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1. Embed this notice
   Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:19:19 JST Rich Felker

   Hot take: local system generated emails were very good UX and we should bring them back.

   • Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: and Phantasm like this.
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:, Paul Cantrell and feld repeated this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:21:46 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @dalias Like cron emails?
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:24:01 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     Example of very bad modern UX:

     (paraphrased) "Android has detected that these apps were not frequently used and removed all permissions for them." as an ephemeral notification with no way to go back and see history of what happened and no chance to undo unless you catch the notification without dismissing it.

     Obvious right way:

     Email from local system telling you a list of apps that are frequently unused and good candidates for revoking permission, with links that take you to a UI (but without themselves granting permission to that UI) to do it if you want.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:24:17 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan Yes.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:24:56 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • anna

     @navi Yeah, I don't mean they no longer exist in those contexts, just that newer things haven't copied the idiom but replaced it with much worse things like modal popups and ephemeral notifications.

   • Embed this notice
     anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:24:58 JST anna

     in reply to
     @dalias i still use cron local emails to this day, it's such a simple way to be notified of job failures, love it -- and i don't think any alternative even exists? (well, one that wouldn't require custom protocols and a phone app or smth)
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:28:22 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     Tangential general principle here:

     Notifications should never have unique information content themselves. If used, they should be highlighting information that exists in non-ephemeral form elsewhere on the basis that it might merit immediate attention. But dismissing/ignoring them should never be a "lossy" operation.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Joe Groff (joe@f.duriansoftware.com)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:37:45 JST Joe Groff

     in reply to

     @dalias "this modal dialog could have been an email"

     Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】:blobfoxgooglymlem: likes this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 00:37:55 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Joe Groff

     @joe 😂

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Bohn (docbohn@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 01:51:41 JST Chris Bohn

     in reply to

     @dalias Related: if a clickable element (including but not limited to notifications) occupies part of the screen that was occupied by a different clickable element within the last half-second, it should ignore having been clicked/swiped.

     Or, perhaps: ignore being clicked/swiped for at least the first half-second of occupying a particular part of the screen.

     Yes, I've dismissed severe weather notifications when I meant to dismiss an email. And other notifications that I couldn't see through my finger. But I've also clicked on too many wrong links on webpages that like to rearrange themselves.

   • Embed this notice
     groxx (groxx@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 02:51:15 JST groxx

     in reply to

     @dalias it is like actually insane that Android's "notification history" feature isn't advertised all over. It's super useful for this kind of thing.

     And toasts need to die in a fire.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 03:52:54 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Chris Bohn
     • eswillwalker

     @ELS @DocBohn Seriously. 20 years ago we had memes about grandma popping up while you were cybering on ICQ, and the dumbasses getting paid 6 figure salaries for UX still can't get this right.

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     eswillwalker (els@sfba.social)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 03:52:55 JST eswillwalker

     in reply to

     • Chris Bohn

     @DocBohn @dalias Yes, this is an annoying problem that will eventually cause a disaster when I accidentally click something dangerous.

     Rich Felker repeated this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 03:56:27 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Eli the Bearded

     @elithebearded It's only "unrelated" because it's not the norm to look there anymore and because every platform has decided to have it's own inbox it controls rather than letting you pick where to receive messages.

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     Eli the Bearded (elithebearded@fed.qaz.red)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 03:56:28 JST Eli the Bearded

     in reply to

     @dalias

     Yeah, no thanks. I'm old enough to have hosted my own email in the 1990s and I would not want my phone emailing me. Your "easy to find" assumes the email is very searchable and that you'd think to look in an unrelated system for messages.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 02:24:33 JST feld

     in reply to
     @dalias they never went away on FreeBSD...
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     jomo (jomo@mstdn.io)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 02:59:04 JST jomo

     in reply to

     @dalias I have dismissed so many notifications by accident on Android because my finger moved slightly more horizontally than vertically for the first 2 pixels when swiping up or down, but the entire thing is then parsed as swiping sideways.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 03:08:05 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     One thing I should clarify about this: "email" doesn't mean it has to go through a third party hosted or publicly addressible self-hosted mailbox. It can even be completely local delivery.

     The defining characteristic of being "email" is that it's sending to a common inbox that you can manage, transport, backup, search, etc. with software of your choice, not something locked within a particular app that the events were associated with, where you know the information is yours and immutable once it's delivered rather than at the whims of the producing process whether it will be available in the same unmodified form or at all in the future.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.