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1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 04:36:37 JST Paul Cantrell

   • DrGeof

   Jeeeeeeebers, this article…!

   “A Tesla does not need to be moving, or have its engine running, to suddenly burst into flames”

   “[Teslas] can self-ignite after weeks of sitting peacefully”

   “burned hotter than 3,000 degrees “

   “12 firefighters to extinguish the blaze…about the same amount of water used to put out a building fire”

   “an unattended Tesla has the potential to burn down an entire structure”

   “garage went up in flames and required at least 6 firetrucks to extinguish”

   “2 passengers died…after a driverless Tesla veered off the road, struck a tree and burst into flames”

   “30,000 gallons of water to extinguish the fire”

   “Tesla Model S in Frisco, TX shot out flames ‘like a flamethrower’”

   Fire “broke out as a Tesla Model S was sitting in a parking garage. The car had suffered no recent impact…was not charging”

   From @DrGeof: https://mastodon.social/@DrGeof/114024882572630148

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 04:43:39 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     It still boggles my mind — •boggles• — that Teslas have computers that (1) are connected to the drivetrain and (2) receive OTA updates. And every one of them can spontaneously unleash a fire with the force of an entire burning building. An armada of remote-programmable firebombs.

     Like…just…what?? what?!?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 04:48:23 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     I just hope to hell that the first mass remote attack on Teslas — something which is entirely plausible, bordering on inevitable — is some hack that is alarm-bell-raising but minimally harmful. Something like, say, bricking all the Teslas in the world at once.

     The alternative — a hostile actor looking to commit mass murder by, say, making every Tesla in the world catch on fire — is a horrifyingly realistic possibility.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:12:31 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Shantini

     @shantini
     To be clear, I’m not doing this; I’m saying that •somebody• is going to do something like it sooner or later as long as these things are on the road, and I’m just hoping whatever happens is at the less harmful end of the horrifying spectrum of possibilities.

   • Embed this notice
     Shantini (shantini@techhub.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:12:32 JST Shantini

     in reply to

     @inthehands and if they’re bricked while someone is driving? Why are we targeting consumers instead of corporations 🫠

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:13:43 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin

     @Okanogen
     Yeah, once you start really considering the possibiltiies, it’s unbelievably terrifying.

   • Embed this notice
     okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin (okanogen@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:13:44 JST okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin

     in reply to

     @inthehands
     I could very easily see a hack that uses a #Tesla's gps and self-driving to launch millions of firebomb attacks on targets anywhere, everywhere.

   • Embed this notice
     David J. Atkinson (meltedcheese@c.im)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:15:14 JST David J. Atkinson

     in reply to

     • DrGeof

     @inthehands @DrGeof This is in part because the batteries require constant cooling. That system runs all the time. That is, until it doesn’t.

   • Embed this notice
     iam_sysop (iam_sysop@cyberplace.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:15:23 JST iam_sysop

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     Just another example of Musk targeting the agencies that would regulate this.

     He has spent BILLIONS fighting legislation and fighting investigations -- and now he's just "deleting them"...

     The billionaires have NO PROBLEMS with humans as guinea pigs.

     To them, it's just thinning the herd, and the cost of doing business.

     #HumanCapitalStock

   • Embed this notice
     Alan B (alanb@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:16:01 JST Alan B

     in reply to

     • DrGeof

     @inthehands @DrGeof GM had the ability to figure out why 10 Bolts caught fire will charging, and the decency to recall all of them. Won't happen for Teslas, not the least reason of which is that I doubt they can figure out a reason, despite the cars being rolling spyware

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:17:32 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Large Format Projectionist

     @Benhm3
     It is a bit more far-fetched but still within the realm of possibility that a malicious actor could send Teslas on self-driving suicide missions to specific targets, or even specific target populations.

     Like…we really need to start taking this threat model seriously. There’s a reason Bruce Schneier wrote a book called “Click Here to Kill Everybody,” and in the 7 years since, I still don’t think the world at large has even started thinking about the threats he was talking about.

