Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Autumn (autumn@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:40 JST Autumn

   just wow

   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:27 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     Only replying because this piqued my historical interest:
     
     Aztecs had routine ritual wars where they'd go to war with client states or rival states in order to kidnap people for the purpose of their religious sacrifices. They'd capture such people alive so they could engage in routine murderous rituals in order to keep the sun coming up another day. It's one of the reasons the Spanish had such an easy time conquering the continent, because everyone was like "Oh, your Christian God doesn't ask for human sacrifices? I'm in."
     
     Another good example would be the Assyrian Empire, which was famously brutal, based on their religious ideology which essentially made their king the instrument of the God of War and only doing their religious duty if they were brutally massacring outsiders -- not just defeating them, but being truly brutal such as forcing their enemies to grind the bones of their dead women and children and bragging about it on their carvings. In the end, the rest of Mesopotamia put their grudges aside for the sole purpose of wiping the Assyrians off the map. Some of the Assyrian actions would be considered genocide by the current definitions of such things, including mass killings. The destruction of Elam was absolutely brutal, and they relished their eradication of a people and their gods. While this is from the region from which Abrahamic religion would be codified, at this time they worshipped patron deities of particular cities and while the beginnings of that genealogy of faiths was starting to exist, it wasn't related to the Assyrians who were still engaged in the pre-axial age polytheistic fear-based religions.
     
     One hypothesized reason for the total erase of the Minoan civilization during the bronze age collapse despite their advanced culture and large range of influence was that they practiced human sacrifices and the various tribes which were expected to provide human sacrifices as tribute. Under this hypothesis, when the various factors caused the collapse of the Minoan civilization, the people who fled from there refused to keep learning to read and write because those were tools for atrocity and so the only relic of the civilization was an ancient story of the golden fleece.
     
     Two other examples would be ancient Egyptians who were already ancient at the time of the Assyrians, and the ancient Chinese (particularly the Shang dynasty), both of whom would bury entire retunes with their dead in the religious hopes that in the next life the powerful would have their servants.
     
     As I understand it, ancient Hindu kings would also engage in ritualized warfare which would kill people.
     
     Different religions had different purposes. Ancient religions were for dealing with the randomness and fear of a world ancient humanity had no tools to understand, and one of the ways of dealing with stress like that is trying to bargain with the primal powers of the world, sometimes by throwing a piece of meat to the tiger in the form of a human sacrifice.
     
     Later religions tried something new, because the Axial age had a requirement that humans deal with routinely interacting with people beyond dunbar's number, but abrahamic religions would of course still have those fear-based attributes because a historical Abraham would have lived during that age of fear-based religions.
     
     One final note about religions is that a religion without teeth dies, so some aspect of violence or sacrifice must remain. I like to use the example of Christianity in North Africa -- it was a soft and fluffy religion, and was wiped out by the spread of the Islamic caliphate as it spread from the Arabian Peninsula. Western Europe survived in part because it wasn't just soft and fluffy, it also had the strength of Nordic and Germanic warrior cultures and old pagan religions that are a bit spiky. Hindu religion had an incredibly powerful culture, but at its most decadent around the 9th century, India was conquered by the Muslims very successfully despite being outnumbered 100 to 1.
     KeepTakingTheSoma likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:28 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @chadtoshinakamoto @Autumn @rw
     
     > But also more ancient religions also do the same things.
     
     By all means, feel free to point out any examples you know of where non-Abrahamic religious scriptures or traditions have been cited as the pretext to instigate conflict and/or commit genocide (and specifically which were not responses to provocation by Abrahamic religious groups). I don't think you'll have any luck.
     
     > The gods of the old world are the same as gods of new, and they will always exact their dues.
     
     Holocausts (ie. wholly burnt offerings) are a form of sacrifice mandated by the Abrahamic God. There are no Pagan Gods I'm aware of who accept this form of sacrifice, nor who relish genocide, much less routinely demand either as a demonstration of religious virtue.
   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:29 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:

     @toiletpaper

     But also more ancient religions also do the same things. The gods of the old world are the same as gods of new, and they will always exact their dues.

