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1. Embed this notice
   mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:02:58 JST mekka okereke :verified:

   This post reminds me that software engineering doesn't have a plus minus.

   https://hachyderm.io/@thisismissem/113545665050649333

   Basketball players used to be measured by stats like Points, rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, etc. You could see that Jordan was good, because he scored a lot of points and didn't have a lot of turnovers. You could say that Dikembe Mutumbo was good, because he got a lot of blocks. Stockton was good, because he always seemed to be the last pass right before a teammate scored (assists)

   1/N

   • Kim Scheinberg, Hrefna (DHC) and Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:09:56 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     But Draymond Green was a key part of the Warriors' dynasty, but he never scored many points, never got a ton of blocks or steals, and never got a ton of assists. But... the Warriors seemed to be invincible when he played, but very beatable when he didn't play.

     Draymond doesn't show up high on most regular stats, but he has the highest single season plus minus in NBA history.🤯

     Plus minus is a calculation of how many points your team scores with you on the court vs with you off the court.

     2/N

     clacke@libranet.de is my main, Rich Felker and Biason::Julio::new(); and 2 others repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:17:24 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     In every tech organization, there are some people that seem to know every system, everybody, and every problem. They're super helpful, and save coworkers months of wasted efforts, by short-circuiting dead end paths, sharing efficient workflows, knowing which services already exist, and generally having great technical judgement.

     *None of those skills are quantifiable on performance reviews, other than peers saying thanks (if they're lucky).

     *Many underrepresented engineers fill these roles.

     clacke@libranet.de is my main likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:28:57 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • SlightlyCyberpunk

     @admin

     Documentation can't help with "judgement on the entire space of all possible future feature additions to a complex system."

     Suppose foldable Android phones are a thing now (they are!). You want to make it easier for developers to build great Android apps for foldable phones. Can 3 engineers really do all this in a few months?

     * Android SDK changes?
     * Jetpack compose changes?
     * Android Studio changes?
     * Material Design changes?
     * Flutter/React changes?

     You can't pre-document this.

   • Embed this notice
     SlightlyCyberpunk (admin@mastodon.slightlycyberpunk.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:28:58 JST SlightlyCyberpunk

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Well...we don't really want to reward that though. Having those people mean your org is in trouble. Get that shit documented so people don't have to waste a bunch of time asking around trying to find that guy.

   • Embed this notice
     Cassander (drsbaitso@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:33:25 JST Cassander

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke That immediately brought to mind related two blogs: [Being Glue by Tanya Reilly]((https://www.noidea.dog/glue) and (more tangentially) On Rake Collections and Software Engineering by FlameEyes.

     And yea, knowing where all the bodies are buried is valuable, and folks that can quickly put together those random, unconnected puzzle pieces have honed an exceptionally-useful skill.

   • Embed this notice
     Cassander (drsbaitso@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:39:57 JST Cassander

     in reply to

     • Doctor Memory

     @memory @mekkaokereke The "Being Glue" blog that Togdon and I both linked covers exactly that issue of doing glue work before you have a title where it's expected.

   • Embed this notice
     Doctor Memory (memory@m.blank.org)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:39:58 JST Doctor Memory

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Ironically I think this _starts_ to show up on reviews once you hit the tech lead levels, assuming (and it's not a given) that your company correctly evaluates tech leads.

     But if you're a “mere” L2 with that skillset? Damned if I know how you're supposed to get recognized for it. :(

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeremy Wakeman (wakejagr@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 12:44:20 JST Jeremy Wakeman

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke

     I like the way you explained that. Thank you.

   • Embed this notice
     Kim Scheinberg (kims@mas.to)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:12:16 JST Kim Scheinberg

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke
     "Plus minus is a calculation of how many points your team scores with you on the court vs with you off the court."

     Any chance you know the history of that stat? Which is to say, how long ago did someone recognize that it was a thing worth tracking?

