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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith “Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?“ Jesus answered, “Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.”
~ John 19:10-11
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith @KingOfWhiteAmerica It's very obvious what this means, and it's very obvious what the previous quote means. Both of these can be read in the same framing and be accurate: Christ willingly accepted this as The Father had commanded, He could've stopped it if He wanted (Satan tried to tempt him to do so).
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[Jhn 10:18 KJV] 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith > You're busy arguing for a more guilty jews to justify yourselves.
I’ve been wondering, silently, to myself, if you ever get tired of this. If you feel the need to resort to cheap shots, impugning the motives of people for affirming doctrine they’ve received, I don’t think there’s much room for doubt about the answer.
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@KingOfWhiteAmerica @bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith It's never about self justification. Earthly punishment matters, as do prudent actions and wisdom while in this mortal life. Salvation is available to them, but I would be foolish to let them run my society or have any earthly power if we have any say in the matter. I don't get why Bob doesn't see this.
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith Omega said:
> I didn't say the Romans were more noble. I said they had the common sense to know that Jesus was innocent.
Besides that Jesus said the greater guilt was on the jews.
But you also think the jews over there are actual Israelites despite any evidences otherwise so this argument is futile.
You said;
> So Gentiles bear the greater guilt?
and;
> Don't paraphrase Jesus.
I then presented the Gospel passages relating directly to the points that:
1. Each Gospel agrees about who delivered Lord Jesus to Pilate, and
2. Lord Jesus Himself specifies who bears the greater sin.
which, as far as I can tell, precisely pinpoints where Omega’s assertion comes from.
I do not see how this passage, or any of the other passages you quoted, somehow nullifies this position. We’re obviously not just making it up. While I can technically imagine the possibility of some better explanation coming along, I must admit I’ve got no idea how it could possibly refute it, without like redefining definitions of words or something
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You're busy arguing for a more guilty jews to justify yourselves. All are guilty.
I'm pointing out that they are the least guilty because they are and were ignorant of their actions.
Today. I know that my sins from tomorrow held Him to the Cross.
How about you?
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith I’d bear guilt for the murder of God in the sense of knowing I would almost certainly have acted nigh-identically to Pilate, in his shoes. And Our Lord wouldn’t have had go through with any of it in the first place if not for sinners like myself.
That said, the impulse to actively raise a huge stink in order to have Him executed vis-a-vis statecraft is, admittedly, rather foreign to my own natural constitution. I’m not Righteous by any stretch, but I’d be lying if I said I was inclined specifically toward *that*. But yes, there is guilt in standing idly by and *allowing* it.
But because it happened that way, God directly defeated Death. So I’m quite grateful He did what He did.
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It was the sins, not the nails.
I killed Him. One line. No dancing.
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@Omega_Variant @bobbala @konata @Owl @AngryWraith I honestly don’t know what more would need to be said. Very often, we’re obliged to infer sound doctrine from far less.
The impulse to take something spelled out so clearly, directly and emphatically - but then deliberately *choose* to abandon the details, is pretty hard to fathom.
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Are you personally guilty of putting Him to death?
I am. Were there no jews. I still killed God.
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What words? You're replying to a quote.
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Don't be coy with me
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Rofl, holy shit dude. You deny Jesus's own words.
Lmaaaaooooo
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@BowsacNoodle @bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith It just blows my mind.
For a couple months, maybe, I’ve watched as a dozen or so accounts, from a very broad range of perspectives, Traditions or whathaveyou, completely mop the floor with Bob’s tired, milky, Hagee-tier AM Radio judeoMcChristian positions and assertions — and he doesn’t budge an inch. No arc, no character development, no indication that he’s weighed or considered a single thing that didn’t already agree.
And I’ve wondered; holy smokes, if that were *me*, I’d have begun to at least consider the possibility that maybe I’ve missed something. That would seem *natural*, at least, I guess is the word for it.
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith @KingOfWhiteAmerica Do you think the people who claim to be jewish today are the same referenced as such in scripture? It's pretty clear they're far more like the Synagogue of Satan than "holy", and I consider calling them that borderline if not outright blasphemy. They were chosen as the people to use to bring Christ to the world. That doesn't mean they're blessed forever nor that they're irredeemable human garbage. That many of them choose to reject God and bring wickedness into the world is their own decision, as it is for all of us.
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Never have I said jews are righteous. That's my point. They are Chosen. They are Holy. They are set apart. Nothing they do, did or will do changes that. It entirely relies on the Chooser.
We are justified in identical manner.
If they are damned, so are you. His Word then fails.