     @Autumn @rw

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:30 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @chadtoshinakamoto @Autumn @rw
     
     The Abrahamic traditions are the only I know of whose scriptures are routinely (and reliably since their inception) quoted as justification for genocidal violence. It's less a religion and more a narcissistic mass delusional superstition bent on world domination.
   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:31 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:

     @toiletpaper

     And then understand world history enough to know that most religions have been co-opted for their own reasons.

     @Autumn @rw

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:32 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @chadtoshinakamoto @rw @Autumn
     
     It's important to appreciate the bastardised Platonism that serves as the backbone of Abrahamic theology.
   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:33 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     • therealCrusader :verified:

     @rw

     Gotcha. A simple "from the trinitarian perspective" would have sufficed but thanks for shitting on my Internet skills.

     @Autumn

   • Embed this notice
     therealCrusader :verified: (rw@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:34 JST therealCrusader :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     @chadtoshinakamoto
     Search engines are pretty accessible these days

     https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/comparison-chart-mormonism-and-christianity

     https://thethink.institute/articles/the-most-important-differences-between-mormonism-and-christianity

     https://mormonchurch.com/587/do-mormons-believe-jesus-and-satan-are-brothers

     They believe the blasphemy that Jesus is a created being, like angles (including Satan) and humans. This is not at all compatible with Christianity which teaches Jesus is part of the Trinity persons of the one God, and existed as God from the before all time.

     @Autumn

   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:35 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     • therealCrusader :verified:

     @rw

     Would love to see a reference on this.

     Of all of the denominations, the mormons seem to have the most put there "they believe in this statements" but I never see anyone back it up like people do with the Quran or the Talmud.

     @Autumn

   • Embed this notice
     Autumn (autumn@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:36 JST Autumn

     in reply to

     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     @rw @chadtoshinakamoto right. It's a cult

   • Embed this notice
     therealCrusader :verified: (rw@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:36 JST therealCrusader :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto their "Jesus" is a brother to Satan, and not God at all.
     IIRC

   • Embed this notice
     therealCrusader :verified: (rw@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:37 JST therealCrusader :verified:

     in reply to

     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     @chadtoshinakamoto @Autumn he is Mormon right, not actually Christian?

   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:38 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     @Autumn

     He had quite the public personal religious conversion after a bad run with drugs and infidelity. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

     But at the end of the day, he serves the purposes of CCA. When he's gone, there will be other Glenn Becks.

   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:39 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     @Autumn

     Dude's religious fervor has always been in service of the Christian Coalition of America to get political and advertising access.

     Fake and gay.

   • Embed this notice
     Autumn (autumn@noauthority.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:51:39 JST Autumn

     in reply to

     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     @chadtoshinakamoto everytime I see a post like this Epstein files come to mind
     just sayin'

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:52:55 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw
     
     Thanks for that. I can't dispute what you're saying off the top of my head without doing some further research of my own on the subjects in question.
     
     > In the end, the rest of Mesopotamia put their grudges aside for the sole purpose of wiping the Assyrians off the map.
     
     Let's hope the same happens to the Abrahamic religions. They've had 2,300 years (since the advent of the Torah) to get it right, and have utterly failed. It's well past time for them die in ignominy.
     
     > ...the only relic of the civilization was an ancient story of the golden fleece.
     
     I think you're mistaking the Minoans who lived on the island of Crete in the Mediterranean Sea, with the Colchians who lived in what is now Georgia on the coast of the Black Sea. The golden fleece is a mythical portrayal of what is in fact a Baltic gold panning method (wash sediment over a fleece, and the heavy gold particles get stuck in the wool) still in use today.
     
     Anyway, food for thought. I'll look into the rest of that and if it's still timely and relevant, perhaps offer my feedback.
     KeepTakingTheSoma likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 18:53:01 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw
     
     Oh. One last thing...
     