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:25:00 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Kim Scheinberg
     • Rufus J. Cooter

     @RufusJCooter @kims

     Related: This is the coolest basketball nerd intro to plus minus that I know of:

     https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5WRe6SoBh3g

   • Embed this notice
     Rufus J. Cooter (rufusjcooter@mstdn.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:25:01 JST Rufus J. Cooter

     in reply to

     • Kim Scheinberg

     @kims @mekkaokereke Thought I knew the answer, but I was wrong (I thought it was the Seattle Sonics in the 70s, which was the context in which I first heard it...) but no! It was the Montreal Canadiens in the 50s (per Wikipedia)

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus%E2%80%93minus_(sports)

     Kim Scheinberg repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     sollat (sollat@masto.ai)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:25:30 JST sollat

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke
     In biotech this is sometimes referred to as being an SME (Subject Matter Expert). The person who knows the thing and the other thing and why the third thing is a bad idea. It’s usually a non-management track so it can be limiting within a company, but it helps getting the next job.

   • Embed this notice
     Greg Nilsen (gregnilsen@mastodon.gregnilsen.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:30:57 JST Greg Nilsen

     in reply to

     • Kim Scheinberg

     @kims @mekkaokereke

     I think it's borrowed from hockey, which makes it easier to compare the performance of different lines on the team.

     "The plus/minus statistic was first used in the 1950s by the Montreal Canadiens. This NHL team used this ranking system for evaluating its own players. By the 1960s, other teams were also using this system. During the 1967-68 season, the NHL officially started using the plus/minus statistic."

     https://www.liveabout.com/what-is-the-plus-minus-statistic-2779372

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Kim Scheinberg (kims@mas.to)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:43:34 JST Kim Scheinberg

     in reply to

     • Rufus J. Cooter
     • Greg Nilsen

     @mekkaokereke @RufusJCooter
     @GregNilsen
     Wow. If asked to bet I would have thought it was closer to the Moneyball era than pre-Bill James. Then again I've never been a basketball fan. (Dad had Knicks season tix for decades; I went to 5-6 games)

     Ten years ago I edited a couple essays for Haralabos. His thought-process was interesting but the sport was not. This stat makes me wish I'd kept in touch. Five minutes in, this video is very cool. Thank you. Maybe the game will make a fan of me yet...

   • Embed this notice
     Ludwig Vielfrass (lerxst@az.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:45:42 JST Ludwig Vielfrass

     in reply to

     • Kim Scheinberg
     • Greg Nilsen

     @GregNilsen @kims @mekkaokereke Super flawed system for hockey as an individual statistic anyway. Connor Bedard had the fourth worst +/- in NHL last season but I don't think you'd find a hockey team fan alive that wouldn't want him on their team!

   • Embed this notice
     Kee Hinckley (nazgul@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:46:45 JST Kee Hinckley

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke My entire career has been centered around being the person people came to to figure out how something worked. If it's not in my wheelhouse, I'll find the person who knows it. That's how I met my first wife, she'd just started at our company and when she had questions, even about her own side of the org (she was in compilers, I was in UI), her coworkers would say, "Ask Kee, he's right across from your office. He'll know."

     When I joined Meta's Integrity team (aka trust and safety elsewhere), I made it clear to the person who hired me that my leadership style was to understand the system and be a facilitator who found the people with good ideas and helped them be successful. Unfortunately, when I started, the org had changed. When I told me new boss that my leadership style was to facilitate success for others, he said "We'll have to do something about that".

     It was a disaster. Some of that was other issues I was having, but it was very clear that in a company that prides (?) itself on rewarding people based only on measurable progress, someone who helps other people succeed was not going to be valued.

     It even extended to entire groups. I pointed out that the team that built the tools for new groups to integrate content moderation was swamped supporting new teams rather than writing software. "Why," I asked, "Don't we create a team whose sole job is onboarding other groups?"

     The answer was, "We tried that, but we can't keep the team staffed unless we just use contractors, because there's no way to get promoted in a team like that."

