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Shadowman311 (shadowman311@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 18-Apr-2025 21:32:18 JST 
Shadowman311
Vaccines buy in large were one of the last normie beliefs I was holding onto (COVID "vax" aside obviously) but after seeing how aggressively shitlibs are spiraling after RFK mentioned he was looking into the causes of Autism, with most defaulting to "he's going to take away vaccines" with a snake like hiss in their voices, that belief is changing.
I'd say I'm a few years away from having kids and the like but when I do I don't know what I'm going to do about the vaccine question when it comes up. Generally anything Elizabeth Warren or Chuck Schumer supports is the exact opposite of what you should do to stay sane and healthy.- BowserNoodle ☦️ and AlabasterBrick ?☠️ like this.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 18-Apr-2025 21:41:10 JST 
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Shadowman311 As a guy with kids who is probably in a similar headspace to you on this, here's my qrd of what to look at:
>efficacy rates - full sheet docs suggest a lot of the vaccines are 💩. Influenza is the easiest to find this on but others are surprisingly bad.
>bacterial vaccines (e.g. tetanus) —these work well and are high efficacy in children and adults
>incentives — kickback for vaccination rates especially for newer vaccines with questionable harmful effects (gardasil)
>livestock — we use combination vaccines for humans but not animals. If you can find info from pre-COVID era it talks of harm to animals.
>Antibodies injections over vaccination — things like RSV have antibody injections that give a few months of coverage when baby is most vulnerable. These are good. -
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ChadleyDudebro (chadleydudebro@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 18-Apr-2025 22:05:13 JST 
ChadleyDudebro
If I had it to do over, my kids would not have any vaccinations.
Ask for a full list of ingredients to any vaccine "medical professionals" recommend to your child. And make the administering practitioners sign that list verifying the list is accurate. You will find them backing away quickly.AlabasterBrick ?☠️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 18-Apr-2025 22:14:38 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@PodunkPotato @Shadowman311 I thought that was a result of the cutter incident where hundreds of thousands were infected with polio from a bad vaccine (oopsie!) -
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PodunkPotato (podunkpotato@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 18-Apr-2025 22:14:39 JST 
PodunkPotato
>we use combination vaccines for humans but not animals.
MMR was so bad that the government created the NVICP specifically to exempt the manufacturers from liability. -
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PodunkPotato (podunkpotato@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:08:54 JST
PodunkPotato
No. They had a "bad batch" of MMR that stroked out about 1% of all babies born in 1979. Companies said they wouldn't manufacture if held liable. -
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PodunkPotato (podunkpotato@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:08:54 JST
PodunkPotato
Sorry, it was DPT, not MMR. Results remain unchanged. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:10:11 JST
That Would Be Telling
@PodunkPotato @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 I'd like a citation to "stroked out about 1% of all babies born in 1979," I think I would have noticed that or heard it from the pediatricians I knew at home, but I was busy in college by the end of that year.
The issue was the "w" whole cell pertussis (whooping cough) component from 1926, made from a bacteria so it was by definition a witch's brew with a zillion potential antigens vs. a virus with a very limited number (even herpes viruses "only" have about a hundred, but chickenpox is one of them).
But it significantly more effective than the replacement "a" acellular version which is also in the TDaP shot everyone should get every ten years, five if you have a bad enough wound, the T is for tetanus. With the obvious cost of higher rates of adverse effects.
Hmmm, per Wikipedia per the paper linked below (didn't read the paper but will if anyone wants. or, rather, look up what's in each vaccine), the 1996 DTaP vaccines for children use multiple pertussis antigens, up to five, and I've separately read just using one toxiod (these are modified/deactivated toxins) in TDaP is much less effective than two or more, and of course the whole cell version.
But there's no doubt the whole cell pertussis vaccines was relatively harsh, probably the most most harsh of all routine vaccines, (((lawyers))) were taking advantage of this, and a childhood vaccine injury quasi-court was set up to deal with the general set of issues. Otherwise manufacturers would have stopped marketing their vaccines in notoriously, from the founding sue-happy USA.
Will follow up on where BANTS will lead us in vaccine refusal (TL;DR: a hell of a lot of dead children).
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PodunkPotato (podunkpotato@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:10:13 JST
PodunkPotato
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/nat79_1.pdf
Table 1-46
200,000 adverse reactions sounds about right for 1%. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:10:13 JST
That Would Be Telling
@PodunkPotato @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 I think that's the wrong file?
Nothing related on page or table I-46, and vaccine, adverse, and reaction can't be found in it. It's the volume on natality (births)....
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JollyWizard (jollywizard@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:10:33 JST 
JollyWizard
@BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 Efficacy rates are junk across the board. They are measured using a lot of assumptions to sell products. Supply chain QA of all vaccines are poor to non-existent. They are full of literal monkey cancer and all sorts of crazy junk.
All injections and needling have inherent risk of negative side effects. In addition to risks from supply chain contamination, injection site infection and tong term physical side effects from poor injection techniques are commonly report in adults. All negative reactions from children are judged as babyish or immature reaction. Children will literally scream in pain or have days or a lifetime of negative reactions and the medical community gaslights.
