mekka okereke :verified:
Happy international men's day!
Reminder to be more like Black men!
Black men:
* Are seen as more masculine
* See themselves as more masculine
* But we do more stuff considered feminine?🙂🙃
* And no one says a damn thing!
Because this whole masculinity thing is made up and a scam. Stop hurting yourself!
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/113051689610950204
No seriously, stop hurting yourself. Black men have one of the lowest age adjusted suicide rates.👍🏿 White men? One of the highest.
mekka okereke :verified:
Self imposed masculinity pressure isn't the only reason so many men are depressed. But it's a big one.
Policing your own behavior can lead to loneliness and isolation, and straight up just not enjoying things.
Bad: No one shows me affection!
Good: Aye, I love you man!
Bad: Men don't eat ice cream!
Good: This ice cream is hitting!
Bad: Changing diapers is women's work!
Good: My diaper game is unmatched! NASCAR has nothing on me! I invented the baby pit stop!
mekka okereke :verified:
You're not a man because you wear certain things, or act a certain way. You don't have to perform manliness.
You're a man because you are one. That's it!
There's no special kind of way that you have to be.
Wear what you want. Talk how you want. Hang out with who you want, and how you want.
If you're a man and you're doing it, that makes it something that men do.
mekka okereke :verified:
Yes. A lot of the foolishness that men do to themselves is "US only," or "US first."
When I share stats about how much more involved in childcare Black dads are than white dads, understand that this only applies to the US. 🤷🏿♂️
https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/109835078446477677
The significantly more parent involvement that Black US dads have compared to white US dads, is what a white dude in Sweden or Finland would call "the normal amount of parenting." 🤡
Joakim Fors
@mekkaokereke Just to be certain: the graph is data from the US?
mekka okereke :verified:
🤣
Oh no!
Your diaper game is too strong! You overshot! A common error.
It's a game of inches my friend! We're going for "good husband," not "great husband."
blaue_Fledermaus
@mekkaokereke
My diaper game made my wife give up on doing it 😁
JoeChip
@mekkaokereke @joakimfors
The work hustle culture in the US is massively harmful to men's mental health, not to mention their ability to do effective parenting. Are we fixing this? No, we are just subjecting women to the same toxic culture.
Kevin in Alaska
@mekkaokereke but let me tell you about the funny looks I get when I, a licensed psychologist and researcher, tell people that whiteness is a risk factor…
trachelipus
@JoeChip @mekkaokereke @joakimfors An interesting observation on hustle culture. One of my sibs is in a firm struggling with employees leaving due to family care demands.They are especially surprised by the departure of their most experienced female employees. The guys tended to work until age 70 & sometimes later because they enjoy the work. The women do not, often because they are retiring in order to care for their slightly older husbands, their own nonagenarian parents, or their grandkids.
mekka okereke :verified:
I think it has more to do with the puritanical influence on US culture.
The toxicity is not a white thing, so much as a white American thing.
For example, men in Sweden or Finland are as involved in childcare as Black men in the US are. Men in Europe are much more likely to wear pink, eat gelato in public (gasp!), hug their friends, etc. as a result, European men are much less lonely than American men.
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2024/03/middle-aged-americans-lonelier
So Black men are unique in this regard *In America*.
craignicol
@mekkaokereke I wonder if that's a result of Black men traditionally having many more female role models than White men? So strength and success are not seen as purely male attributes? There's plenty of white women who were written out of history in favour of their husbands or colleagues.
mekka okereke :verified:
This is something that would be weird to a lot of European men, but there are a lot of American dads that:
* Don't know their kid's teacher's name
* Don't know their kid's doctor's name
* Don't know their kid's food allergies
Not divorced dads! Dads that live with the kids🤦🏿♂️
A lot of US dads are feeling proud because "Yes, some dads don't know this stuff. But I'm one of the good ones! I know this stuff!"
And a lot of European dads just read that in disbelief, slightly horrified.
mekka okereke :verified:
Horrified European dad:
😮 If you don't know your kid's allergies, how can you ever fix them something to eat?!