     If Meta can't put a dollar value on something, they don't think it's important.

     clacke@libranet.de is my main likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:46:51 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • Kee Hinckley

     @nazgul

     😮

   • Embed this notice
     Coach Pāṇini ® (paninid@mastodon.world)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 13:54:08 JST Coach Pāṇini ®

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke

     This reminded me of #ShaneBattier: https://www.m13.co/article/nba-all-star-shane-battier-leadership-founders-future-perfect-2024

   • Embed this notice
     geraldew (geraldew@fosstodon.org)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 17:07:05 JST geraldew

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke and as a bonus some have been in the same organization for decades and can recite not only most of the sequential system changes but take a fair stab at why each happened (technically, bureaucratically, politically).

     Caveats: I nearly put "economically" in that list, but can't pretend that's ever a top level concern. Ditto "productivity".

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Jeremy Kahn (trochee@dair-community.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 17:07:18 JST Jeremy Kahn

     in reply to

     • geraldew

     @geraldew @mekkaokereke

     My favorite version of this is "org toggled between vertical silos and horizontal silos"

     Survivors who remember the other siloing have the potential for major plus-minus wins

     ...but are rarely rewarded for them

   • Embed this notice
     curtosis (curtosis@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 17:10:35 JST curtosis

     in reply to

     • Kim Scheinberg
     • Rufus J. Cooter

     @RufusJCooter @kims @mekkaokereke And yet … it is in fact a controversial stat in this era of heavy analytics. For example: https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/11/01/behind-the-numbers-why-plusminus-is-the-worst-statistic-in-hockey-and-should-be-abolished/

   • Embed this notice
     Rufus J. Cooter (rufusjcooter@mstdn.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Nov-2024 17:10:36 JST Rufus J. Cooter

     in reply to

     • Kim Scheinberg

     @kims @mekkaokereke which, after a moment's reflection, makes perfect sense: hockey is a sport much more resistant to the sort of statistical analysis of individual performance than, say, baseball, where evaluating an individual player's performance by the numbers is pretty straightforward

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Remco van Bree (blikkie@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 04:38:05 JST Remco van Bree

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke this is the natural role I end up in in every job I've had, since I'm generally very interested in the business problem the software is solving. I've been pretty successful at aligning my achievements along the quality engineer/tool smith career pathway at my current employer fortunately

   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 04:54:23 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke

     these are sometimes called "glue" or "soft" roles but still not given the credit they are due for how vital these roles are.

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Jess👾 (jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 04:54:23 JST Jess👾

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6

     And disproportionately done by women and minorities. @paul_ipv6 @mekkaokereke

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     bicipoiesis (bicipoiesis@layer8.space)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 06:26:16 JST bicipoiesis

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke imo that's probably true for any kind of organization. Not just tech. Had no idea of this plus minus score. Thanks!

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 06:58:49 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     • Jess👾

     @JessTheUnstill @mekkaokereke

     yup. because they are used to not just "winning" due to privilege and understand collaboration.

     (this is just talking about those willing to take such roles, not the issue of only being seen as capable of such roles)

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 06:58:49 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     • Jess👾

     @JessTheUnstill @mekkaokereke

     personally, when i started doing more "glue" in my tech roles, i got a lot more done and enjoyed my job and coworkers vastly more than trying to be the "tech stud".

     when "getting stuff done" over-ruled "but i'm right", i was also a lot less stressed.

   • Embed this notice
     Su_G (su_g@aus.social)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 07:32:06 JST Su_G

     in reply to

     • bicipoiesis

     @bicipoiesis @mekkaokereke Came here to day the same thing, & now wondering how that Plus Minus score could be operationalised for other areas (looser teams, larger groups, ...). Fascinating fiscussion: thank you all! 🙂

   • Embed this notice
     lkngrrr (lkngrrr@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 08:53:06 JST lkngrrr

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Hi. It me.

   • Embed this notice
     SalusaSecondus (salusasecondus@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 08:57:52 JST SalusaSecondus

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke when I was at Amazon I tried to identify these people across the company so we could recognize and reward them. Unfortunately, I wasn't in a position where I could make that happen.

