as defined by the FSF is draconian.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 21:11:43 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • kumicota

     @kumicota@bae.st But to be completely honest I think in the case of a video game this is not super important.
     
     However this project that Louis is making seems to be a very ambitious project that, if it were free software, could actually help in tearing down the big video streaming monopolies of the modern internet.
     
     So I'm very sad to see them go in this direction. I my rant on here convinces other people and most importantly (indirectly) Louis as well that he is making a mistake. So hopefully the license will get changed to something that makes more sense some time soon.

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 21:40:21 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq >there is no proprietary javascript on this page, it is free software.
     I actually read the license on gitlab's JavaScript and it's only licensed under MIT expat *after* it has been compiled/assembled etc.
     
     Although that may not be the intention, as a result, aside from the few files with copyright headers, all of the source code lacks copyright notices and therefore is proprietary software.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 21:45:50 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com You are correct, most companies are not very clear with their copyright headers and things like that, but I'm pretty sure their intention is that the entire sourcecode of Gitlab, excluding the enterprise edition, is MIT expat.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 22:47:13 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx

     @cnx@larkspur.one If you could I would appreciate if you could ask him on Matrix again, but this time about the GrayJay app.
     
     The more people tell him this the more likely he is going to change his mind.

   • Embed this notice
     McSinyx (cnx@larkspur.one)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 22:47:15 JST McSinyx

     in reply to

     Yea @SuperDicq, he did the same false advertisement for the FUTO S2T app and when I asked about it on Matrix he dodged the open-washing issue multiple times and instead directing attention to the license was temporary and they’re planning to improve it. Ugh twas really frustrating and as if he couldn’t comprehend he’s doing exactly what the New York governor did to his right to repair bill.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 22:59:42 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • crafti

     @crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe Yeah but on the other hand he also uses GNU/Linux on all his computers and often talks about Richard Stallman in his rant videos.

   • Embed this notice
     crafti (crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Oct-2023 22:59:44 JST crafti

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq Louis' projects so far are dubious...
     
     I get weird vibes from Louis... Like, he'd look like the kinda guy using Brave or something. He also calls out the prior GrapheneOS main dev... He doesn't look the kinda guy who would be supporting FOSS..
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 02:39:38 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Noel :neofox_verified:

     @noel@federation.network Either he's super uninformed about what "open source" actually means (which I doubt) or he is guilty of "open washing".
     
     There are no other possibilities.

   • Embed this notice
     Noel :neofox_verified: (noel@federation.network)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 02:39:39 JST Noel :neofox_verified:

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo Hm. Let's see how this develops. I don't like the taste of that.

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 02:43:06 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq Forking and adding malware isn't a thing you solve with abusing copyright but with trademark (forcing them to use another name) and/or moral rights.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 02:53:29 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @SuperDicq And in GrayJay case it's a big problem, because if it ever ends up with malware or a dependency on malware (very likely, it's a mobile app), it becomes unfixable for anyone but the original copyright holders.
     Same thing for security flaws.
     
     Just use a libre stack like OBS and Owncast.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 03:05:31 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • xianc78

     @xianc78@gameliberty.club Just because the name of the license is "temporary" doesn't mean it actually is.
     
     If you want an actual temporary license you will need to add a clause to your license that says something like "this license will apply until {{date}}" and then refer to a new license that will apply after that date.
     
     If this was actually the case I wouldn't make such a big fuss about it and I would just wait until that date.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     xianc78@gameliberty.club's status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 03:05:32 JST xianc78

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq It says that the license is temporary. Maybe he will release it under an actual FOSS license later.

     https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master/LICENSE?ref_type=heads

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 06:38:40 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx

     @cnx@larkspur.one The link you posted unfortunately does not contain any relevant information to this thread. It shows some messages 11 and 12 november 2022 for me.