     > It's one of the reasons the Spanish had such an easy time conquering the continent, because everyone was like "Oh, your Christian God doesn't ask for human sacrifices? I'm in."
     
     I don't think that's really how it went down. At least not based on the eye witness accounts...
     
     https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20321
     KeepTakingTheSoma likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 21:07:42 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     You are correct, the minotaur and the golden fleece are different stories, I mixed them up. It was Theseus who brought down the minotaur, not Jason. Oops.
     KeepTakingTheSoma likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     KeepTakingTheSoma (keeptakingthesoma@spinster.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 21:12:25 JST KeepTakingTheSoma

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @toiletpaper @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw Its my understanding that the Minoans had a bull-worship element to their religion, hence the myth of the Minotaur. The Daedalus and Icarus story forms part of this as well, as does the Dionysus and Ariadne story.
     Lots of intertwining of mythos.
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 21:34:30 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • KeepTakingTheSoma
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @KeepTakingTheSoma @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw @sj_zero
     
     Also the most widely accepted reason for the collapse of Minoan civilisation was the eruption of mount Thera (modern Santorini) in ~1600 BCE. While Minoans did very occasionally conduct human sacrifice, it wasn't really a contributing factor to their demise. Particularly given that the practice was by no means unique to them.
     
     Interesting the eruption of Thera is likely an event which precipitated the Hyksos expulsion from Egypt which is featured in the Abrahamic Exodus myth, albeit wildly out of context. Moreover while those classical Mediterranean Pagan cultures did occasionally commit human sacrifice, by the Iron age it had widely fallen out of favour and was considered a barbaric practice. This however is not the case for Abrahamic religions such as Judaism where human sacrifice (herem) continues to be practised on a massive scale to this very day.
     
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herem_(war_or_property)
     KeepTakingTheSoma likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 21:36:20 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • KeepTakingTheSoma
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     One of the innovations in archaeology in the 19th century was considering that some parts of the old myths could be literally true in ways the fantastical elements could hide from our modernist eyes, so sites that were buried like the original city of Troy was found, and also the whole minoan civilization, and there are photos and videos showing the buildings with (what I assume are restored) artwork including bulls everywhere. Apparently their palaces were giant and maze-like for the day. In some ways myths can be like a multi-millennia old jpeg -- it has a lot of junk from the mythic compression, but still shows a real picture if you zoom out somewhat.
     
     It's one of the things that makes me say we can't just totally disregard myth, because it might not be telling us things that are in forms we understand directly, but it is often telling us things that are nonetheless true in different respects, and not just about the sites of ancient battles.
     KeepTakingTheSoma likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     KeepTakingTheSoma (keeptakingthesoma@spinster.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 21:39:10 JST KeepTakingTheSoma

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw @toiletpaper It's about the nature of truth. Something can be literally true or figuratively true. Myths are about figurative truths that may have grown from actual events, people or places.
     Humans like stories.
     I loved visiting the Minoan palace and seeing the pictures from my history textbook in real life, especially the lapis lazuli dolphin mural.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 21:40:49 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • KeepTakingTheSoma
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     In my lifetime I really want to get to Europe to see some of those sites myself.
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:20 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @toiletpaper @chadtoshinakamoto @Autumn @rw @sj_zero platonism thought
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:21 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @chadtoshinakamoto @Autumn @rw @sj_zero
     
     Give me one example of a war started by Gnostics and I'll concede that you have a point.
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:22 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @chadtoshinakamoto @Autumn @rw @sj_zero
     
     > ...you really don't like Abrahamic religions
     
     They're not religions. They're glorified superstitions.
     
     > Your hatred...
     
     Denouncing hatred and the intentional promotion of violent mass delusion can certainly come off that way. But you're dead wrong about it. Besides which, it's the ideology I opposed. People who subscribe to that are free to change their minds.
     
     > ...is a component of literally every belief set since the beginning of time.
     