😮 Don't you see your kid's doctor every time you take them to an appointment? Don't you learn this by accident/osmosis after like the 3rd visit?
😮How do you not know the kid's teacher's name? Isn't it on like, the report cards? Again, don't you learn this by accident with no effort?
Many US dads:
🤷🏼♂️ My wife feeds the kids. And me!
🤷🏼♂️ Wife takes care of that.
🤷🏼♂️ Wife.
craignicol
@mekkaokereke UK feels like it's stuck between Europe and US on this (like many other things). Definitely feels like a generational shift, my parents generation would definitely be the US way, the generations after me are generally the European way in the majority, and Gen X me still feels like I stick out like a sore thumb because I'm the only dad in the mums group - even though I meet other dads at the school.
craignicol
@mekkaokereke there's definitely a stronger gender balance in Scandinavia and it's spread to some places in Europe, but certainly not places like Italy, which has a dramatically low birth rate partially because women just won't (see also the 4b appropriation in USA, but Italy's objection is more individual than organised)
mekka okereke :verified:
Male, yes.
White male, no. US white male rate is much higher.
craignicol
@mekkaokereke interestingly, Sweden's male suicide rate is comparable to USA, but Germany, Denmark, Norway and UK are much lower https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country
craignicol
@mekkaokereke you can see just how low Italy's birth rate is here. Like Japan, the birth rate is well below the replacement level, so the population is shrinking leaving a shrinking younger population to look after a growing older population. I can see this happening in the USA too, but that's going to put a lot more pressure on an already fragile white male population, which is not going to help the numbers in the graphs you presented.
mekka okereke :verified:
I have zero sympathy for any country lamenting "population decline." Population decline is not a real thing.
"Replacement rate" is not a real thing either.
Every country on earth with a shrinking population, could solve all of their population shaping problems with immigration.
There is no shortage of people that want to be citizens of your country. There's only racism and xenophobia.
Advanced Persistent Teapot
@mekkaokereke @craignicol wait what the fuck? Eating gelato in public is bad how?
Steve Loughran
@mekkaokereke @craignicol what is this "see a doctor" thing that you talk about?
mekka okereke :verified:
😢
mekka okereke :verified:
American Indian / Alaska Native. 😢
𝓐𝓷𝓭𝔂𝓣𝓲𝓮𝓭𝔂𝓮 𓀤
Who is the "AIAN" group that is even higher?
Weird Socks
@mekkaokereke
Yeah. I'm a cis het middle age white man. I see this cultural difference many working days
You're right. Black men I see are generally much better at this.
I'm trying, friends. That's what I can say.
Charo del Genio
@mekkaokereke @craignicol I can relate to that. I am a white cis hetero European university professor. I was once visiting a group at a university in Texas and taking a walk on campus, when a student called the cops on me because "there's a man dressed weirdly walking around". It turns out I was wearing a T-shirt with horizontal coloured stripes that were similar to the LGBT flag colours. Same place, a few days later, I was wearing pink and a girl stopped me and told me "You know, Jesus loves you even if you are like this.".
This left me with two thoughts. The first was the level of discrimination experienced by LGBT people day in day out. The second was that ultimately, I probably had no problems with the cops (i.e., I'm alive) because I'm white. These were/are chilling thoughts, and I think this is what people refer to as privilege. Scratch that, it's not chilling, it's bloody scary.
Adriano
@mekkaokereke @craignicol Italy has had *decades* to figure this out. I studied there in the early 2000s, and they already had a population aging problem, and migration. They chose to do a big racism.
Adriano
@craignicol @mekkaokereke Oh yes for sure. I mean, it's been *a full generation* time. 25 years lost to this bullshit.
craignicol
@adriano @mekkaokereke and a big sexism too, IIRC. Wasn't that Burlusconi's time?
Kay :heart_bi: :tinoflag:
@mekkaokereke @craignicol Yep. The meaningful number is How Many Humans on Planet Earth? When it slides below carrying capacity and decent lives, maybe authorities might look at policies.