   • Embed this notice
     McSinyx (cnx@larkspur.one)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 06:38:41 JST McSinyx

     in reply to

     Meh @SuperDicq, he’s aware of this thread (edit: ugh now the log is gone, not sure if tis glitch in the matrix.org or twas a permission change) and his takeaway was that twas low key slander instead of people voicing he’d been repeatedly wrong :ym_sigh: Dude shits on the movement that practically power the interwebs and still refuses to understand why people are angry :neocat_facepalm:

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 06:43:24 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx

     @cnx@larkspur.one If you could find some other way to show it to me I would appreciate it.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 07:11:10 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • \\
     • fops (plushie arc) (Chaotic Stupid)

     @slash@cdrom.tokyo @chfour@wetdry.world The worst part of license is section 4.
     We may suspend, terminate or vary the terms of this license and any access to the code at any time, without notice, for any reason or no reason, in respect of any licensee, group of licensees or all licensees including as may be applicable any sub-licensees.I would never trust someone that wants to have this kind of power over me.

     Sexy Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     \\ (slash@cdrom.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 07:11:11 JST \\

     in reply to

     • fops (plushie arc) (Chaotic Stupid)

     @SuperDicq @chfour what’ really funny is the ‘license’ doesn’t explicitly grant the right to modify, so anyone who actually does go along with this is then putting themselves at risk by doing so given how emphatically the first big lays out you only get the rights expressly given in the license.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:08:20 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx

     @cnx@larkspur.one Yes I understand his stance but I disagree. I think this particular thing is more important than Linux vs GNU/Linux, which is just about a name.
     
     In this case he is actually misrepresenting the amount of freedom the users get with the program by misusing the term "open source" which has a clear definition to most people and this obviously does not qualify.

   • Embed this notice
     McSinyx (cnx@larkspur.one)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:08:21 JST McSinyx

     in reply to

     Unfortunately, no, @SuperDicq, it seems that there was a permission change when/after I typed my response. IIRC Louis Rossmann said he will post a video this week about the matter but I can see your last few messages and suppose thou are clear of his stance.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:10:25 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx

     @cnx@larkspur.one I don't see him say anything about making a video about this topic in the matrix room. Did he tell you that in a private message or somewhere else?
     
     Being the topic of a Rossmann video sounds exciting.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:35:30 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx

     @cnx@larkspur.one I really like the work he does lobbying for right to repair and such, but maybe he should just stay in his lane and keep doing that.
     
     But when it comes to ethical software development he is probably out of place. Calling this software "open source" is not an opinion, it is clearly wrong.
     
     Literally every definition from the OSI, the FSF, the Debian project, Software Freedom Conservancy, the Wikipedia Foundation, the actual Wikipedia article on Open Source Licenses, the European Union as a whole and everyone else qualified to talk about this disagrees with Louis' definition of "open source".

   • Embed this notice
     McSinyx (cnx@larkspur.one)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 08:35:31 JST McSinyx

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq, it was in that same room when the history was still public, something along the line of a rant on purists. I wouldn’t expect that to help his public image among FLOSS developers and activists though. I mean the guy is entitled to his opinion, I just used to hope that he could be a leading/convincing figure on right to repair on both hardware and software sides 🥶

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 09:48:23 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • autism :verified:
     @jeff @SuperDicq Sadly it's fried software, not free software, and even then re-licensing isn't really much of a thing (read the MIT for example, you have to keep the license text intact).
   • Embed this notice
     autism :verified: (jeff@misinformation.wikileaks2.org)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 09:48:24 JST autism :verified:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @SuperDicq someone should fork this, rebrand it and dual license it APGL3 and FUTA, slowly rewriting it with non dangerous code.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 10:48:24 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @SuperDicq
     Bern convention Article 6b introducing then is short enough:
     > Independent of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to the said work, which would be prejudicial to the author's honor or reputation
     
     Also note that in many countries those rights are inalienable, so even a corporation cannot get it assigned to themselves as part of employment contract like they usually do with copyright.
     
     >> trademark (forcing them to use another name)
     > how effective is this?
     
     I've often seen trademark used against adding ads/tracking in software or around it (see GIMP and SourceForge for example), but also just modifications which upstream disapproves with (or even any non-pre-approved modification, see anything from Mozilla).
     Do note that they could just change the branding to get away with it though.
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 10:48:25 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @SuperDicq > moral rights.
     what is this?
     > trademark (forcing them to use another name)
     how effective is this?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 15:49:58 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Johnny Peligro

     @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @mischievoustomato@5dollah.click Do note that they could just change the branding to get away with it though.This is the right way to solve the issue. If someone would make a fork of Louis' app that has malware in it it will not have the same branding, so the reputation of Louis will not be affected.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 15:57:37 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • kumicota
     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@5dollah.click @kumicota@bae.st Louis thinks his project is open source and he is paying his developers so he thinks that he is currently treating open source developers well with this license.
     
