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1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:23:48 JST Paul Cantrell

   RE: https://mastodon.social/@sjvn/116828624577961731

   There's a spiel about job listings I regularly give to students who are going on the tech job market (an utterly miserable and exploitative experience, the way we treat new entrants to the field…seriously…ugh). The students never quite believe me when I give it, but I give it anyway — and I'll now be using this job listing as yet another piece of evidence.

   The upshot of the spiel is “job listings usually don't mean what they say, no matter how clearly they say it, and you can’t really read them literally.”

   1/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:28:30 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     A grab of of things that usually go in that spiel:

     - Most job listings are formed using a fill-in-the-blank process (like Mad Libs), without any concern for whether the parts make sense together (like Mad Libs)

     - That fill-in-the-blank process is frequently done in part or in whole by someone in HR who isn’t even on the team that’s doing the hiring, doesn’t understand the tech, and doesn’t know the position or the team’s needs

     2/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:31:45 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     - “Years of experience” often does not literally mean years of experience; it means something about what internal rank or salary track the position will be slotted into, and thus how the company will treat the person who’s hiring into this position

     3/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:31:51 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     - Mention of a specific technology often does •not• mean they’ll only consider someone who already knows that technology, but instead may mean things like “HR asked the team and they said they use this language,” or “the CEO heard about this and wants it in our job listings,” or “we heard we can pay developers who using this language less money,” or “well we had to put SOMETHING”

     4/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:34:17 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     - For all the reasons above, “job requirements” are frequent not requirements at all; they’re the company sending out •vibes• about the position — either to attract candidates, or (at least as likely) to please internal stakeholders with no consideration for the actual effect on candidates

     - So don’t feel constrained by the published job description

     5/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:37:27 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     - But there •are• real requirements

     - usually unstated

     - that often even the interviewers doing the hiring aren’t aware they’re applying

     - and they’re frequently social / shibboleth / ingroup / identity requirements

     - specifically sexist, agist, and racist

     - but also internal company churn / fomo / turf war stuff

     - all of which has nothing to do with your worth as a human being

     6/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:40:08 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     - The only ways through / around all this that I’m aware of involve (1) making real connections with real human beings whenever possible, not just job listings, (2) continuing to try and try and try (ugh), and (3) believing, deeply believing, that the hiring process is 95% not about you — which is a cruel truth, but also a good reminder not to internalize the way others treat you.

     7/

   • Embed this notice
     aburka 🫣 (aburka@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:41:26 JST aburka 🫣

     in reply to

     @inthehands it's even worse now because HR runs the listing through AI to "make it sound more professional" or something with no attempt to verify that it didn't change the meaning. Recently caught them doing this at my work with JDs that had actually been written by engineering, but got corrupted by clueless HR on the way to LinkedIn

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:47:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     A cruelty of all this is that it rewards the people who are already the most privileged, the most likely to believe in their own ability / worth regardless of external cues, perhaps the most likely to overestimate themselves.

     When a job says “5 years of FancyFramework experience,” I guarantee you that there is a lopsided distribution of identity traits to those people who are applying anyway despite only using FancyFramework for 2-3 years. And I guarantee you some of those people who don’t meet the “requirements” will be under real consideration for the hire.

     It’s a self-selection process that amplifies any inequality a person can internalize.

     8/

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:47:24 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     At least one person says the original QP is satire, which I can easily believe:

     https://hellinger.wtf/@holger/116829396745060640

     The real evidence here is not “ha, this one company did a stupid, look at the screenshot;” it’s that, satire or not, when people see that listing, the common reaction is “oh, ha, yeah, that totally happens.” (I remember a listing that required 5 years of Swift experience just 1 year after the language was released.)

     I do wish our hiring processes were more humane. But they’re not really for humans, are they?

     /end

   • Embed this notice
     Duckbilled Plattypus. (pattykimura@beige.party)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:51:05 JST Duckbilled Plattypus.

     in reply to

     @inthehands Lol. I worked in HR. I always argued against stupid, disconnected, irrelevant position requirements. Most are BS. I used myself as an example before going around the room to ask my colleagues to explain why the field their degree(s) were in were relevant. My degree is in film. I negotiated union contracts. Lol.

   • Embed this notice
     David Smith (catfish_man@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:51:13 JST David Smith

     in reply to

     @inthehands I have *literally* seen a recruiter add made up requirements because “the list of requirements was too short”

   • Embed this notice
     Henryk Plötz (henryk@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:51:26 JST Henryk Plötz

     in reply to

     @inthehands So, basically, it's a Mood Board for hiring.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:55:28 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Elias Mårtenson

     @loke

     “But what is a 10x developer?”