None of the basic issues with needling and over-needling are seriously reported, studied, and considered to a degree that it makes it to the label or a GP's dialogue. Allergy development and autoimmunity have a mechanistic explanation that is amplified through injection but we are told that it's just a little shot, regardless of quantity.
Consider the analogy of root canals, which also break the blood barrier. Statistically, one is guarantee of further issues. You have a high risk of complications, repeat surgeries, and future health issues. It's been argued that you damage your protection layer so your resilience against future health complications is lowered.
The difference between root canals and vaccines is that the root canals are applied as a treatment, when you are already suffering and have demonstrated poor natural resistance. You wouldn't assume the associated risks without demonstrating criteria of need. I would argue no one actually needs root canals at all, but at least the source of recommendation is manifest physical symptoms. Vaccines are administered based on questionably quantified risks of future events and assumptions of worst case scenarios in personal resilience.
Tetanus is overly applied. The risk of tetanus is extremely low and the bacteria grows primarily in farm environments, basically cow shit contamination, not inherently to rust alone. Yet people without primary risk factor are rushed to shot as protocol. Again, efficacy rates are also a marketing lie.
Antibody injections are overly applied and don't claim to last.
You are better off living healthy than trying to supplement any element of your life with shots. A healthy person has no need from shots to handle disease. For an unhealthy or developing person, the risk of shots is not guaranteed to be lower than reported benefit.
Every shot your child receives is a risk to their short term and long term health. Same for adults, but your kids are still working on developing their protections against it.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:16:05 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@JollyWizard @Shadowman311 >Allergy development and autoimmunity have a mechanistic explanation that is amplified through injection
Yeah the adjuvants thing needs to be seriously reexamined.
>tetanus
I brought that up because it's the first bacterial one that came to mind. Real world risk of tetanus is very low for most suburban and urban people. Bacterial vaccines demonstrably do what they're claimed to do— chronic sinusitis can be cured with a pneumococcal vaccine in some adults, with results observed within days and lasting a decade. For children, chronic nasal inflammation and congestion will negatively affect jaw and face shape development, so there is a case to examine it as well. I am not a fan of the generalized vaccine schedule for children nor a believer that every recommended vaccine is worthwhile. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:17:17 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 Influenza immunization is a particularly special case:
Nothing, wild type virus or all vaccine attempts to date provide sterilizing immunity. You get that when the adaptive immune system recognizes one or more "conserved" parts of a virus, things that can't change or the virus won't virus.
Its genome is divided into a handful of segments; you, a pig, a duck, whatever can get two strains at once, some cells will get infected by both, and hybrid viruses will result. Thus is has mutation patterns you don't see in other viruses.
Even if we were to move entirely to the faster grow in bug cells in reactors Protein Sciences method instead of some companies still using eggs (or rather, the membrane cells of chicken eggs), it take a while to make a season's worth of vaccine. So you have to guess ahead of time which strains will be prevalent every six months (northern and southern hemisphere).
For the first reason, there's no point in trying for long term immunization, so one simple dose of surface proteins is all we try. (Seniors in the US get quadruple doses because their immune systems are getting less effective, and last time I checked there was one US licenced alternative with an adjuvant for them.)
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:19:38 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Shadowman311 The ironic thing about the flu "vaccine" is efficacy would likely be parabolic past a certain point—if everyone got it (and it worked), there would be a massive increased risk of flu from the strains circulating that weren't chosen for that year (that ignores potential negatives associated with incorrect guessing on the choice of strain as it relates to immune system memory). -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:21:26 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 Perhaps. I have anecdotal evidence and scientific reasoning (I know...) to support specific ones, like pneumococcal. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:21:27 JST 
Zardoz
All vaccines are a scam. Don‘y overthink it. One day people will talk about them the same way we talk about lobotomies .
remember that the inventor of the lobotomy won the Nobel Prize. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:42:51 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Shadowman311 Yeah the people who talk about "ZERO COVID" and apply similar beliefs to other viruses are seriously misunderstanding what's feasible.
>Flu
I wish COVID hadn't brain broken so many people. Flu can kill healthy adults and teens. Same with mono and a lot of other common infections. Sometimes people get critical hit one shot by stuff that most of us shrug off. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:42:52 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 And that, along with expense, is why we don't try so hard to give everyone a flue vaccine dose every year. You must always think about these things from an ecological viewpoint, different strains, virus families, etc. fighting it out in whatever domain. See how the 2020-2021 flu season basically didn't happen in the US.
And so we focus on the most vulnerable, the young (not sure how young until it's not such a big deal), the elderly, and the otherwise extra vulnerable. And it still kills a fair number of reasonably healthy adults, and hits others like a freight train as happened to me in very early adulthood once.
And we don't try super hard to get all of those; it's a "best effort" vs. EXTERMINATE!!! EXTERMINATE!!! That will have to wait on a sterilizing vaccine, assuming one is even possible.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:45:56 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@white_male @ThatWouldBeTelling @Shadowman311 There's a subreddit 🤓 for it. Hundreds of thousands of people share the Jeff & Jess Cliff belief. -
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white_male (white_male@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:45:57 JST 
white_male
@BowsacNoodle @ThatWouldBeTelling @Shadowman311 Zero covid? It that a new spin? I'm not keeping up with the cliffs on this anymore. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:53:32 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 Pneumococcal vaccine is for bacteria (Streptococcus pneumoniae). It works extremely well to the point that women often get yeast infections after taking it since their body suddenly wipes out a lot of native bacteria. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 00:53:33 JST
Zardoz
I am not convinced viral Pneumonia is real. Bacterial pneumonia definitely is real.