Policies that can help include access to healthcare and support for reproductive rights. People should be able to choose to have a child or not.
Currently far too many humans aren't getting their needs for water, shelter and food met while a few super wealthy people have too much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity
mekka okereke :verified:
Some silly American right wingers think that eating ice cream in public is not manly.
It would just be silly if lots of wanna be masculine guys in the US didn't take it to heart and deprive themselves of delicious ice cream.
docht
@mekkaokereke @craignicol
I'm European that's why I have to ask: what is it about gelato? Do white men in the US fear to eat ice cream in public?
D Ingram
@mekkaokereke @craignicol The countries lamenting decline also ignore the wealth transfer to older generations that means many people can't afford to have children even when they want them.
Both causes can be solved by opening hearts and wallets.
Carolyn
@mekkaokereke High five! People are freaking dying in boats, looking for a better life, but the "oh no, the population is in decline!!!" will just let them drown. "Pro life!!!!" Unless it's a woman with replicating cells that have a possibility of becoming a human or it's a refugee. @craignicol
coatilex
@mekkaokereke Maybe you have factored this in but what about violent death in general? In the US Black men are much more likely to be the victim in a homicide compared to white men. The rate of homicide per 100k population is around 20 for black people and under 5 for white people.
Suicidal ideation is linked to risky behavior which is more likely to get you killed as a Black person, e.g. to get shot by police https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6082017/
mekka okereke :verified:
Yes, I've taken this into account.
Some numbers to put it in perspective:
Each year in the US:
About 1000 people die in mass shootings.
About 20,000 people die in homicide, including cop shootings. Mostly Black. About half by gun.
About 50,000 die by suicide. Mostly white men. Mostly by gun.
Suicide eclipses all other gun death, and it's not particularly close. The most common US gun death, is white male, self-inflicted, legal gun. 😢
mekka okereke :verified:
True. And here's the truth about the argument for gun control that no one wants to hear...
There's a big difference in gun ownership by race. White men are ~2X more likely to own guns.
In countries that have gone from lots of gun ownership to much less gun ownership, the suicide rate has dropped accordingly.
https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/1996-national-firearms-agreement.html
The deadly trio is: depression + alcohol + access to a firearm.
Yes, we should address the depression/loneliness too.
coatilex
@mekkaokereke Thank you for sharing and I have seen these absolute numbers. But as a relative comparison, since they are fewer, Black men are more likely to die from violent causes (homicide and suicide combined).
Moreover, the rate of suicidal thoughts is roughly the same at ~5%
juliette
@mekkaokereke I know it's the least important thing on your list, yet I am stuck on the gelato thing. Why in the world is eating ice cream a gendered thing? I have never heard about this before!
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
@paraw @mekkaokereke @craignicol Someone called the cops on my grandma because she was going for a walk. In a Miami suburb were apparently nobody ever walked this counted as "suspicious". As she was elderly and white and female, rather than young and black and male, at least they stopped to talk to her rather than just shooting first.
mekka okereke :verified:
Yeah, they just make up silly rules to conform to their definition of masculinity.
Steve Loughran
@mekkaokereke @craignicol I can't believe that in the US it is somehow viewed unmanly to eat ice cream outdoors. Indeed, I recall that very nice gelateria in downtown Mountain View was always popular –though I never took a note of the demographics of the customers.
Here in Europe, we are proud to eat our ice creams. Not sure about hugging in Britain though.
#icecream
Ronan
@mekkaokereke @craignicol thanks for pointing this out. It hadn't occurred to me in such stark terms. Totally agree
S.P.Zeidler
@mekkaokereke xenophobia is a hard problem. I had something of an aha moment watching some villagers doing xenophobia towards a stranger, who was Not From Here - but from the next middle-sized town. All of 40km distance. It basically needs hacks around humans' bugs.
Matt McIrvin
@mekkaokereke @craignicol A few decades from now the whole world is going to run out of countries making lots of babies.
But we're not there yet. Won't be for a while. And anyone who is marginally less racist now is going to benefit when the global shortage comes. Is there any country in the world that will learn? Dunno. I was hoping the US actually had a better shot than most of Europe but I guess not.
