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   ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:15:54 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

   i'm learning bazel

   so far my conclusion is that i would rather use cmake than bazel because cmake has a better user interface

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:16:09 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     you run `bazel build --help` and it directs you to open a webpage that does not contain the documentation for the fucking command line options

   • Embed this notice
     Andy Wingo (wingo@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:17:33 JST Andy Wingo

     in reply to

     @whitequark lmao, that is amazing

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:21:56 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     i'm not completely clear on it but it might be that there _isn't_ any single place where you can get a list of valid command line options for `bazel build`? the webpage just has recipes for various use cases, not a full reference

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:22:14 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Soblow Xaselgio :dragn_heart:

     @Soblow they work at google

   • Embed this notice
     Soblow Xaselgio :dragn_heart: (soblow@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:22:16 JST Soblow Xaselgio :dragn_heart:

     in reply to

     @whitequark How did they fail so miserably to have a UX worse than CMake?!!

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:22:35 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • J. "Henry" Waugh

     @jhwgh1968 so, i'm cross-compiling something to Wasm that was never built for Wasm before

   • Embed this notice
     J. "Henry" Waugh (jhwgh1968@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:22:36 JST J. "Henry" Waugh

     in reply to

     @whitequark you have my sympathy

     Bazel is the only build system I rage quit

     After 20 minutes of failing to understand how to *name a specific target to build* rather than "everything" despite having what seemed like a list of them from the config

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:27:18 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • mal3aby

     @mal3aby oh, thanks

   • Embed this notice
     mal3aby (mal3aby@mastodon.smears.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:27:26 JST mal3aby

     in reply to

     @whitequark There's this, though I'm not sure it helps very much?

     https://bazel.build/reference/command-line-reference?hl=en#build

   • Embed this notice
     James Widman (jameswidman@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:28:23 JST James Widman

     in reply to

     • Soblow Xaselgio :dragn_heart:

     @Soblow @whitequark google probably doesn't have an incentive to make it work nicely for people who don't work at google (which, if you're at google, then you have access to a lot of internal tooling & documentation, and i would bet that some of those tools/docs makes it easier to use/learn bazel)

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:28:23 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Soblow Xaselgio :dragn_heart:
     • James Widman

     @JamesWidman @Soblow yep https://mastodon.social/@whitequark/114983916717284860

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Vest (chrisvest@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:30:32 JST Chris Vest

     in reply to

     @whitequark what has the Catherine done to deserve this?

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:31:21 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Chris Vest

     @chrisvest i chose to do it of my own volition

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:33:17 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     okay this is the actually useful page https://bazel.build/docs/user-manual

     would have been good to, you know, have a link to it. they could've even printed *two* links! (gasp)

   • Embed this notice
     Volker Stolz (fm_volker@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:36:42 JST Volker Stolz

     in reply to

     @whitequark 🧌

   • Embed this notice
     James Widman (jameswidman@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:37:27 JST James Widman

     in reply to

     • Soblow Xaselgio :dragn_heart:

     @whitequark @Soblow it seems like bazel is so awkward outside of google that, if a project is built with bazel, then it probably also ought to ship with at least one justfile:

     https://github.com/casey/just

     ...with just-recipes defined for common tasks.

     maybe worth a bug report?

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:40:57 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • James Widman

     @JamesWidman weeell, i'm cross-compiling it to wasm

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:42:14 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     ive successfully cross-compiled a project i've never used before (mpact_cheriot) using a build system i've never used before (bazel) to wasm

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:53:39 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER

     @be i don't particularly mind that; i mean, i use nixos, same deal

   • Embed this notice
     EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER (be@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:53:41 JST EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER

     in reply to

     @whitequark I consider a build system that cannot function without containers and grabbing its own toolchains from who-knows-where fundamentally broken.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:58:10 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Stylus

     @stylus the problem with make is that it's a fine tool for what it is, but by lacking things like "knowing what cross-compilation is" it encourages people to produce absolute abominations. which i then end up cross-compiling. which makes me utterly despise people who do them

   • Embed this notice
     Stylus (stylus@social.afront.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 06:58:11 JST Stylus

     in reply to

     @whitequark that's OK, my cmake hot take is I'd rather read GNU make.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:00:58 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Stylus

     @stylus it's possible that you, personally, write good makefiles

     i applaud you in that case! it's just that i think make's design is too outmoded to be an option that respects other people's time, in 2025

   • Embed this notice
     Stylus (stylus@social.afront.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:00:59 JST Stylus

     in reply to

     @whitequark

     checks most recently edited Makefile

     CROSS_COMPILE ?= arm-none-eabi-
     CC = $(CROSS_COMPILE)gcc
     

     well s--- I feel seen right now

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:03:16 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Stylus

     @stylus meanwhile you could be a complete barbarian, but provided you don't use too many compiler-specific flags (in which case i just comment them out) with cmake porting is usually a matter of -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=.../wasm32-wasip1.cmake and fixing thev source code

   • Embed this notice
     Stylus (stylus@social.afront.org)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:03:17 JST Stylus

     in reply to

     @whitequark I didn't design the build system but needless to say the project (micropython) cares a lot about cross builds.

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:10:43 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     i like how there's a flag to make bazel show you which commands it's running (important for debugging linker errors) but all the commands are like

     emcc.sh @bazel-out/whatever/bullshit.params

     and not only does it not point to a real filesystem path, but i'm pretty sure it also deletes the directory where the .params file lives before reporting failure

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:12:52 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     correction: it doesn't delete it and the @ just means "root directory of the project"

   • Embed this notice
     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:13:40 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     gotta be sure

   • Embed this notice
     Lukas (karotte@chaos.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 07:23:08 JST Lukas

     in reply to

     @whitequark
     $ man ld
     -l namespec Toggles linking the archive or object file specified by namespec. Specifying the same namespec an even number of times is therefore equivalent to not specifying it at all.

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     Foone🏳️‍⚧️ (foone@digipres.club)'s status on Thursday, 07-Aug-2025 09:45:01 JST Foone🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @whitequark you gotta link to pthread once per thread your program will need