     “Oh, we know one when we see one in an interview”

     “But how?”

     “Just, you know…vibes. Fit.”

     “So people who look and talk like you?”

     “Now you’re getting it!”

   • Embed this notice
     Elias Mårtenson (loke@functional.cafe)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:55:29 JST Elias Mårtenson

     in reply to

     @inthehands No problem. If you're a 10x developer, you're qualified.

   • Embed this notice
     jimkennedy (jimkennedy@mas.to)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:59:33 JST jimkennedy

     in reply to

     @inthehands I think this sense of entitlement of disregarding job specs you don't meet comes with age. Back in the day I would scan job requirements looking for a reason to rule myself out and thus not apply. Now I see 'five years of FancyFramework' and apply anyway. Let them reject me - I'm not going to do it for them.

     The only objective of applying is to secure the interview.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 04:59:33 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • jimkennedy

     @jimkennedy

     It does, but it also comes with (for example) social privilege. The gender divide even among my students about who needs to hear this is pretty stark; the men are far more likely to already be fudging the “year of experience” and just need the validation.

   • Embed this notice
     Greg Whitehead (grwster@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 05:01:42 JST Greg Whitehead

     in reply to

     @inthehands Great thread! Another thing that happens is that some jobs, for legal reasons, are required to be advertised even if you have already identified the person you want to hire, and so there’s a game of writing a job description that fits this person and no other. I hate both sides of the hiring process

   • Embed this notice
     cratermoon (cratermoon@zirk.us)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 05:09:31 JST cratermoon

     in reply to

     @inthehands this is a real posting I saw not long ago

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 05:09:44 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • cratermoon

     @cratermoon amazing!!

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:10:16 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Jack Coates 🐀
     • Duckbilled Plattypus.

     @puercomal @pattykimura

     You’d probably find this essay of mine relevant:

     https://innig.net/teaching/liberal-arts-manifesto

   • Embed this notice
     Jack Coates 🐀 (puercomal@sfba.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:10:17 JST Jack Coates 🐀

     in reply to

     • Duckbilled Plattypus.

     @pattykimura @inthehands absolutely! My degree is in English, http://monkeynoodle.org/2018/08/25/english-degree-tech-career/ and my role is not one that rewards form training http://monkeynoodle.org/2024/12/28/where-do-product-managers-come-from/ — but getting access to good entry level people becomes impossible once HR gets big enough to really control hiring

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:11:03 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • toldtheworld

     @toldtheworld

     There are people all over fighting this good fight, and I appreciate all of you

   • Embed this notice
     toldtheworld (toldtheworld@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:11:04 JST toldtheworld

     in reply to

     @inthehands I'm glad to say I would have disappointed your expectations in every job description I have posted, as I pay attention to the entire post, have it reviewed by peers of the position and peers in management, and have the language evaluated for inclusivity (no mention of education or years of work, etc.).
     Now that I'm looking for a job, though, I realize how rare that is, as well as how many posts welcome applicants of all backgrounds but then deny you bc "looking for ppl like us"

   • Embed this notice
     Donald Ball (donaldball@triangletoot.party)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:11:33 JST Donald Ball

     in reply to

     @inthehands Also – even in the time before llms, a solid idk 20% of job postings were either zombies, resume bait, or pro forma because a candidate was already chosen. It’s even worse now with all the scams and with employers thinking they hold all the cards.

     When you apply and are summarily rejected, or are ghosted – do NOT take it personally. There’s literally nothing you could have done differently to get a better outcome.

   • Embed this notice
     Greg Whitehead (grwster@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:20:49 JST Greg Whitehead

     in reply to

     • cratermoon

     @cratermoon @inthehands "person who is not detail-oriented seeks person who is"

   • Embed this notice
     Morten (drgroftehauge@sigmoid.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:21:22 JST Morten

     in reply to

     @inthehands And apply to bad job postings! The worse the job posting, the greater your chances of landing the job.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:21:31 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Duckbilled Plattypus.
     • Shannon Clark
     • Cavyherd

     @pattykimura @cavyherd @Rycaut

     I have a similar little speech I give about the assorted educations of great developers I’ve worked with — and the punchline is that one of the best graphic designers I’ve ever worked with had a computer science degree.

     Majors are just a way to organize an education. Not careers, not identities, not brain types, not really even specific subsets of education.