JackieM
No way to have a birth rate crisis and an immigration crisis at the same time
(Unless you’re racist)
S Bodzin, Real American 🇺🇸
@mekkaokereke @craignicol the US & Canada have long outsourced their birthing, especially to Latin America. Europe could do the same with Africa but they're too racist
Alan Francis
@mekkaokereke @craignicol (sorry to jump in, but) 100% agree. Here in Scotland I think most of us would *love* to have more immigration. We're a country that *needs* people, but unfortunately our immigration policy is being set in London by English parties catering to English voters..
mekka okereke :verified:
Counter counter point: It's fine. We'll make more.
Wulfy
Counterpoint: Depopulating third world is bad for the nations that are losing folks with determination and/or education
Also you're right about the xenophobia.
mekka okereke :verified:
"Culture clash" is usually just another way of saying "incumbents being racist and xenophobic."
canusfeminacanis
@mekkaokereke @craignicol
Largely, I agree with you.
To ignore individual difficulties in learning a new culture and/or language, starting over, however, is a bit naive. Not all migrants make the cognitive shift.] Result: culture clash. Immigration should always be on a case-by-case basis.
mekka okereke :verified:
Generalisations are very useful. Especially when talking about this topic.
"Sure, a few people from country X is good, but too many will lead to a culture clash!" Is something that racists and xenophobes say. Very often.
But if you want to get specific, I'm happy to hear examples of "culture clash" that aren't just racism and xenophobia, usually by the incumbents, but sometimes by the migrants.
canusfeminacanis
Perhaps too frequently, but not universally. Generalizations aren't really helpful when discussing the subject, btw.
Thought: there are 'white' people who don't transplant into other 'white' cultures.
mekka okereke :verified:
No. That's a massive goalpost move.
"I tried this country and didn't like it so I'm going back home!" Is fine. That's something normal people say. 👍🏿
"We need to limit immigration, because you might have 'culture clash'!" is something racists and xenophobes say. 🙅🏿♂️
canusfeminacanis
@mekkaokereke @craignicol
Some Brits come here, and can't adapt to a different culture. Some Americans, too, They move back home when they can.
I came here as a migrant. Any challenges I face are for me to deal with. I can't control what other people do, or how other people think. Only me.
mekka okereke :verified:
I'm super confused by what point you're trying to make.
1. Who is suggesting that immigration just be universally let everyone in? I didn't come close to saying that. Immigration is always case by case. How else would it be done?
2. But "culture clash" is a silly, racist, xenophobic thing to try to base it on. It makes very little sense.
I'm making a point about "number of visas allowed per year." Any country complaining about birth rates, should increase it.
canusfeminacanis
@mekkaokereke @craignicol
Well, you think it's normal. I think it's normal. You'd be gobsmacked to find out how often the discontented don't, regardless of race. :o
Like I said, immigration needs to be on a case-by-case basis. Generalizations don't make good immigration policy.
mekka okereke :verified:
Do they though?
Isn't most of the problem that:
1) Boys dump almost all end of life care, and the associated trauma and grieving, on their sisters?
2) We prefer to have centibillionaires rather than social safety nets for our parents?
3) That we don't have many multi-generational households anymore? We all want to move to the city to get an apartment and live by ourselves like big boys and girls?
Aren't there places that still have multi-generational homes?
Brian "bex" Exelbierd
@mekkaokereke @craignicol I agree with you 100% on immigration. It fixes a ton of macro and micro issues. It doesn’t fix is the social order where those in generations larger than their successor generations won’t have the same familial access and “care” as their parents had. This requires more societal change than “don’t be racist.” Most societies poorly manage large numbers of lonely aging people. We need to fix that. I think immigration could be key here too.
Darrell Hilliker 👨🦯♾️📡
@kevinrj @craignicol @mekkaokereke Yes! All of this! Thank you for making it all so blatantly clear.
Sam Wronski
@mekkaokereke @craignicol "population decline" is just how people say "eugenics" now I think.
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