Even if “the science“ can show efficacy (big doubt) the risks are not being adequately explored and are even being hidden.
This means you cannot make informed consent for your helpless little baby. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 01:12:39 JST
Zardoz
Thank you for clarifying what we are talking about. I mostly focus on the childhood vax schedule, but I think you are also kind of making my point.
How does it make sense to wipe out your microbiome balance to the point of opportunistic infections as a preventative for pneumonia? The complexity of the hypersymbiosis of the microbiome should not be taken lightly.
Even if efficacy is proven, is the safety?
Do you have safety studies that have guided your opinion? The long-term, double-blind, placebo-controlled RCTs?
I am happy to change my mind if there is legit science behind it.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 01:31:50 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 My larger point was the efficacy of bacterial vaccines; if nothing else, it demonstrates that there are effective vaccines in production.
>How does it make sense to wipe out your microbiome balance to the point of opportunistic infections as a preventative for pneumonia
Someone I know had recurring sinus infections for three years. Everything reasonable was tried, including a lot of holistic medicine and some homeopathic treatments. It was likely an uncommon environmental trigger causing flare-ups leading to opportunistic infections. The decision was made to try the pneumococcal vaccine, and it successfully took care of the issue. When it comes to children, a lot of kids do have minor allergies to common environmental triggers that cause similar issues (the eternal snot nosed kid). There's a lot of good reasons to avoid chronic inflammation in general, and particularly of the ear nose and throat. Specifically it can contribute to malformation of the sinuses & airways & associated development of face, sleeping problems and the myriad of related complications, etc. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 02:41:27 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Shadowman311 >Do we have the money to give that to every baby, especially as you note, when it only works for a few months?
Definitely not, although the major hospitals and PPOs are all starting to offer it for newborns if the mother didn't get an RSV vaccination during pregnancy. The risk is substantially greater on newborns than even a 3-6 month old anyway, so I think the point is to cover the worst of it. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 02:41:28 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 "Antibodies injections over vaccination — things like RSV have antibody injections that give a few months of coverage when baby is most vulnerable. These are good."
Do we have the money to give that to every baby, especially as you note, when it only works for a few months? And in practice this doesn't work for adults after they get a bug.
We don't have a RSV vaccine for neonates because it turned out to be damned hard to make any that was safe. In the '60s a simple inactivated whole virus one was tried, and, damn, this was a challenge (Phase I) trial per Wikipedia (which otherwise matches my memory)! As in, the subjects were exposed to the virus, 5% of the controls hospitalized, 80% on the vaccine arm, including two deaths.
The problem turned out to be a floppy protein, stabilizing it resulted in a vaccine that can be used on adults, and this lead directly to a similar path for the better SARS type coronavirus vaccines.
The anti-vaxxers screamed endlessly the original SARS vaccine test, again a simple inactivated virus, killed all the animals it was tested on!!! Like scientists weren't problem solvers. Per Wikipedia a 2013 paper pointed out the stability problem for RSV, and per the second link below a solution was found for SARS type coronviruses in 2017.
Which all the US authorized vaccines used, except Janssen added a third stabilization to it's ultimately too high severe adverse effects single dose vaccine. The Oxford clown show didn't for some reason, their efficacy was lower with two quick back to back doses, adverse effect rates were't good, and both used adenovirus vectors.
A family which had never made it past a European sized Phase II trial, and produced blood clotting problems, per a paper I glanced at for Oxford's, due to something on the (chimpanzee) virus' surface. Not of much interest, AZ which was strong armed into making the vaccine (not previously a business line for them) tried a US sized Phase III trail but didn't submit an application to the FDA.
Although maybe part of that was the criminal clown show of a notorious grifting company, though multiple administrations, W, Obama, Trump 1.0, that wasn't competent when it came to spinning up production of it and Janssen's in their US facility in Baltimore. Among other things they tried to make both in the same facility and got cross contamination.
Sputnik V was also of this type, and their claims of no adverse reactions were an obvious lie, all vaccines have a small rate of anaphylaxis. One reason my pediatrician's office in the 1970s maintained a portable kit that included epinephrine for injection and a small oxygen bottle, why today Walmart etc. asks you to hang around for fifteen minutes so they can Epipen you if needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_syncytial_virus_vaccine
https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 02:44:06 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle Coronaviruses are yet another special case.
We were warned at the beginning the four wild type endemic ones, one perhaps from the late 19th Century Russian "flu," weren't good at providing long term sterilizing immunity.
Per one paper I skimmed and my vague memory, a third of the people they checked appeared to have gotten that, to regions common to all coronaviruses. That is, very conserved. which tends to mean very vital to a virus.
Which could help explain the weird patterns of wildly different COVID outcomes, comorbidities including age were much less strong in predicting bad outcomes than expected. My hypothesis being these people had already gotten at least one coronavirus "common cold," and their immune system did a fantastic job of targeting.
