Notices by Folker (folkerschamel@mastodon.social)

@mmasnick.bsky.social

Well, I'm just relaying what your colleagues of Bluesky Social PBC are saying, see my previous post - argue with them instead of me.

Or with the people of the Mississippi Free Press, who said that the action of #bluesky is a "significant blow" to them https://www.mississippifreepress.org/editors-note-bluesky-blocks-mississippi-ips-citing-states-age-verification-law-free-speech-and-privacy-concerns/.

But yes, personally I like like the decentralized world of #mastodon and #activitypub without a single corporation controlling the infrastructure and data most users are dependent on.

@ricci @mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

I didn't present it binary - I deliberately chose the words "completely centralized" versus "practically centralized" versus "decentralized".

And while of course centralization is not binary, and there are many discussions about details and about the future, we should not muddle the water and forget the overall big picture that for all practical purposes today bluesky is centralized and mastodon is decentralized.

@ricci @mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

To add, I think the credible exit argument falls apart in reality anyway. See reality check Mississippi blocking: Many people on bluesky seem to not like the decision, but at the same time I have seen nobody acting on it and moving to services that make a different decision.

BTW, using a different analysis only 7% of the fediverse seem to be known to block #threads, down from 9% last year, see also https://mastodon.social/@folkerschamel/111612927848322776.

@ricci @mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

Yes, agreed that fediblock is a text book example how decentralization works well in practice.

Well, then #bluesky credible exit is the same as decentralization support of #atproto: cool tech, nice theory, clever marketing trick, but largely irrelevant in reality. Btw, #twitter has a credible exit too: just export your data and import it into something new.😉

PS: any chance of an explanation of
https://mastodon.social/@folkerschamel/115184281756139935 ?

@mmasnick @ricci @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

It's more than "fair enough" - you were spreading untrue things about other people's posts to your followers multiple times now, not only about my post but also posts of others like @Gargron, without ever sending out a correction.

Yes, of course "mastodon gmbh" is centralized. But this doesn't invalidate anything I said in my post or make it misleading.

@ricci @mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

But even if all of #threads would be part of the #fediverse and make the fediverse practically centralized, it wouldn't change the the factual situation that
a) #mastodon is #decentralized,
b) #bluesky as being controlled by a single company is completely centralized, and
c) #atmosphere as being dominated by #bluesky is practically centralized.

@mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social
@ricci

No, I'm not saying that #atmosphere is controlled by a single company.

I'm just pointing out that right now #atmosphere is centralized in practice in the sense that it consists basically exclusively of infrastructure controlled by #bluesky PBC.

Do I understand you currectly that you are comparing #bluesky to #meta?

@mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

Hey Rob @ricci

Since I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to respond with another biting meme, pointing out again that *enabling* is not the same as *having*, maybe noting that the latest version of https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/ shows even more centralization than a few days ago, and reiterating https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/115129998343856795 - I won't do that 😉 .... this time I leave it to you to responde to @mmasnick.bsky.social 😉

@mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

Hey Rob @ricci

Since I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to respond with another biting meme reiterating https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/115129998343856795, pointing out again that *enabling* is not the same as *having*, maybe noting that the latest version of https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/ shows even more centralization than a few days ago, I won't do that 😉 .... this time I leave it to you to responde to @mmasnick.bsky.social 😉

@mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

"enable" actual decentralization ... "lie about" ... here we are again ... Since I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to respond with another biting meme reiterating https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/115129998343856795, probably showing that the latest version of https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/ even shows more centralization .... this time I leave it to you to responde 😉

@mmasnick @mastodonmigration @mmasnick.bsky.social

Nonsense.

Of course, when considering #threads as a part of the #fediverse, then it's not #decentralized.

But this does not change the fact that #mastodon is #decentralized. As is the #fediverse excluding #threads. As show nicely by the diagram.

And of course all this does not change the fact that #bluesky is controlled by a single company. And that #atmosphere is centralized. As also shown nicely with the diagram.

@mmasnick.bsky.social

That's a deflection again. Nobody doubts that technically both #activitypub and #atproto support decentralization.

But the point is that *in practice* basically all #bluesky users are concentrated on infrastructure of a single company under US jurisdiction, while #mastodon users are distributed over many servers in many jurisdictions all over the world.

The consequences can be seen with Mississippi.

https://mastodon.social/@ikuturso/115124768664434731

https://mastodon.social/@mastodonmigration@mastodon.online/115125132980066617

@cwebber I think it's simple: posts on #bluesky and #mastodon are intentionally public by design. If you want to have private communication, you can use #signal.

@Gargron What do you think about the idea of #mastadon servers supporting #atproto in addition to #activitypub?

By the way, thank you very much for your work and vision! #fediverse

@tokyo_0 @smallpatatas @Gargron @tay

Yes, this seems to be a widely spread misunderstanding. On any public social network - including not only #mastodon, but also #twitter, #threads etc. - you always can easily see posts of blocked people.

@smallpatatas @tokyo_0 @Gargron @tay

It's not misleading. They are two different things. @Gargron is correct about delivery, while authorized fetch protects against traveling via third servers. Obviously combining both provides most security (which is a misleading term here).

Of course, many people may risk havinbg a false sense of security, also in case of full defederation. Never forget: Everything you post on a public social network is, well, public.

@pieselpriemel

That's exactly the point: No need to block 100m by hand. Each user can simply block the domain. Then their data won't be delivered to #meta / #threads. No admin level domain blocking needed.

@androcat @plasma4045

Such personal attacks (as well as misinformation) which are completely unnecessary and which unfortunately I've seen multiple times from the #fedipact crowd are in my view one of the reasons of the toxicity of social media, and it seems it has spilled over even to #mastodon.

There are already people on #threads who want to be protected from the #mastodon world, and I can understand them more and more.

What about making this a better place instead?

@tokyo_0 @Gargron @tay

No, in contrary, @Gargron clarified that also using user level domain blocks "stops your posts from being delivered to or fetched by Threads", which obviously prevents "#threads users to see and interact with your content".

(Of course not protecting against screenshots, data cached before you blocked, or not using authorized fetch.)

That's exactly a perfect sample for the importance of basing all these #threads, #meta, and #fediblock discussion on technical reality.

@tokyo_0 @Gargron @tay

Well, this post https://tech.lgbt/@tay/111587118907388940 was literally worried specifically about #threads "which is the problem most have with the whole situation. we don't want our data fed into the Meta hellscape machinery".

And @Gargron was answering with a technical clarification that this is not the case with user level domain blocks.