   • Embed this notice
     Large Format Projectionist (benhm3@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:17:33 JST Large Format Projectionist

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     The Nazi would do that, only to the liberals owning, driving, riding, or standing near a Swastikar.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:36:00 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Rebecca McQuitty

     @RebeccaMcQ
     Most do, yes.

     Not all of them catch fire as much as Teslas. None, AFACIT.

     I’m not sure how many of them grant Tesla-level access to the drivetrain. The whole “self-driving” thing presents a far larger attack surface than, say, diagnostic reports.

   • Embed this notice
     Rebecca McQuitty (rebeccamcq@med-mastodon.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:36:01 JST Rebecca McQuitty

     in reply to

     @inthehands Don’t all new cars now get over-the-air updates?

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandra Magin 🏳️‍🌈 (recursive@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 05:45:55 JST Alexandra Magin 🏳️‍🌈

     in reply to

     @inthehands Even that would be hazardous.

     Maybe bricking upon software update might be minimally deadly. But probably even that would have unintended safety consequences. Software system safety is a bigger deal than it was ever before

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:16:20 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Joe Groff

     @joe
     Ouch

   • Embed this notice
     Joe Groff (joe@f.duriansoftware.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:16:21 JST Joe Groff

     in reply to

     @inthehands i felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out "still love the car", and were suddenly silenced

   • Embed this notice
     Roy Ridin' With Biden #BLM 🇺🇸 (rpardee@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:17:01 JST Roy Ridin' With Biden #BLM 🇺🇸

     in reply to

     • DrGeof

     @inthehands @DrGeof I can't help wondering how much of the danger here is unique to teslas. Are there just dangers inherent in huge-ass EV batteries?

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:17:27 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Alexandra Magin 🏳️‍🌈

     @recursive
     Oh, it would be very hazardous. Like I said, I’m just hoping that whatever the mass hacking event is that first scares the pants off of people — whatever it is — falls at the less-harmful end of the very alarming spectrum.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:18:30 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • werrett

     @werrett
     Good heavens.

   • Embed this notice
     werrett (werrett@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:18:31 JST werrett

     in reply to

     @inthehands https://youtu.be/9xkokcGTK4k

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:19:59 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • DrGeof
     • Roy Ridin' With Biden #BLM 🇺🇸

     @rpardee @DrGeof
     There are, but Teslas seem to catch fire at an unusually high rate even compared to other EVs. Chevy issued a Bolt recall over a fire issue, and that recall may be a clue: that's a company that is willing to take a hit for safety.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:54:03 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • DrGeof
     • NNN

     @NNN @DrGeof
     Oh, the security problems in cars extend far, far beyond Teslas or EVs, yes. But, per other replies:

     - “Full self-driving” presents a computer-to-drivetrain attack surface far larger than conventional vehicles.

     - EV multiple the potential damage a mass hack could cause.

     - Teslas appear to catch fire more frequently than other EVs. Whatever’s going on in those machines appears to be unusually high-risk, even for EVs.

   • Embed this notice
     NNN (nnn@urbanists.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:54:05 JST NNN

     in reply to

     • DrGeof

     @inthehands @DrGeof
     Just for perspective, KIA was recently found to have a dealer back-door to KiaConnect on *every* KIA. And it was open to the world if you knew how to access the web interface.

     So, a bad actor could have remote-started every KIA in the US at 2am, filling homes with deadly carbon monoxide.

     Websearch "KIA dealer portal flaw".

     The problem is bigger than EVs.

   • Embed this notice
     NNN (nnn@urbanists.social)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2025 06:54:06 JST NNN

     in reply to

     • DrGeof

     @inthehands @DrGeof
     To do it justice, you need to speak to specific risks. Not handwaving.

     To ignite, I think the battery would need to be physically damaged, or else overcharged. If the BMS could be reprogrammed OTA, it's possible to make cars that burn while plugged in and charging. That would be horrendous.

     But that's not the same as the implied "Halt and Catch Fire" command from the cloud.