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1. Embed this notice
   Daniel Gultsch (daniel@gultsch.social)'s status on Saturday, 20-Dec-2025 18:51:27 JST Daniel Gultsch

   As a community, we often ask ourselves how to attract more users to #XMPP. Yet the real tragedy is that people would rather build something entirely new (loosely based on email or #ActivityPub) than consider XMPP. Need end-to-end encryption by default? If compatibility with existing XMPP clients is a secondary concern, you can implement it in your own solution while still benefiting from our two decades of experience in instant messaging.

   • Embed this notice
     David Wilson (daviwil@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 20-Dec-2025 18:51:25 JST David Wilson

     in reply to

     @daniel Conversations is quite nice these days, especially with customized builds like Cheogram

   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Gultsch (daniel@gultsch.social)'s status on Saturday, 20-Dec-2025 18:51:26 JST Daniel Gultsch

     in reply to

     I consider this a failure on our part but I don’t really know what to do about it. Most arguments against #XMPP don’t hold if you’re building from scratch anyway:

     • #Conversations_im looks very outdated: OK, but you are developing your own clients anyway.

     • XMPP doesn’t have an SDK: Neither does your #ActivityPub or email stack

     • OMEMO is insecure and I would prefer #MLS: Yes, let’s work on that together and you’ll still benefit from XMPP’s 100+ solved IM problems.

   • Embed this notice
     morph (morph@morphnet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:15 JST morph

     in reply to

     • 🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ

     @barbapulpe
     Woah ... I did not know that this bridge exists! 😳

   • Embed this notice
     🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ (barbapulpe@gayfr.social)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:16 JST 🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Goffi
     • Marcel Waldvogel
     • XMPP Bridge

     @debacle @marcel @daniel @Goffi @cheogram

     Hi, for XMPP/AP Bridge you can simply use it by following the bot account @xmpp_bridge from a fediverse account (conversely from XMPP). Try it out if you want!

     Or you can instantiate your own, source code is here: https://github.com/Barbapulpe/xmpp-ap-bridge

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:18 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • Goffi
     • Marcel Waldvogel
     • 🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ

     @marcel @daniel

     ActivityPub: #libervia by @Goffi and #XMPP-ap-bridge by @barbapulpe.

     SMS: #cheogram by @cheogram, IIRC, and #sms4you, partially by me.

     Email: libervia, again, and cheogram, again. But I believe, that there are more. Not sure.

   • Embed this notice
     Marcel Waldvogel (marcel@waldvogel.family)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:20 JST Marcel Waldvogel

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • Goffi

     @debacle @daniel @Goffi
     Cool! Pointers?

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:21 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • Goffi
     • Marcel Waldvogel

     @marcel @daniel

     There are already two gateways from #Jabber to ActivityPub, two for SMS, and probably many for email.

     @Goffi is working on bridges not breaking e2ee, AFAIK.

   • Embed this notice
     Marcel Waldvogel (marcel@waldvogel.family)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:23 JST Marcel Waldvogel

     in reply to

     • Debacle

     @debacle @daniel
     Ages ago, people created gateways between different transport protocols. Many application protocols even had/have explicit support for them.

     MLS (or OMEMO or …) messages could cross boundaries: Adressing one of my contacts by email, the other via Fediverse, the third on XMPP, the fourth by phone number, …

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:11:24 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     @daniel

     IMHO, the point of both Delta and the new ActivityPub based chat (does it have a name yet?) is prevalence, at least in a certain part of society.

     I remember, that Delta proponents said, that "you can reach everyone, who has an email address."

     Now it is: "You can reach everyone, who has a fediverse account."

     In the end, it is not that easy, e.g. because email users might not have autocrypt in their client, and it will take a while until there is #MLS in e.g. #mastodonEl.

   • Embed this notice
     morph (morph@morphnet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:12:52 JST morph

     in reply to

     • Ilias

     @ilias @daniel
     Square profile pictures rock! 🤘🏻

   • Embed this notice
     Ilias (ilias@discuss.systems)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:12:53 JST Ilias

     in reply to

     @daniel conversations outdated?? It's the client I like the most. It's the only mobile client that just works and has a greate UI. If people want something better they should be contributing...