But for most people, COVID sterilizing immunity didn't last, wild type virus and/or vaccine, although statistically much better outcomes were seen in people who'd previously gotten one or both forms of immunity. But the virus being a lot more lethal, per one study of VA data including a terrible 8% delayed mortality rate after six months for those not hospitalized (see link for details, and that population wasn't very old).
By the time of super-super-super transmissible Omicron, per local hospital reports none vaccinated were dying, although as far as I know it wasn't though to be inherently less lethal than classic, Alpha, and Delta, which were sequentially more lethal.
"I wish COVID hadn't brain broken so many people."
Indeed; the US Right has turned out not to be fit for purpose in existing in a technological world with, you know, competition like the PRC, or running one. Being systematically excluded from STEM is no excuse for not learning the essentials anyway.
Looks like the @Shadowman311 is not going to reply to me, so I might as well call out the stark insanity of making life and death decisions about your children purely on opposing "anything Elizabeth Warren or Chuck Schumer supports."
They are merely as tribal as he is and the rest of the Right has become, and, heck, why did we even bother to walk out of the jungles to up north of the Sahara? Literal niggers....
https://www.unz.com/isteve/when-will-biden-finally-shut-down-flights-from-india/#comment-4613645
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CoQ_10 (coq_10@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 03:05:27 JST 
CoQ_10
@BowsacNoodle @ThatWouldBeTelling @Shadowman311 The RSV vaccines for newborns and infants all ran into the problem of antibody dependent enhancement. That's why they developed the immunoglobulin shot for RSV, which is recombinant and has a retail price of just over $500. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 03:33:26 JST
That Would Be Telling
@CoQ_10 @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 In my reading just now in Wikipedia (I know, I know) a problem with maternal antibodies to RSV was mentioned for infants.
Sounds like the dengue vaccine problem which is an archetypal example of ADE, although they only should be given to someone who's already had it. Which sounds like it was a Phase IV post-marketing discovered problem, vs. the Phase I for RSV which was also much more severe.
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CoQ_10 (coq_10@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 03:33:26 JST
CoQ_10
@ThatWouldBeTelling @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 Yeah, I think dengue is the classic example of that. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 04:18:03 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 And these people have no explanation worth anything about how smallpox and rinderpest (measles was a zoonotic jump from it ~500-1500 AD) were wiped off the face of the earth.
Smallpox used to kill 30% of populations already culled by the first wave(s).
In a way, I'm glad I'm old, because my parents members of the early Silent Generation. They know in their bones all sorts of harsh realities from pre-antibiotic infections, and my father's life was saved with first generation, an injection in the butt every four hours penicillin. Ditto a cultural Boomer friend who's mother was completely freaked out because rheumatic fever had been a death sentence (actually, I think she might have gotten a next generation form, but they did dose her up to the gills).
As well as the realities of hard times, the Great Depression and WWII. Not quite obsessed with food, but it is very very important to them, and reading between the lines while they grew up on farms, they must have had malnourished peers. Per the USDA that was a quarter of the population before WWII, when the draft confirmed their estimates.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 04:58:36 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling >your core programming challenged
Do you get your knowledge from bitchute? -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 04:58:37 JST
That Would Be Telling
@Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 "Small pox was pretty much not a thing anymore long before the 'vaccine' came out...."
You are so completely ignorant and determined to miss the point it's breathtaking.
The "vaccine" started as a 1796 thing! It killed hundreds of millions of people in the 20th Century, and I was required to get a booster before one trip outside the US in the early 1970s.
And it's gone. That's not "pretty much not a thing," that's "not a thing at all!"
And you're completely ignoring the rinderpest animal disease.
Where the indeed very significant, greatest in the First World (and maybe Second? (Communists)) gains in mortality rates were made from potable water and sanitary sewers or the like, and real public health, is not relevant.
That you didn't even check it out tells us your a tribal NPC parroting what you've been told. You're no better than the other side's extremes.
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 04:58:37 JST
Zardoz
i interpret your ad hominem attack as anger.
The anger you feel at having your core programming challenged is understandable.
You got what, 4 vaccines? What do you think about the 72 injections in the American vaccine schedule?
Do you see this as the same?BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 04:58:38 JST
Zardoz
Small pox was pretty much not a thing anymore long before the ”vaccine“ came out, eliminated by improved sanitation.
Eyewitnesses To the revolution in water and sewage sanitation predicted that snake-oil salesmen would claim the victory was due to the “vaccine”
We have been lied to. All of us.
Your parents, you, and everyone since have been conned into injecting our precious newborns. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:07:21 JST
Zardoz
I thought we were having a good conversation, I was composing an answer to your interesting last post.
I won’t waste my time if your mind is made up. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:07:21 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling My apologies, that was uncalled for. My mind isn't made up on most things of this topic, honestly. And I think I've been clear of my general skepticism of the current vaccine schedule and most vaccinations in general. While there are a lot of questionable things around viral vaccination efficacy, it is possible that some of these have worked. We had the original smallpox partial inoculation attempt going back to the 1700s with cow pox infections, for example. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:23:22 JST 
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling At least you’re aware the cowpox tale is only a partial inoculation, at best.