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sophie Schmieg (sophieschmieg@infosec.exchange)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 08:59:05 JST Sophie Schmieg

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke they somehow promoted me to senior staff engineer doing this, so I do hope it is mildly useful to the company.

   • Embed this notice
     SalusaSecondus (salusasecondus@wandering.shop)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Nov-2024 09:29:11 JST SalusaSecondus

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke Specifically, I tried to have the following question added to our internal engineer survey:

     "Please list up to five people who are not in your immediate team or org who you consult with on a regular basis."

     (Wording might be slightly off as this was almost 20 years ago.)

     The idea was to find highly connected people who don't look they should be (position, seniority, etc.) and reward them. Also target them when we're trying to influence the company.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 10:13:53 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • waffles 🇨🇦

     @waffles

     Agreed, although I might frame it as "skilled in this aspect of management" vs "less skilled."

     It is a learnable skill, that can be decomposed into smaller skills.

     Many managers were field promoted due to making the critical mistake of being too competent, caring too much, and accidentally showing too many leadership attributes. They never got any real training in the art and science of people management.

     It's stressful to feel responsible for people's careers without these skills.

   • Embed this notice
     waffles 🇨🇦 (waffles@masto.yttrx.com)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 10:13:54 JST waffles 🇨🇦

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke a weak manager will do poorly at representing their reports’ work. A strong manager will recognize this type of work and ensure that the other managers in the room during calibrations also recognize the value of this work.

     Fix the shitty managers.

   • Embed this notice
     mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 10:25:14 JST mekka okereke :verified:

     in reply to

     • waffles 🇨🇦

     @waffles

     🤣ROFL!

   • Embed this notice
     waffles 🇨🇦 (waffles@masto.yttrx.com)'s status on Thursday, 28-Nov-2024 10:25:15 JST waffles 🇨🇦

     in reply to

     @mekkaokereke

     “It's stressful to feel responsible for people's careers without these skills.”

     I stopped smoking weed once I went back to being a SWE.

   • Embed this notice
     Simeon.__proto__ (dotproto@toot.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 07-Dec-2024 10:58:33 JST Simeon.__proto__

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6
     • Rowland Mosbergen

     @rowlandm @paul_ipv6 @mekkaokereke I feel like I'm in this bucket and I've tended to describe myself as the grease that keeps the machine running smoothly

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rowland Mosbergen (rowlandm@disabled.social)'s status on Saturday, 07-Dec-2024 10:58:34 JST Rowland Mosbergen

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6

     @paul_ipv6 @mekkaokereke in my terminology, I call them translators or generalists.

     They not only know how to talk to people to get things done, but also can push back because they have enough knowledge to know when others have already done it/ know that it is possible.

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.
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     Rowland Mosbergen (rowlandm@disabled.social)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 08:46:21 JST Rowland Mosbergen

     in reply to

     • Simeon.__proto__
     • Paul_IPv6
     • The Animal and the Machine

     @taatm @dotproto @paul_ipv6 @mekkaokereke

     "I used to have what I called ‘the Sargent’s network’. We all knew who was the grease in each department and we’d constantly talk and keep things from breaking."

     I totally get this!

   • Embed this notice
     The Animal and the Machine (taatm@mathstodon.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 08:46:26 JST The Animal and the Machine

     in reply to

     • Simeon.__proto__
     • Paul_IPv6
     • Rowland Mosbergen

     @dotproto @rowlandm @paul_ipv6 @mekkaokereke
     I’ve been the grease.
     The proof of being the grease is that:
     • Senior management doesn’t value you while you work there. You even get asked what you do and the really bad ones ask you to justify your time.
     • When you come back from holiday your team is in joyous tears and your manager values you for a quarter.
     • Everyone externally comes directly to you.
     • Senior management really values you after you have left, as costs have gone up considerably.

     I used to have what I called ‘the Sargent’s network’. We all knew who was the grease in each department and we’d constantly talk and keep things from breaking.

     mekka okereke :verified: repeated this.