     But his project isn't open source, so he's not actually doing that.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 15:57:38 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • kumicota
     @kumicota @SuperDicq > Another thing is that he criticizes a lot companies, like Bethesda, MS and Google, freeloading open-source devs, while he's doing the same as it's a paid app that wouldn't even give a free version for people who contribute to it
     
     IIRC he said that the app will just work even if you don't pay?
   • Embed this notice
     kumicota (kumicota@bae.st)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 15:57:39 JST kumicota

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq
     I totally agree with you. The more you read about it the more you see that grayjay is probably gonna fail or have extremely high chances to.
     
     They could go to routes like Mozilla who has one of the most protective OSS licenses that they allows them to even remove a compiled version from source if it wasn't done by them instead of the proprietary one from gray.
     
     A few of problems that I have with grayjay is the way it's presented to developers, like how they don't wanna anyone contributing to the core(when the app lacks things like PiP) and say will refuse any MR for it.
     
     Another thing is that he criticizes a lot companies, like Bethesda, MS and Google, freeloading open-source devs, while he's doing the same as it's a paid app that wouldn't even give a free version for people who contribute to it
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 15:59:19 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@5dollah.click As I said before Rossmann's approach uses the wrong tool for the job. Other than political activism against malware he could've instead chosen to trademark the branding of his similar to what Mozilla does to avoid people hurting his reputation by making malicious forks.
     
     You should not use copyright law to enforce your morals. It's like trying to apply screws using a hammer.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 15:59:20 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq > Instead we should try and solve these issues politically. We should organize together to remove malware like spyware and DRM from our apps through legislation forbidding companies from using these technologies in the first place.
     good luck bro, hope you achieve this in your lifetime
     
     being pragmatic, Rossmann's aproach is *the* correct approach to this otherwise it gets fucked
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 16:18:37 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Gianmarco Gargiulo

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Yeah exactly, and the fluke "ethical software" movement was also not the first to try this either.
     
     The oldest example of a situation like this that I can remember was the original JSON license that said "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil." in it.
     
     While they probably had good intentions writing this license, the copyright holder would now have the ability to sue anyone using it that they deem evil.

   • Embed this notice
     Gianmarco Gargiulo (gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 16:18:38 JST Gianmarco Gargiulo

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq it's more or less on the same level of "ethical software" where they want to back off potential bad actors but the license is not the right place for it.

     MondoBizarrro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 16:21:23 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Gianmarco Gargiulo

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Also the original license of the Linux kernel was a non-commercial one.
     
     Linux would not be where it is today if the FSF had not convinced Linus Torvalds to release his kernel under the GPLv2 instead that does allow commercial usage.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 16:24:27 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • McSinyx
     • Samanera v0.2

     @samanera@blob.cat @cnx@larkspur.one Yeah but when I point out that he did something wrong and that he is spreading misinformation he says "I don't care, this does not matter to me" instead of taking responsibility.

   • Embed this notice
     Samanera v0.2 (samanera@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 16:24:29 JST Samanera v0.2

     in reply to

     • McSinyx
     @SuperDicq @cnx to be fair he never claims he’s an expert and also to do your own research
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 21:16:36 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kumicota
     • Johnny Peligro
     @kumicota @mischievoustomato @SuperDicq I thought FUTO was supposed to be an actual open source company so if they are gonna produce non-opensource stuff and argue about the definition, then I'm not interested in what they're doing anymore.
   • Embed this notice
     kumicota (kumicota@bae.st)'s status on Thursday, 19-Oct-2023 21:16:37 JST kumicota

     in reply to

     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @SuperDicq
     The problem isn't Louis, even if he says for people to not trust mouth to mouth agreements or to trust him. I believe he's doing his best and he will follow what he said to his grave.
     
     The problem is that he's a FUTO employee and while I hope it doesn't happen, life is a bitch and something could happen to him that he would need to leave internet.
     
