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Alex 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 (alexlac51@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:01:01 JST Alex 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
@MaddieT
IMO, Threre are #NO #WestminsterParties who have any interest in what is best for the people of #Scotland...🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 ... #none...
@AnthonyFStevens @Wen @CloudyMrs @soren

In conversation about a year ago from mastodon.scot permalink
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:00:59 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  Do you have any statistics to backup your claim? Personally I've never witnessed what you're saying.
  As I keep repeating, few people I've happened across in #England care about #Scotland or #NI in the way you speak. They see Scotland as no different to visiting #Newcastle.
  I was in #Glasgow a few months back & had a thoroughly good time & was treated well. When #Scots visit my City, we treat them as we would anyone else. We're all victims of London.
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:00:59 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @soren I think your heart is in the right place but you clearly just don't understand the political scene in Scotland. That's fine, you don't need to, but please don't try and explain us, to us. We don't hold the opinions and feelings we do through the lens of what "most English people think" about us. Just because you see us in a particular way doesn't mean we have to see ourselves that same way. That would just be silly.
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:01:01 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @CloudyMrs @soren
  I wish the very best for #Scotland & wish them no ill will. To be honest, I've never come across an English person who doesn't like #Scotland.
  You need to separate politics from constitutional issues, as they're VERY different.
  
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  Wen (wen@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:01:01 JST Wen
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  Direct ill will - only a few, but ignorance and contempt - a lot, many of them in your party.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:04:35 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @Wen @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @soren despite having previously had her views highlighted.
  
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  Wen (wen@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:04:36 JST Wen
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren What statistics do you want? You seem to not have listened to anything Starmer has said, or was even aware of Nandy.
  https://www.thenational.scot/news/23770067.keir-starmers-frontbench-said-scotland-independence/
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:06:00 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren what evidence is there for England wanting devolution?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:06:01 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @CloudyMrs @soren
  Anti-Westminter much like much of #England. We've all suffered the same #London centric fate. In actual fact, I'd happily bet that #Scotland gets more from Westminster than my region.
  This is why we want devolution, because we're tired of Westminster sorting out their heartlands first, & throwing the scraps to the rest. Trust me, it's not been a bed of roses for the rest of the #UK.
  
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  Alex 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 (alexlac51@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:06:02 JST Alex 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens
  everything in life is a matter of opinion... you have yours and I have mine...and mine won't change...
  and for clarification, I am #Not anti-#English but I am completely #anti-westminster
  @MaddieT @Wen @CloudyMrs @soren
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 00:14:16 JST Mrs Cloudy
  @Wen @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @soren I agree with that 100%. Usually left leaning folk who move to Scotland because they can see the place is a better fit for them than where they were. Often arrive, full on Labour and Unionist, but quickly shift to one of the Scottish parties and whole hearted support for Independence. They're often really surprised by the difference between the media narrative they've been fed about Scotland, and the reality they find when they get here.
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 20:41:39 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren I'm fully aware that devolution in England continues to be discussed and in some cases delivered, but I'm also aware that most English people are as equally ignorant and disinterested in their own devolution as they are of everyone else's. It certainly is not the case that there's a huge demand for it.
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 20:41:40 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @CloudyMrs @soren
  Being #Scottish it's probably gone unnoticed North of the border, but it's been a HUGE issue for nearly 40 years by many #English regions who feel left behind, & second to #London & the #Tories #Southern Shire Counties in their rural Stockbroker belt heartlands.
  This has been the quest for my region since the riots of 1981. Like I said, it's not just #Scotland who feel left behind & ignored by Westminster.
  https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/insight/getting-to-grips-with-devolution/
  