     You all might appreciate this if you haven’t already seen it: https://innig.net/teaching/liberal-arts-manifesto

   • Embed this notice
     Duckbilled Plattypus. (pattykimura@beige.party)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:21:32 JST Duckbilled Plattypus.

     in reply to

     • Shannon Clark
     • Cavyherd

     @cavyherd @Rycaut @inthehands

     My late Dad was unusually brilliant, with an undiagnosed HSAM memory, he encouraged his children to major in the humanities or social sciences precisely because it taught critical thinking skills applicable to all of life's circumstances. If you knew how to think critically about your own and others' beliefs, you can solve a myriad of new problems and know when you can't.

   • Embed this notice
     Shannon Clark (rycaut@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:21:33 JST Shannon Clark

     in reply to

     • Duckbilled Plattypus.

     @pattykimura @inthehands I seriously tell people that the best technologists I’ve known have not had CS degrees of any form. Most have had Philosophy degrees (some another social science).

     Combined with technical skills the combination means they can think deeply about complex issues. Usually can also communicate well and evaluate the edge cases and moral questions a given technology raises

     But they have also usually just been rock solid developers (though rarely stay individual contributors)

   • Embed this notice
     Cavyherd (cavyherd@wandering.shop)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:21:33 JST Cavyherd

     in reply to

     • Duckbilled Plattypus.
     • Shannon Clark

     @Rycaut @pattykimura @inthehands

     I've noticed this pattern, too. Something about "learning how to think about thinking...."

     Which is hilarious, because Philosophy has a reputation for being one of those quintessentially "useless" degrees.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:23:53 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • GhostOnTheHalfShell

     @GhostOnTheHalfShell

     It is sometimes the case that there’s a great team hiring and a terrible HR dept who are reasonably well isolated from them except in job listings. But it’s definitely a red flag.

   • Embed this notice
     GhostOnTheHalfShell (ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:23:55 JST GhostOnTheHalfShell

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     This is a classic of HR. Also, when I see this or when I used to see these sorts of things in the past over other technologies, I knew immediately this was a company to lay down and avoid.

     This kind of stupidity will be everywhere in the company, and if you have a taste for milking that kind of organization because those opportunities are there go ahead, but most people would rather gouge their own eyes out

   • Embed this notice
     animoné (animone@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:25:10 JST animoné

     in reply to

     @inthehands I had always been lead to believe generally the opposite. "Never bother applying if you don't 100% match the requirements," "A rejection means you're a failure," and so on. The time job hunting after university was the most soul-sucking time of my life that left me with years of severe depression and self-doubt I still carry around.

     If only someone had lead me towards "job adverts are stupid"..

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 07:25:10 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • animoné

     @animone

     I try! I try! But of course this whole process is •designed• to grind down new applicants, because employers love a more demoralize, submissive, and compliant workforce who feel they have fewer options.

   • Embed this notice
     Joe Pallas (jpallas@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 08:01:36 JST Joe Pallas

     in reply to

     @inthehands I have been hired 7 times in my career. The number of times I did not have a personal connection to someone on the inside (sometimes the hiring manager themselves) was zero.

     One side effect is that I’ve internalized the idea that “I don’t interview well,” because I don’t otherwise get offers for jobs I think I’m qualified for. And twice that I know of I was being rejected and got reconsidered because of the personal connection.

   • Embed this notice
     Bill the Lizard (lizardbill@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 08:12:03 JST Bill the Lizard

     in reply to

     @inthehands Too bad "Claude Delusion" was already taken.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 08:20:45 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Joe Pallas

     @jpallas I think most people’s careers asymptotically approach this state as they go on. I don’t think I’ve been hired for a job or even a contract without some kind of personal connection or referral in this century.

   • Embed this notice
     The 21st Mast in September (mast0d0nphan@beige.party)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 08:24:19 JST The 21st Mast in September

     in reply to

     • Duckbilled Plattypus.
     • Shannon Clark
     • Cavyherd

     @inthehands @pattykimura @cavyherd @Rycaut "I don’t think that increasing the size of the STEM labor pool by shoving marginalized kids into it ends marginalization. I think it lowers labor costs for employers who are sick of paying people so much money to write software."

     SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

   • Embed this notice
     Chris P. :trek_ds9_sisko:#1️⃣ (b4ux1t3@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 29-Jun-2026 19:29:28 JST Chris P. :trek_ds9_sisko:#1️⃣

     in reply to

     @inthehands this number 3 is the Crux. I think.

     It’s hard to wrap your head around, even for me, even this late into the game.

   • Embed this notice
     3Jane Tessier Ashpool (3janeta@beige.party)'s status on Thursday, 02-Jul-2026 07:37:17 JST 3Jane Tessier Ashpool

     in reply to

     @inthehands this seems apt here