     When this happen, things can change for worse{like it happened many times before), so having an open source license like agpl, Mozilla one and others more protective, would be better than that proprietary one
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2023 22:34:28 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.gamesremember left-pad?Yes, I do. I found the reasons for the developer doing what they did very petty and stupid. It was a circus of shit caused mostly by the NPM repository working the way it does and allowing stuff like this to happen to in the first place.
     Remember all the other times that a fully open source developer tried to defend their work, and it was taken from them?If you say things like "taken from them" you clearly do not understand free (and open source) software development.
     
     Nothing ever gets taken from anyone. Copyright isn't property. Using words like this to describe this situation is on the same level as record labels saying online sharing is "theft" or "piracy". It is propaganda.
     
     Defending your work from being integrated into proprietary software is done using copyleft licenses such as the GPL. This works very well in the real world.
     Sure, its not FOSS, but it is open sourceNo, it is not "open source" by any acceptable mainstream definition of "open source". I recommend you read the definition of "open source" by the OSI or the Wikipedia article as a start.
     and thats a layer of trust no corp will ever give.What layer of trust? Clearly Louis does not trust us at all, or he would've not chosen such a restrictive license.
     If you dont take steps to protect your work, the world will take it from you, resell it, then punish you for daring say you helped.First of all nobody can take anything away from you unless they break into your house and steal your hard drive, making copies is not stealing.
     
     And with reselling it is true that other people can resell derivative works based on your works. That's part of the freedom of free software. Why is that a bad thing? Other people deserve to make money too, right?
     
     You also say "they will punish you for daring say you helped". I don't understand what you mean with this. If you want to be credited for your work there are plenty of free and open source software licenses that require attribution.

   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Friday, 03-Nov-2023 22:34:29 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq remember left-pad? Remember all the other times that a fully open source developer tried to defend their work, and it was taken from them?

     Nah man, hes taking steps to make sure he doesnt get fisted like the others.
     Sure, its not FOSS, but it is open source, and thats a layer of trust no corp will ever give.

     If you dont take steps to protect your work, the world will take it from you, resell it, then punish you for daring say you helped.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 00:59:06 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games i bet you think that one guy starving and letting his life fall to pieces in the name of open source software deserved to be cut out of his own lifes work and thrown on the street.I'm sorry but left-pad is a npm package that contains 12 lines of code. This is not someone's livelihood.

   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 00:59:07 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq

     "What layer of trust? Clearly Louis does not trust us at all, or he would've not chosen such a restrictive license."

     You didn't understand what i meant

     "Yes, I do. I found the reasons for the developer doing what they did very petty and stupid."

     Yeah, and i bet you think that one guy starving and letting his life fall to pieces in the name of open source software deserved to be cut out of his own lifes work and thrown on the street.
     (1/2)

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:11:22 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games Copyleft does not prevent corps from taking what you made, corrupting itCopyleft in practice prevents corps from taking what you made and corrupting it.
     
     It does this by forcing corps to always release it under the same license as well. And it does this by giving all the potential users or community the freedom to remove any potential malware a corp might add to it.
     
     You can not corrupt a copyleft program.
     and using it for their own profit.Why does it matter to me as a developer what other parties use my software for? You can use my software for profit or not, it does not affect me.
     This is how inventors starve. This is WHY inventors starve.Everything I make is free software and I am not starving? I do not consider myself an inventor either.
     
     Inventions are covered by patent law, not by copyright law. These are completely different things and you shouldn't confuse between these two.

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:11:23 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq
     Copyleft does not prevent corps from taking what you made, corrupting it, and using it for their own profit.

     "Why is that a bad thing? Other people deserve to make money too, right?"

     This is how inventors starve. This is WHY inventors starve.

     The simple fact is, no one wants a thumb in the eye for making something for the world.

     Your statements are hyperbolic at best, misleading lies at worst

   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:13:41 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     @SuperDicq @xorowl the eternal problem that it takes smart people a lot of money and time to invent something new and it takes an established businessman five minutes to copy it
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:14:22 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • XorOwl

     @icedquinn@blob.cat @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games As I said again this is a patent issue, not a software license issue. Software licenses are copyright.