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:23:28 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling The whole time growing up that was sold to us kids as the “invention of vaccines”, from whence the name derives.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:24:12 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling I can't wait to explain to my kids how heard immunity's definition was changed and they yelled at us for noticing -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:30:06 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling >to evaluate effectiveness one must also evaluate safety to determine whether harm has occurred. They cannot be separated.
Probably the biggest point that can't really be addressed by the diehard pro-vax crowd, IMO. No control group is possible once mass vaccination occurs. Sometimes the potential risks appear to be worth it, and the challenges inherently present to the calculus do actually affect everyone. Polio vaccine is a good example of this, because it did cause shedding of live polio, a waterborne virus, for something like 6-8 weeks. An uninfected area could suddenly have a vaccination campaign start and result in infected (paralyzed) adults who simply objected or weren't reached in time. Perhaps when we had more social cohesion this was less of an issue, but I also wouldn't blame anyone who resisted a modern vaccine (I refused COVID despite severe employer pressure). -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:30:07 JST
Zardoz
Apologies gladly accepted!
It sounds like you have put in some work into challenging the status quo thinking, which is always encouraging to me.
i Think to evaluate effectiveness one must also evaluate safety to determine whether harm has occurred. They cannot be separated.
When I tried to evaluate this for myself I found a profound intellectual mess of shifting definitions, poor continuity, shitty science, & corruption.
I will address the pneumonia vax in that post. 🙂 -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:32:52 JST
That Would Be Telling
@Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 I'm indeed angry, because you're a fundamentally dishonest interlocutor and representative of the potentially terminal decline of the mind in the Right, which I'd like to be part of.
See for example how you move the goal posts from "4 vaccines" to "72 injections."
And you continue to ignore rhinderpest, again a disease wiped off the face of the earth.
But you did make me curious, I would have had a minimum of childhood nine vaccines, and thirteen inoculations as a child, not counting the third smallpox booster for travel.
Perhaps ten of the former if I got both types of polio vaccines, the inoculation count depends on how they were formulated back then, I checked MMR and measles and mumps. On the other hand, I wouldn't have gotten vaccinations for either as a baby because of when they were licenced in the US.
TL;DR: If you have to lie to make your case, you don't have a case.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:32:52 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Zardoz @Shadowman311 I don't see the 4 vs 72 question as a goalpost shift; he may have been simply asking your thoughts on the current schedule (if you agree with it or think it's too heavy handed). I know this is a loaded topic but it's better to be more chill, which I say after already doing the same type of overreact earlier. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:34:11 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Back before April 2000 I remember thinking flu shots were a total crock of shit, on the basis that rapid RNA mutation undermines any real progress toward a lasting inoculation, and I had very little faith even then that their prognosticators could really determine which strains would be the “three most common”. Fast forward twenty years, and basically *nothing* had changed on this front - just twenty years worth of millions of people doing a religious observance. But then all of a sudden they knew precisely how many infections were “COVID” vs influenza. Mmm hmm. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:36:31 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling I hate flu shots and outlined the flawed logic in a prior post, but there is actually a viral competition factor. Claiming ZERO cases of influenza was total BS, but back when swine flu hit it was delayed in like France because of another respiratory virus dominating the scene there. I guess the point is that these people (media and gov) are evil and will twist half truths to their agenda, but we already knew that 🙂 -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:43:35 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling I think it is fair to say that viruses"are incredibly tough to vaccinate against, and that risk is always present. That's not a statement that makes people happy— terrain theory bros will say I'm ignorant for believing in viruses, medical system enioyers will say it's dangerous or that people who *truly understand it* have already made the risk calculation in favor of the treatment. I still favor bacterial vaccines and treatments (antibiotics ) because the cause and effect is so direct and low tech that we can see it with a primitive microscope in our living room. Fact is the contamination risk is just so high with viral stuff since you're trying to grab sections of something in the modern method. At least with bacterial ones you can see what's there under a microscope. -
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JollyWizard (jollywizard@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:43:36 JST
JollyWizard
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling early vaccinations were cutting your arm and bleeding into your neighbor. Open wound contact transfusions.
it was complete pseudoscience.
the smallpox claims predated electron microscopy and were made based on experiments that were laughably dirty and uncontrolled.
No substantial data science was performed on population efficacy.
Junk science based on theory and superficial evidence.
Still, they passed mandatory laws and punished people even if their family had a history of injury from the practice. Forced vaccine hysteria began almost immediately.
One of Pasteur's descendants provided a series of his alleged documents that include admissions of fraud, such as poisoning the animals used in public demonstrations.
When they moved on to shots the production process was barbaric unsanitary. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:44:33 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling What it boiled down to for me was a probability assessment. I never disputed the technical possibility that viral competition may have affected actual outcomes. Just that Occam’s Razor strongly suggested other motives at play.
BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:45:35 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling In theory, polio is one we could just stop and instead give babies a live virus and just let them have the scoots for a few days once they're like 2. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:45:36 JST
Zardoz
Indeed. The intentionally ignored control group is the kryptonite to the entire scam. If the science of vaccines was so clear, wouldn't the control group studies be waved in my face? That would down the anti-vax movement in 2 seconds.
Polio is a mess when you look at the history. "Dissolving Illusions" covers this history extensively.
Even the google will tell you all polio for the last decade has been caused by the vax.
