Mina
Does law speech kill community projects?
Over the last few days, there has been quite some discussion about the new terms of use (TOS) of mastodon.social.
Something similar happened months ago with Mozilla/Firefox.
Rules are essentially a good thing.
They aim to provide clarity and security to all involved parties.
Both projects failed miserably in their respective attempts.
People with extensive knowledge of the subject have debated endlessly
1/5
monarchist
I think you are not looking.
Notice the mainstream Fediverse sites are all little hugboxes where everyone shares the same opinions?
Mina
I have heard of some cases of misjudgement, but I, honestly, don't see a pattern there.
Obviously, for larger instances it is rather difficult to look into every case in detail, just in terms of workload.
Moderation is an important part of running a network. Errors occur, but I have yet to see a systematic discrimination of well willing users within the network.
monarchist
The constant defederation of nodes and banning of users.
Mina
Which censorship are you talking about?
monarchist
The censorship is killing the Fediverse.
pistolero
pistolero
Mina
Might be, but I do see lots of discussions with different opinions.
There are several pretty controversial topics, besides the general agreement that capitalism sucks and nazis are full of shit.
Nevertheless: Hugging and being nice and friendly to each other is, in principle, a good thing.
monarchist
@mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @eriner @na
I disagree. Discussion is important, false unity is not.
The "general agreement" is an echo chamber.
You just admitted why the censorship exists, of course.
monarchist
@mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @eriner @na
You can tell both mainstream and open sores social media have shat the bed when a free speech movement emerges:
Matt Hamilton
@monarchist @mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @na
> “open sores social media” ESL shit
> disgusting mentally ill troon from Berlin
Don’t CC me on gay, mentally ill freakshow threads Brett, or whoever you are.
pistolero
pistolero
Mina
Regarding the term "Nazi", I use it rather narrowly, not entirely restricted to the historic ones and their exact copies, but hardly to anybody with a nefarious agenda.
Trumo, e.g. is an authoritarian maniac, but not a nazi.
monarchist
@Scubbie @p @dcc @mina @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Canceldon uses "niceness" as a pretext for removing anyone who is off-narrative.
Niceness is a method, not a goal. The goal is to have a balanced discussion so we all learn something and ideally come to agree on some of the issues.
Scubbie
@p @dcc @mina @freepatriot @monarchist @na @eriner @sun
The Rise of Neo-Niceness is fake and gaey
pistolero
monarchist
@mina @p @dcc @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
I think he's Reagan part II, but I remember that people said all the same things (Hitler, authoritarian, fascist, racist, demon) about Reagan.
I am still mad at the Nazis for causing so many deaths of Germans (and others).
pistolero
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Most people live in this weird closed-circuit feedback loop where they know about the world from the same people who are doing the things that make it ugly.
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Much better than anything in the review queue today.
pistolero
di0nysius the patomskyite
pistolero
pistolero
Scubbie
@monarchist @p @dcc @mina @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Polite society has failed,nothing can be learned or agreed upon "Everyone must play nice",when the rules are set to herd you by those who make the rules,but live outside the rules.The Blackpill is there is no solution,just like a bunch of cows funneled thru pens and corrals in a single line encouraging forward movement preventing seeing what is ahead the abattoir awaits internet discussion solves nothing the Alpha and Omega is set
pistolero
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @Scubbie @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
I think we need goals, not rules.
I don't trust rules; they are meant to be worked around.
Even more, they get you thinking backward from effect to cause, and that messes your mind up.
It's the basis of Crowdism.
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
I need to upload that Blohole album (Gwar personnel, pop-hardcore).
pistolero
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @dsm @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Depends on the conditions for revocation.
It's like being on scholarship: they catch you with alcohol, the free ride goes away.
American citizenship is valuable.
di0nysius the patomskyite
pistolero
di0nysius the patomskyite
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @Scubbie @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Yes, but I see it a little differently (big surprise).
Rules are method-based, where we need goal-based thinking.
This is roughly analogous to what Jesus H and Buddha were on about.
Plato riffs on this too with his biological determinism visualized as destiny relayed by the gods.
monarchist
pistolero
di0nysius the patomskyite
pistolero
monarchist
@dsm @dcc @mina @p @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
Illegal status is a strict liability crime.
That is if we find you here and you are not legally entitled to be here, you go away.
Different from trying to prove murder.
monarchist
@p @dcc @mina @Scubbie @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
No, but it is now in queue.
Most people like symbolism. Numbers from journalists "seem" like hard, clear facts one can depend on.
Really it is the pursuit of crutches.
pistolero
pistolero
⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
monarchist
@toiletpaper @dcc @mina @p @freepatriot @na @eriner @sun
The problem is that if we say we oppose Nazis, then suddenly each person is going to try to find an argument that makes the people he wants to censor seem to be Nazis.
Same problem with speech codes.
Nietzschean Ekko Enjoyer
@mina @monarchist You won't see this message because there is a systematic discrimination of little old me because I told one (1) person that maybe harassing a mobile app developer for not hardcoding a list of disallowed-from-using-the-app instances is maybe a bad idea.
monarchist
@publicvoit @mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @eriner @na
Deflection. No, not all social media is an echo chamber, and claiming it is so to justify one echo chamber is dishonest.
Algorithms are not the sum total of the problem.
Notice the Fediverse numbers in freefall. Censorship killed the Fediverse.
Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:
@monarchist @mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @eriner @na Isn't all social network always some kind of echo chamber?
IMO it is important to keep away from algorithms that decide for you + expose yourself to other opinions by following people you're disagreeing with but do have good arguments.
monarchist
@publicvoit @mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @eriner @na
There's almost no variation in those points of view. This is what Mark Cuban was talking about going wrong on Bluesky. It's an echo chamber.
Karl Voit :emacs: :orgmode:
@monarchist @mina @freepatriot @p @sun @dcc @eriner @na From an extremist point of perspective, other point of views may seem to be very similar, yes.
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