   • Embed this notice
     Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:14:42 JST Pleroma-tan

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     @xorowl @SuperDicq >copyleft does not prevent others from taking it
     
     :awesome: and that's where you don't use Twitter for your sources in your research. Go look up copyleft on Wikipedia.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:15:21 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     @SuperDicq @xorowl i mean thats why inventors starve. that paradox.
     
     i also use copyleft software but they're kinda orthogonal to one another as problems
   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:15:43 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     • Pleroma-tan

     @kirby @SuperDicq Yeah,and you gonna pay for every OSS developer's legal fees when corps ignore that?

     Pleroma-tan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:15:43 JST Pleroma-tan

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     @xorowl @SuperDicq faggooooottttttt
     
     Go look up legal cases for the gpl
   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:15:55 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     • iced depresso

     @SuperDicq @icedquinn so, "this is an issue of not having money"
     because patents cost money
     lawyers to defend you cost money

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:15:55 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • XorOwl

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games @icedquinn@blob.cat I totally agree with you that the current patent law is a lot more in favor of the big guys instead of the small guys.
     
     This does not mean you should try and fix the issue using copyright instead. Wrong tool for the job.

   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:16:42 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     @SuperDicq @xorowl law in general is, yes.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:16:48 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     • Pleroma-tan

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games @kirby@lab.nyanide.com There are many organizations that will help you and pay to defend your copylefted free software for you, like the FSF.

     Pleroma-tan likes this.
     Pleroma-tan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:50:13 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq @kirby@lab.nyanide.com yes, beg more for help, so you can continue to be referred to as a leech while you starve on the streets

     Pleroma-tan likes this.
     Pleroma-tan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:50:13 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     • Pleroma-tan

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games @kirby@lab.nyanide.com Wait so you consider nonprofit organizations that actually help YOU out fighting against the big corporations as "begging" and "leeching"?

     Pleroma-tan likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 01:51:03 JST Pleroma-tan

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     @SuperDicq @xorowl yay i've been defederated now i'm going to see a very messy thread.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 02:28:39 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl
     • Pleroma-tan

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games @kirby@lab.nyanide.com I'm not trying to twist your words.
     
     I believe that everyone deserves to eat as well, that's not what is controversial.
     
     I believe that publishing your software as free software does not impact your ability to eat. You can make money with free software. Restrictive copyright licenses are not a necessity for making money.

     翠星石 and Pleroma-tan like this.
   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 02:28:41 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq @kirby@lab.nyanide.com this isn't a good-faith discussion anymore, you're twisting half of what i say to make me seem more outrageous than i am.

     People deserve to eat, and protect their own well being

     Pleroma-tan repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 02:36:23 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • XorOwl

     @xorowl@fog.highspirits.games I want free and open source software development to be lucrative just as much as you do.
     
     But you CAN NOT make open source development lucrative by not making it open source! It will simply not be open source development anymore, that's my point.
     
     Don't you see the paradox with this so called solution? With your "self defense" you're destroying the thing you want to protect.

   • Embed this notice
     XorOwl (xorowl@fog.highspirits.games)'s status on Saturday, 04-Nov-2023 02:36:24 JST XorOwl

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq
     "I believe that publishing your software as free software does not impact your ability to eat. "

     Then you aren't paying attention to the world around you man.

     I'm tired of hearing about open source devs starving and having their packages taken from them when they ask for money.
     i'm tired of hyperbolic black and white binary screeching of people who think that if you don't do everything the right way you're evil.

     Evil exists, and this aint it. This is self defense

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Jan-2024 01:54:26 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Hyolobrika

     @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net Of course there are varying degrees of bad, but anything that is bad is still bad.

   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Saturday, 27-Jan-2024 01:54:29 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • kumicota
     That's very black and white. Don't you think licenses can be more or less draconian?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Jan-2024 01:55:39 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Hyolobrika

     @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net The name does not mean anything, the license is only really temporary if the license itself mentions an exact date of when it expires, which it does not.
     
     Until the license is changed I do not see myself using this app.

   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Saturday, 27-Jan-2024 01:55:42 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • kumicota

     So hopefully the license will get changed to something that makes more sense some time soon.

     I mean, it is called the FUTO Temporary License.