     Nonsense.
   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:22 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:

     @toiletpaper

     Gnosticism is just as responsible for all the things you talk about. Gnosticism is core to most dogmas, and carry with it sacrifices in some way shape or form.

     Having a clear disdain for one sect while affording tepid apathy for anything other than "Abrahamic" reduces credibility.

     You are very learned, but based on how you deliver your arguments, I struggle to find you smart. I enjoyed some of the info, but the message failed to stick the landing.

     @Autumn @rw @sj_zero

   • Embed this notice
     Chadtoshi Nakamoto (chadtoshinakamoto@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:23 JST Chadtoshi Nakamoto

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:

     @toiletpaper

     tl;dr you really don't like Abrahamic religions

     Your hatred for this particular sect blinds you to the fact that the genocidal narcissistic nature you keep harping on is literally just "initiated vs uninitiated" and is a component of literally every belief set since the beginning of time. Secret handshake clubs is a form of social regulation. You are doing it right now, trying to demonstrate your initiatedness.

     What is it you believe in, then?

     @Autumn @rw @sj_zero

   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:24 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw
     
     I'm fine with broadening my horizons and learning more too. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your perspective and meant no disrespect to you personally. But as said also, it was really besides the point.
     
     Genocidal narcissistic superstition is intrinsically baked into Abrahamic religion, and consistently evident in it's application from it's inception right to the present day. There simply aren't any other supposed religious traditions which have that ignominious distinction. It's essentially hate speech wrapped in a transparently thin facade of hypocritical saccharine platitudes.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:25 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     "Whataboutery" for you is the main course for me. The history is more interesting than the specific theological debate.
     
     If my understanding of history is wrong, well that sucks I'll have to study harder.
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:26 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw
     
     I think a lot of this debate has veered off into a tangent of whataboutery quite distant from my original point.
     
     Abrahamic religion is uniquely narcissistic and genocidal in nature. That goes for Judajism, Christinanity and Islame alike. The primary reason for that is that the so-called sacred literature explicitly celebrates Abrahamic supremacy, exclusive claim to truth, and actively and vehemently vilifies any other system of belief, lifestyle or group. Moreover the 2,300 years of it's history right to the present day has repeatedly validated that fact. It's not exclusive to an institution but a feature which is reliably evident even in the common uninitiated reader/adherent.
     
     To the limited extent some minor sects of Abrahamic religion may not have this feature, it's arguably due to outside influences from Pagan traditions such as Platonism and Hermeticism which focus more on the esoteric aspects of theology rather than literal and fundamentalist interpretations of what in reality are simply a set of historically farcical and culturally atavistic fairy tales. Either that or people are just cherry picking their favourite saccharine platitudes and leaving the obviously repugnant elements aside, while turning a blind eye to the consequences of continuing to promote the underlying ideological tradition.
     
     Paganisms do not suffer from this mainly because there is no text mandating this sort of belief or behaviour. That doesn't mean some rulers of nation-states who were Pagan have not acted violently towards outsiders. Rather it was not done by the mandate of the religion, but instead for more mundane reasons such as acquisition of territory, material resources, and power, with religion acting merely as a ubiquitous cultural backdrop otherwise unassociated with that activity.
     
     I could go on and debunk much of the rest of what you've said too, such as discussing the Islameic institution of Jizya and it's role in religious conversions and so forth, but it really just amounts to getting sidetracked by whataboutery that distracts from the actual point I was making.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:27 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     I think a lot of what the author said can be true as well as what I said.
     
     Post
     
     I think you're smooshing together three ideas: ritualized warfare or sacrifice, spreading the influence of a particular religion through warfare, and spreading a particular religion to all the conquered peoples.
     
     For ritualized warfare or sacrifice, you don't necessarily need the victims to believe what you believe, you just need them to die or be conquered. "I don't need you to believe, I just need you to die."
     
     Back during bronze age Mesopotamia, every city has its own patron deity, and it it wasn't typical for religion to be spread through warfare per se.
     