   • Embed this notice
     morph (morph@morphnet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:35:16 JST morph

     in reply to

     • 🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ

     @barbapulpe 👍🏻

   • Embed this notice
     🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ (barbapulpe@gayfr.social)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Dec-2025 04:35:17 JST 🌈 Barbapulpe 😇 ᴹᵃˢᵗᵒᵈᵒⁿ

     in reply to

     • morph

     @morph
     Try it out, make it known... open to suggestions for improvement, too.

   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:20:54 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • pixelschubsi
     • Tris

     @daniel @pixelschubsi @tris I don't know much about Google, but in ActivityPub identity is an URI and it can't be used across multiple protocols. It can be linked to other identities, but this is not the same as single identity.

     For example, while working on my ActivityPub project, I have to use 3 additional communication protocols: Matrix and XMPP (for group chats and encrypted messages), and E-mail (for notifications). This is ridiculous! I want a single identity and a single application for everything.

   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Gultsch (daniel@gultsch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:20:55 JST Daniel Gultsch

     in reply to

     • silverpill
     • pixelschubsi
     • Tris

     @silverpill @pixelschubsi @tris you can have a single account (or as I phrased it 'identity and login credentials') across different protocols.
     For example your Google account works across multiple protocols. And even in the federated world we have several cases where email address == xmpp address.
     So to repeat myself: using the same identity is good. Doesn't mean you are locked into ActivityPub if you want to build instant messaging.

   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:00 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • pixelschubsi
     • Tris

     @daniel @pixelschubsi @tris The benefit is in having a single account for all types of online communication.

   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Gultsch (daniel@gultsch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:01 JST Daniel Gultsch

     in reply to

     • pixelschubsi
     • Tris

     @pixelschubsi @tris Yes, agreed. Tremendous value in reusing identities and login credentials. Big skepticism with regards to using AP as a protocol. One can probably kinda make it work… But why? What’s the benefit?

   • Embed this notice
     pixelschubsi (pixelschubsi@troet.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:03 JST pixelschubsi

     in reply to

     • Tris

     @daniel @tris I'm also genuinely surprised that people believe that ActivityPub, a protocol even named after its purpose, to publish activities, is a good protocol to pursue private instant messaging. The goals of those two couldn't be more detrimental.

     I do see a purpose of being able to reuse your "ActivityPub identities", which actually are just WebFinger identities. Maybe someone should specify how to discover XMPP accounts via WebFinger and push that as a solution for AP messaging?

   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Gultsch (daniel@gultsch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:04 JST Daniel Gultsch

     in reply to

     • Tris

     @tris there are three actively developed protocols for federated instant messaging (XMPP, Matrix, Deltachat). At least one of them is very open to new developers and new ideas and has a structure in place to collaboratively work on those ideas and bring various stake holders together. With no disrespect to that individual I don't see why there needs to be a forth protocol loosely based on ActivityPub.

   • Embed this notice
     Tris (tris@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:06 JST Tris

     in reply to

     @daniel Ah, fair, their work for E2EE Fedi looks interesting: https://github.com/fedi-e2ee/public-key-directory-specification

   • Embed this notice
     Daniel Gultsch (daniel@gultsch.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:07 JST Daniel Gultsch

     in reply to

     • Tris

     @tris two things: I already said in my follow up post that if someone wants to build their own clients on top of XMPP and prefers MLS over OMEMO, the XMPP community is very open to that. A protocol is much more than just the encryption. They would still benefit from all the other things XMPP has solved.

     A lot of what's in that blog post is ill-informed and bordering on disinformation and fear mongering.

   • Embed this notice
     Tris (tris@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 24-Dec-2025 01:21:08 JST Tris

     in reply to

     @daniel Someone have to solve https://soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against-xmppomemo/ issues first