The writing is on the wall. -
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vic (vic@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:47:42 JST 
vic
It's probably like everything else that started off with the best intentions. I imagine there were a few widespread vaccinations that actually worked (like smallpox mentioned earlier, though it's debatable of course) and for which the benefits far outweighed the risks, with unadulterated data to back it up.
Then the big dollars started flowing, the scientists and doctors became businessmen, "do no harm" started applying to their bank accounts instead of their patients, and it all went to hell.
I don't think the very first vaccine was some luciferian pharmakeia kabbalah conspiracy, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:49:21 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@vic @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Smallpox even has its own massive baggage. They accidentally infected all the boomers and older Gen X with a virus that causes cancer in mammals. I forget what it is, but if you look it up it mentions "does not cause cancer in humans but in other animals". 😂 Okay sure. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:50:16 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@BowsacNoodle @JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling I’d wager a guess you’re not familiar with Roy Rife ?
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:50:16 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Name doesn't ring a bell -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:54:03 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@JollyWizard @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling ,.you could argue that the disease was actual an environmental poison, such as rf or pesticides, and that the viral particles are a byproduct, but then that theory applies to all flus.
I actually like this hypothesis more than I want to admit. It's basically like the plot to Deadspace, where some influence of tech causes a release of a certain thing present in our DNA. A lot of the big flus corresponded to major technological events, so it seems an interesting coincidence. Comets also have historical association with plagues and it could be RF related. -
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JollyWizard (jollywizard@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:54:04 JST
JollyWizard
@BowsacNoodle @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling flu has never been proven to be contagious. when they studied the Spanish flu they spit in people's mouths and still could get a statistical correlation. this was despite claiming they had associated it with viral detection.
you could argue that the disease was actual an environmental poison, such as rf or pesticides, and that the viral particles are a byproduct, but then that theory applies to all flus.
alternatively you could argue that contagiousness is actually dependent on lifestyle factors of the recipient, and the mechanism of spread is a minor factor to inconsequential.
or they just fucked up one of the biggest flu science periods in history but everything else is legit tho, definitely not bullshit. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:59:18 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@vic @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Some of that can be explained away by dosages and metabolic pathways. They use adjuvants in humans which are metaphorically like a matador waving a cape at a bull towards the immune system so that they can (hopefully) make it target the virus. Sometimes that messes up and you end up with nervous system damage or other autoimmune conditions, but we have to pretend that die as not happen or we're science deniers 🤓 -
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vic (vic@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 05:59:19 JST
vic
I've never understood the messaging about animal testing.
"It causes cancer and turbo-AIDS in mice and monkeys, but have NO IDEA what it will do in humans, we really can't say, it's probably safe!"
Okay, so why were they testing in animals then? Just for fun??
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:00:43 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@BowsacNoodle @JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling The real picture is like this - but even more glorious. The highest resolutions attainable use the likes of Focus Ion Beam Microscopy - but you’re forced to kill the sample and cannot see it moving around in real time that way.
BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:03:20 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling I purposefully set the goalpost in my top reply and don't worry about viruses for the purpose of this discussion. Bacteria is enough to focus on, and we do a good job of understanding it by shape, response to stains/washes, and predictable other patterns. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:07:27 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 I looked briefly into this earlier and there's different forms offered for children vs adults. Childhood vaccination is so sketchy that I don't know in general if it's worth exploring. I know the adult one works, but who knows how the childhood version functions. I also know some people with autistic kids who definitely became worse once they got their vaccines. The study is "deboonked" but my eyes aren't. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:07:28 JST
Zardoz
Interesting. Let's steel-man your annecdote.
We have a use case for an adult, not as a random preventative, but as a solution to a recurring problem. If this person has been properly informed to the risks, which have been adequately studied using long-term, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies, then what objection could I have?
None.
In that case I would need to augment my argument that "all vaccines are scams."
So let's see those studies ;-).
They better be pretty damn RIGOROUS studies if they are going to inject kids, who's development may be affected.
Glad your friend found relief regardless. -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:11:44 JST
Zardoz
Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:11:58 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 I try but I'm just an educated fool -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:12:39 JST
Zardoz
That is good place to set the goalposts. We can all agree bacteria are real. The viral crap is seriously convoluted.
But then we get into the world of true complexity. Hyper-symbiosis is a phrase I have just become aquainted with. Throw in bacteriaphages and we have a level of complexity that should make inspire awe in sceintists, and an extreme hesitance to meddle in throwing off invisible balances.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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JollyWizard (jollywizard@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:40:13 JST
JollyWizard
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling now I understand your earlier reference.
It was my understanding that several people claimed to have observed, but those are of course claims and dependent on trust of origin.
I had read somewhere of minor pleomorphism observations or recordings in more modern times, but Google deleted it's search history and I can't even find where I heard that anymore.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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JollyWizard (jollywizard@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:40:14 JST
JollyWizard
@Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling bechamps postulates about pleomorphism don't get enough shine due to the virology debate stealing the spotlight. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:40:14 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@JollyWizard @Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Well and how Rife literally saw it happen thousands of times over and over again in the 1920s-30s.