Bow, it's great that you want them to repent! Rejoice! Your prayers are answered with a yes. God said they would. Bank it.
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Their covenant was fulfilled with the crucifixion and resurrection. Everyone has to follow Christ to get to heaven. He said so. jews do the opposite.
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@bobbala Highlights. What is Jesus rebuke of the fig tree referring to?
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Tell me everything you know about the Synagogue of Satan. From the Bible, not your imagination. Who are they? What happens to them?
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Is that everything you know or just the highlights?
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@bobbala The synagogue of Satan and the fig tree are related.
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We were discussing the Synagogue of Satan. It is specifically mentioned in the Bible.
If you wish to change the topic to something that doesn't reference Synagogue of Satan, I understand.
Remember Jesus' answer to Peter.
[Mar 11:20-22 KJV] 20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
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@Omega_Variant @bobbala @konata @Owl @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle @agaperealm Incarnating as a man in human history, and being unjustly executed on behalf of a sinful world that mostly hates me, in order to defeat Death by death isn’t something I came up with.
I solidly and publicly refute any suggestion that this was my idea, or that I contributed anything to its occurrence.
But no matter how many times I disclaim this, I’m pretty sure somebody will still try to project such a motive on me.
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Everyone but you, right?
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle @agaperealm Not sure I follow where that’s coming from ?
The received Ecclesiology isn’t anything I can take credit for; it’s what He did, and passed on to His Apostles, who passed it on to His Disciples, who passed it on to the Bishops, in an unbroken line to the present day.
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I apologize.
Everything you poast comes out like ...
[Luk 18:11 KJV] 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
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@agaperealm @bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. I am the vine, ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit; for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
~ John 15:1-2, 5-6
“And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.”
[proceeds to drive the crooks out of the Temple]
“And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.”
~ Mark 11:12-14, 20-22
Traditionally, we understand the symbolism of the True Vine and its Branches as the Communion of Faith. Because we are saved, by Grace, *through* Faith. This is, of course, an Ecclesiological statement.
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I understand that you're really great.
Have you ever considered glorifying God?
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Tell me what the Bible says. Not your imagination. The specifics. What was Satan's sin? Why did he start this congregation? What happens to 'em?
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@bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle @KingOfWhiteAmerica This is a thoroughly discussed topic with all of the receipts included. If you're legitimately not familiar with the pathology of the modern Jew I can direct you to these threads but I'm not interested in a debate on this well documented topic.
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@BowsacNoodle @bobbala @konata @Omega_Variant @Owl @AngryWraith @KingOfWhiteAmerica The Jews of today are Edomites. Most definitely the synagogue of Satan.
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Bob 100% will throw scripture at you post after post after post. Yet, when you throw it back in the form of a explanation or a passage ripped straight from the Bible pages and break his house of glass he ignores it and then circles back with a "mans wisdom" type retort.
He is completely incapable of being wrong it would seem which is why I generally ignore him altogether.
I guess scripture is all he needs to understand the Bible, to which I agree to a point. However he goes beyond that at takes everything the Bible says at face value. God doesn't always speak plainly, clearly a literal dragon will not rise out of a pit and go to deceive the nations.
God gave you a brain, he gave you logic, he expects you to use them to learn and understand what he said beyond face value. Also outside sources such as history books, concordances and the like are invaluable for helping to get context to events in the Bible narrative.
Sola Scriptura is absolutely correct to the point of understanding what you need to know to have eternal life and to have your doctrinal stances on rock solid foundations. But beyond that it takes searching history books to fully understand the picture as the Bible is very scant on details on some events.
For example, the Bible doesn't mention the greeks, turks and other people actually recorded the migrations of Israelites through europe. It doesn't give you the names they called them like scythian, cimerans and others. It doesn't tell you they lived in Germany, france, britain, russia, sweden, scottland, etc. It wont tell you that turks known as Khazars decided to turn to judaism and later claimed to be jews. It wont tell you that when Jesus called the pharisees the children of the devil, it was because he knew the ones he spoke to were of edom like herod was. It won't tell you that many, if not all, the romans were of the pharez line of Judah.
But hey, thats fine, man's wisdom and stuff. Stay ignorant is what I say to him I guess.
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@Omega_Variant @konata @Owl @bobbala @AngryWraith @BowsacNoodle @agaperealm I’ve had similar, parallel obsvervations; though one highlight worth mentioning is that St. Paul knows about Scythians
> “where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scyth´i-an, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.”
~ Colossians 3:11
One thing to note is they’re listed as an “opposite” of “Barbarian” - which is Classically understood as a statement of language. This is a tremendously powerful fact, rightly understood.
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