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@rher @veff It's been a hot minute since I did any study on timber framing, especially japanese style timber framing, but it's a lot closer to furniture construction than it is to modern carpentry.
They used fasteners. They weren't swaging metal screws, obviously, but they used tree nails (actual naturally-shaped wooden nails) and square pegs (a square wooden peg going into a round hole will "bite" into it and crush a bit to get a better hold. That alone is superior to the use of metal fasteners that oxidize and "rot" when exposed to the elements, because wooden fasteners will expand and contract due to changes in humidity and temperature at a similar scale to the wooden structure around them (ignore cross-grain difference, these structures are also generally designed with expansion and contraction in mind).
They're also frequently designed in such a way to be disassembled in case any given part needs replaced, though they're designed with superior lumber to the shit stick frame pineslop you see here in the states, so it generally lasts longer to begin with. You see this with a lot of the old massive shrines that need routine maintenance around Japan and have lasted hundreds of years being made almost completely out of wood and are only now reaching the point where the end of lifetime wear is hitting them.
Furthermore, if we're getting into the philosophy of things, a style of construction that takes more time and effort is going to inherently cause both the people that built it and those that own it to care for it more. Japanese carpenters traditionally leave sumitsubo (the hand-carved japanese ink version of a chalk line) in the houses they build as a sort of maker's mark type deal. You don't do that sort of thing, putting your pride as a creator on the line if you don't care.
The industrial revolution was a fucking mistake. We had shit so good and it wasn't enough. We could have lived in nice stable lifestyles, with architecture that was in tune with nature, plenty of wild land to explore, not enough people for pollution to become a serious concern, etc. But NOOOOOO! We just had to make things "better" and "more efficient" for what? Money? Infinite population growth forever? All across the world civilization began dying in the 1700s and probably won't recover. Computers and AI slop are a fucking joke. Timber framing is awesome.
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@rher @veff as a side note, this is also why cut/forged nails are better than the round shank nails you can get in modern hardware stores, though you do frequently need to drill out pilot holes for them depending on the material you're working and the size of the nail
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@WoodshopHandman @rher @veff When I first saw a pic of how they grow their wood for carpentry, I was impressed. Imagine having ready access to cedar instead of yellow pine. :CryingCool:
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@Tony @rher @WoodshopHandman @veff Even Japan? I just know even the hardwoods here have been crappy for the past 10 years+ at big box stores.
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accept now, commercial lumbering has totally fucked wood. They speed up the growing process so the rings are farther apart.
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idk about Japan, i just know in the us
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@BowsacNoodle @Tony @rher @WoodshopHandman @veff l believe a lot of our very high quality timber gets exported
...to japan
stick framing doesn't require high quality studs, it can be done with total shit wood because the walls will still be enormously stronger than they need to be
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@deprecated_ii @Tony @WoodshopHandman @rher @veff True on garbage studs being NBD. My issue has been the general decline in quality over the past ten years. Lumber yards are still good, but orange, blue, and green are choking them. I tried to get the highest end poplar or maple I could buy for some cubby facings (needed to paint it huhWhite and wanted hardwood), and all of the boards were junk at two different stores. I looked every week for a month to buy a 4x6 of pressure treated that isn't horribly cracked for a deck project. It's always like this now.
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@QuisSicutDeus @WoodshopHandman @rher @veff Skill issue. Beautiful wood. Sorry for your allergies though
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@BowsacNoodle @WoodshopHandman @rher @veff My eyes got red and nose started stuffing up just looking at this picture. Cedar is the devil.
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@BowsacNoodle @deprecated_ii @Tony @WoodshopHandman @rher @veff yeah, prime 2x4 in the box stores since covid looks like a blind woodchuck was doing the grading
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@Tony @rher @BowsacNoodle @WoodshopHandman @deprecated_ii @veff forget splits immediately, 50% of it is nowhere near straight
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like half the wood you buy now either splits immediately or is all chunky af
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@Tony @rher @BowsacNoodle @WoodshopHandman @deprecated_ii @veff yeah, the cupping is what makes for the split happy wood, and the bowing is very sketchy for making things that are straight, but from what I've had the misfortune of dealing with the stuff with a twist in it is the worst.
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We are framing some walls right now and we spent like 30 minutes trying to make the wall square only to realize half the lumber is so warped it caused the whole portion of the wall to be at an angle. It's so frustrating
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@sickburnbro @Tony @rher @BowsacNoodle @WoodshopHandman @deprecated_ii @veff I wish I could just get a jointer and planer and just get rough cut shit at this point
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@EssentialUtinsil @Tony @rher @BowsacNoodle @WoodshopHandman @deprecated_ii @veff at this point I'm wondering if I should just by an acre and slap a sawmill down on it.
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@sickburnbro @EssentialUtinsil @Tony @rher @WoodshopHandman @deprecated_ii @veff Years ago before land prices spiked, I found a pair of wooded land for $3k an acre. j was super close to getting it with a few buddies with plans to have it as a fun camping area for Bushcraft or hunting. It was 25 acres of trees. Would be gold today 😞.
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@BowsacNoodle @EssentialUtinsil @Tony @rher @WoodshopHandman @deprecated_ii @veff saddest story I've heard this week
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@BowsacNoodle @rher @veff I think the indigo suits they wear are the more impressive innovation tbh
Woodshop ?
BowserNoodle ☦️
Mr. Bacon
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QuisSicutDeus
Bread up, Bro
EssentialUtinsil :njp:
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