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:41:40 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling >He then used a radio frequency beam ray to destroy the organisms, which he used successfully to cure many serious conditions, including polio, TB and cancer.
Interesting
>He is relevant to the history of pleomorphism in that he was able to isolate a virus he found in cancerous tissue and transform it into a fungus and then into a bacterium. He was able to repeat this hundreds of times and showed that the pleomorphic development of microorganisms goes beyond the bacterial level to the fungal stage.
Ayo, hold up. That's some wizard tier stuff. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:47:26 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@JollyWizard @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling >I do think that a lot of these guys believed too hard in their own pet theories and it was used against them unfairly when they were doing good substrate work
That is my position on traditional terrain theory as well. Not to say that it's entirely wrong or that the germ theory model is perfect, but the terrain theory model is basically "quantum physics but microorganisms".
>No this is actually a good thing until you look at it to study it and it turns into a bad thing!
🆗... well what about the fact that you can take the bad transformed thing and put it in a good healthy environment and it causes problems? -
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JollyWizard (jollywizard@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:47:27 JST
JollyWizard
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling would love to check that out if you can get me a reference. I'm partial to believe them, but also not to hate them or totally dismiss them if I feel like they got carried away.
it's very clear that "the narrative" is hostile to alternative perspectives and uses pretty shallow arguments to reply and discredit.
I do think that a lot of these guys believed too hard in their own pet theories and it was used against them unfairly when they were doing good substrate work -
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 06:47:28 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@JollyWizard @Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling It’s all good; I’m just sick and tired of everybody pretending it didn’t happen. It obviously did. There’s a guy in Germany that actually went on to correct all the weird idiosyncracies of Rife’s original microscopy systems through the 1970s-90s. He actually went on to try to sell them a few years back. Dropped off the face of the earth all of a sudden. Hmm.
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:08:59 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@JollyWizard @Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling I’ll see if I can’t drum some stuff up; the Old Internet was a lot better for finding Rife materials, and independent researchers networking their own findings and contraptions. A lot of that got trashed with Geocities - though I’m sure some of the archives have some. Any more I’m mostly interested in building working models of the pertinent principles; I probably won’t have access to the likes of the 1920s Timken Bearing Co. R&D shop/lab anytime soon 😔
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:09:24 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @JollyWizard @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling The problem with modern Rife Machines is that they are partial and incomplete. They can actually be used as-is against big things like protozoan infections, with some success. But go after anything smaller and you need a functioning lab that can update data as needed, since organisms change and adapt. The original Rife Ray Machine also relied on electric impulse and not merely RF. One could probably integrate the current devices into something more effective.
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:09:25 JST
Zardoz
What about Rife's son's machine? I see him on X. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:13:37 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@ThatWouldBeTelling @Zardoz @Shadowman311 >The poliovirus, having a hard crunchy protein shell on the outside instead of being an enveloped virus
melts in your mouth, not in your hand :). Curious, does polio have any animal reservoirs or is it just humans? -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:13:38 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 The poliovirus, having a hard crunchy protein shell on the outside instead of being an enveloped virus (outside is fragile cell membrane stolen from the host cell, with proteins sticking out), does survive in water for extended periods of time, per a Brave AI search 75 or more, but declining rapidly by the end of that period.
So not forever, water is kinda hostile in various ways (extremely hostile if it's totally pure, will grab atoms from most anything it's stored in, this is a real problem for certain scientists). And drinking water is treated with chlorine or chlorine compounds, which keep killing all the way to the faucet, important for suppressing cholera.
While the story was suppressed or is strongly denied for the obvious reasons, the Greens convinced Peru to stop chlorinating the water in Lima (the Greens actually want to completely outlaw that vital atom (really)), and that gave them a cholera epidemic in 1991....
Bacteria vs. virus, but chlorine is mighty effective. Still need to add UV to get Giardia which is a protozoa and thus much more sophisticated than a bacteria.
So I submit that if we don't see any polio cases for a decade in the whole world, we'll be able to stop vaccination like we did for smallpox and rinderpest. If we can fucking do the latter even in Darkest Africa, which has a zillion alleles (genes) for lactose tolerance vs. one for the rest of the world....
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:15:19 JST
☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
@WandererUber @BowsacNoodle @JollyWizard @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Terrain Model is a good start, but necessarily incomplete as pleuromorphism is also an established scientific reality 😁
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Wanderer über dem Nebelmeer (wandereruber@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 10:15:20 JST 
Wanderer über dem Nebelmeer
@BowsacNoodle @JollyWizard @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling just tagging in to say
>the terrain theory model is basically "quantum physics but microorganisms"
is probably not quantum physics but "pop culture quantum philosophy but microorganisms"
I'd bet good money on there not being a single hermitian operator in any literature about it. I have never heard of this theory until now
This thread seems like it will be a good read! -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 12:33:14 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zardoz @Shadowman311 @ThatWouldBeTelling Temu SARS (lab leak) -
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Zardoz (zardoz@gigaohm.bio)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 12:33:15 JST
Zardoz
So….lab leak or natural origin? (Covid) -
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 12:33:16 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Zardoz @Shadowman311 We wouldn't be trying to eradicate poiliovirus if it had a known animal host!
And the campaign would be providing evidence of such a host; getting to the recent very small numbers of known infections in some years is implicit evidence.