     Even much later during the Islamic conquest around the 7-8th century, the Islamic caliphate was grown through warfare, but in fact Islam was a religion of the ruling class and because Muslims were exempt from certain taxes, and were given additional protections by the religion and so it was contrary to the interests of the ruling class to have the ruled follow the same God.
     
     So for this second thing, it's "I don't need you to believe, I just need to be your King who believes"
     
     It really wasn't until the axial age monotheistic religions and particularly much later Christendom that you wanted everyone to necessarily join your particular religion, likely because it stopped being a way to feel in control of a world that's too random to fully understand and became a social code for people to agree on and live by to reduce the stress of having to deal with a bunch of people you don't know in big civilizations. In the East, multiple religions often coexist because they each were compatible with one another and provided something important, such as imperial China balancing Daoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism, so monotheism isn't necessarily mandatory for the axial age social technologies to work, it just happened that a particular strain ended up highly successful in the West. Essentially, "I need you to believe what I believe, but you can believe other stuff too."
     
     Judaism really didn't want converts per se, but it did demand exclusivity for those who did believe. It was a regional religion for people of a certain bloodline. Some people did convert, but it was never an evangelical religion even being Abrahamic. Christianity's innovation was opening the faith to anyone who was willing to convert, combined with the enforced monotheism of Judaism (or to be more accurate, the precursor to Judaism from around 0 BC). The combination of the two did make it a lot more aggressive than the polytheistic faiths that preceded it.
     
     So in this final form which Islam also inherits, it's "I need you to believe what I believe, and nothing else"
   • Embed this notice
     ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡ (toiletpaper@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 13:03:28 JST ⚡Lord of Misrule⚡

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • therealCrusader :verified:
     • Chadtoshi Nakamoto
     @sj_zero @Autumn @chadtoshinakamoto @rw
     
     I found this essay by Dr. Shana Zaia (Assyriologist) whose doctoral research focused on the interplay between royal power and official religious cult in Assyria from c. 1000-600 BCE. The essay seems really on point with your mention of Assyria, and provides good context for the intersection of religion and conquest across the centuries of history concerned. In particular the essay starts with the following statement.
     
     "According to Neo-Assyrian royal ideology, the king had essentially two main duties: to conquer the lands around him and to use those conquests to enrich his core territories." However she goes on to explain "...this did not translate into forcing subjects to worship Aššur; actually, worshipping Aššur outside of his eponymous patron city of Assur was strongly discouraged, and conquered peoples were not required to give up their local cults either. Nor did the Assyrians wage war on other groups because of religious differences – there was no ‘holy war’ in the sense that one would understand it today. In fact, non-Assyrian deities often had important roles alongside native ones in Assyrian royal ideology; for instance, in the treaty corpus. ... Only twice in a 500-year period do Assyrian royal inscriptions record the purposeful destruction of cult images, and these were extreme cases."
     
     You can read the rest at your leisure.
     
     https://shanazaia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/zaia_the-cosmic-front_published-2024.pdf
     
     Suffice it to say that regarding Assyrian conquest as a mandatory religious activity is an over-simplification given the shared broad overlap in cultic practices and deities with neighbouring kingdoms such as Sumer, Babylon, Urartu, Akkad, Elam, Canaan, etc. It was instead an ideology specific to the Assyrian royalty exclusively. In particular the complete eradication of subject peoples along with their regional religious identities was expressly counter to the desired result of conquest, since the role of foreign deities in validating treaty negotiations was essential, and the care and reverence provided towards those foreign deities by the Assyrians themselves was omnipresent excepting only 2 instances during the entire period of their empire.
     
     This lecture by Dr. Zaia is also quite interesting and reiterates the non-existence of "holy-war" in this context.
     
     Assyrian Renaissance: The Religion of Assyria - Dr. Shana Zaia | Assyrian Cultural Foundation
     https://youtu.be/vC9AbeNEU1I