Per Wikipedia, monkeys can be infected with it in the lab, and transgenic mice were constructed for a small animal model. Per the below paper found with Brave AI, the former requires direct inoculation into the central nervous system (CNS), and there is as common a "specific cell surface molecule" to get into cells.
Wikipedia credibly claims "Because of its short genome and its simple composition—only a strand of RNA and a nonenveloped icosahedral protein coat encapsulating it—poliovirus is widely regarded as the simplest significant virus." With a claim of only "about" ten viral proteins, that's not many at all.
For example, no N for nuclecapsid structural protein like with coronaviruses that packs up the RNA, mutations in that did better and better jobs for the Alpha and Delta variants, I forget about Omicron. The crunchy protein shell crudely does that.
The "about" depends on how you count them, for example the melts in your mouth gut outer shell starts as one protein, which is cleaved into two parts which are each cleaved again into a total of four. As usual, the host cells provides various proteins etc. to do a lot of the heavy lifting.
Seriously wild, except this sort of thing is routine I think, its RNA folds upon itself, and a lot of that is conserved (mutate one of them and the virus can't virus).
All sorts of wild things naturally happen starting with "junk" DNA that is defined by not directly coding for a protein, instead has other functions including regulation and shaping what exits the nucleus a mRNA, m for messenger from the DNA to the ribosomes that use it as a literal control tape to make proteins.
Or TL;DR: especially with the help of viruses including bacteriophages we understand a lot of this at the molecular level.
Or insight into what DNA had to do biologically is why Watson and Crick figured it out its structure, while chemists like the sainted Franklin and Linus Pauling, the best 20th Century one, were barking up a triple helix which makes no biological sense.
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 19-Apr-2025 13:04:34 JST
That Would Be Telling
@Zardoz @BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 99.999% sure SARS-CoV-2 came from a lab leak of a gain of function experiment. Almost certainly done by "The Batwoman" in a Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) BSL-2 lab.
That is, a normal lab bench with minor precautions, not in the two levels up, highest danger and most booked for use BSL-4 lab the WIV has.
That is, she was not in an uncomfortable, much less productive moon suit you see in a photo or two. BSL-3 is the absolute minimum that's sane for gain of function research, obviously BSL-4 is not too much, but really BSL-"we will kill you if you try this shit" is what's required.
From my knowledge of the biology angle, Alina Chan did some of the first good work on this while locked out of her lab by looking at full genomes.
Unlike SARS-CoV(-1) early on and which died out it is was remarkably well adapted to humans, did not mutate a lot to get better as of when she did that work, start with "SARS-CoV-2 is well adapted for humans. What does this mean for re-emergence?" in May 2020.
She then wrote two papers every couple of months which gets us to the first sample of the first significant variant, Alpha. That is, the first one seriously more adapted to humans, much more transmissible, albeit also with a higher death rate.
She later wrote a book, that should be a good intro. See also reports on the DRASTIC team, like "The Lab-Leak Theory: Investigating Fauci's COVID 'Can Of Worms'" by Katherine Eban, published in of all places Vanityfair.com in June 2021
They do good, highly technical for the MSM work upon occasion, see also for example the one on Steve Ballmer's catastrophic HR policies while he lead Microsoft.
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That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 20-Apr-2025 01:05:51 JST
That Would Be Telling
@BowsacNoodle @Shadowman311 OK, I understated the requirements for BSL-2 lab facilities; per the CDC and common sense:
"All procedures that can cause infection from aerosols or splashes are performed within a biological safety cabinet (BSC)"
Which is evidently "just a hood," all labs should have one anyway for dangerous chemicals work, and per Wikipedia there's a bunch of hood designs that avoid sucking in lots of unfiltered air which could contaminate what you're working on.
Per that article, gloveboxes are a BSL-4 thing (along with a lot else!), although I think I remember some people claiming they had "enhanced" BSL-2 labs due to their having gloveboxes.
In all these BSL-2 cases, the big problem is will the researcher actually use a BSC at all times it's required? Which could be beyond the "infection from aerosols or splashes" cited above. Drag their stuff off their lab bench area to the BSC, maybe even including mice, then back?
And if you're testing your mad scientist respiratory disease gain of function creation like COVID on humanized mice (transgenic with human cells in the important places), after inoculation you need to keep them in a negative pressure system so they don't spread it.
The PRC is notoriously lax in doing the needfull, multiple SARS-COV(-1) escapes in Beijing, Steven Mosher even reporting that pre-COVID one Beijing lab worker was selling dead animals for food instead of burning them....
The WIV notoriously, after building their first Official civilian BSL-4 lab with the French, kicked out as soon as it was done, violating the agreement they French would then teach them out to use it. And long pre-COVID the State Department was reporting they were sloppy. See also the picture with a freezer that had seals which weren't where they were supposed to be.
Also worth reading up on Feynman's cargo cult science concept if you've not heard of it before, he first observed it while on sabbatical in Brazil. Heh, when he gave them a lecture on their failings, he cited two students who'd escaped it ... both of whom later told him they'd learned science basically outside the system of this university when their professors were too busy with WWII work to do normal teaching and supervision.
https://www.cdc.gov/training/quicklearns/biosafety/
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