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  Alex 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 (alexlac51@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 20:41:41 JST Alex 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens
  I give up sir,
  first time I have heard that you want devolution...
  is that in "sir" starmers manifesto?
  no I thought not...
  @MaddieT @Wen @CloudyMrs @soren
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 20:42:36 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren https://www.bennettinstitute.cam.ac.uk/blog/deals-based-approach-to-english-devolution/
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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    Trouble ahead for the deals-based approach to English devolution? - Bennett Institute for Public Policy
    
    from Rebecca Leam
    
    The success of English devolution requires a coherent and long-term framework that addresses the challenges with the Government’s current approach, write Jack Shaw and Jack Newman.
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:46 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @spytfyre @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @soren your argument is so muddled up its almost impossible to argue with. Telling us you support us but simultaneously that you think we are irrelevant, is an odd one at best.
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:47 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @spytfyre @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  How does #Scottish politics affect my life in #Manchester? I'm being as empathetic as I can to your cause, but it seems like some of you are looking for an enemy to fight when I'm not one.
  I don't need anyone to fight my corner. I'd just like a bit of respect & understanding of my views as a bystander to #Scottish politics.
  If this is how you are with supporters of your cause, I dread to think what you're like with enemies. 😳
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:48 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @spytfyre @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  I'll be frank. You come across as if you see everyone in #England as your enemy, & we're all anti #Scottish, pro Unionism & anti #ScottishIndependence... We're NOT! I can't make this any clearer than I already have.
  I live in #Manchester. Tell me how #SNP policies for Holyrood, & Westminster's refusal to allow you another referendum affects me, & how I can affect it? You're not doing your cause any favours by seeing enemies everywhere.
  
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  Spïtfîre (spytfyre@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:48 JST Spïtfîre
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  You be Frank but you don't know me and I don't anti English so please again stop putting words in my mouth
  My wife is English.
  The only problem I have is with Tory voters!
  I'm trying to be on your side for gods sake but from this point on. You're on your own. Talk about doing any favours you undo yourself!
  Scotland has an impact on you.
  I don't have to tell you why I could be here all day. You don't think it's there and that's sad
  
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  Spïtfîre (spytfyre@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:49 JST Spïtfîre
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  Argh miss my point entirely.
  Honest* reality in your head maybe.
  Policies do affect because they make Westminster look bad. That's why Westminster torpedoed gender recognition reform and deposit return scene recycling!
  Repeating how you can't vote SNP merely sounds like get out clause. (So move to Scotland)
  I don't think England voting on getting rid of Scotland would surprise me, don't think to know my mind.
  Trying to be on your side
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:50 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @spytfyre @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  Point 5 is the whole point. Don't think everyone in #England is a Unionist. Far from it! It's just what can we do to effect #Scottish politics apart from voting to elect who rules from Westminster?
  We don't have an #SNP option in England, & SNP policies for #Scotland don't affect us. That's the honest reality. I think if you gave England the option to vote for #ScottishIndependence, I think you'd be surprised by the support you'd get.
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:51 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  I'm not shifting my arguments, you're just not listening. I'll explain them to you again.
  1. I'm 100% IN FAVOUR of #ScottishIndependence
  2. I can't vote #SNP in #England
  3. #Labour offer the best realistic way forward for my region.
  4. For No 3 to happen, #Labour would have to win #GE2024 hence them becoming the national government of the #UK.
  5. #Scottish politics doesn't directly affect me.
  6. I refer you to point No 1.
  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🙏🏾
  
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  Spïtfîre (spytfyre@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:51 JST Spïtfîre
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  Having only stumbled upon this thread with the last post I can only sympathise that the SNP aren't a choice you can make.
  However statement 5 is terrible given the contribution Scotland makes to the UK as a whole. So our MP's in the house of commons don't vote against Tories? Seems a little thoughtless.
  Have a read of the book
  How the Scots invented the modern world. Mind opening stuff we silly do not get taught. I wonder why.
  
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  Wen (wen@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:01:52 JST Wen
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @CloudyMrs @soren
  I have never argued that - you seem to be shifting your arguments continuously.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:38:24 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren put in a search for English rejection of devolution any you'll get just as many hits.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:38:25 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @CloudyMrs @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren
  Just put a search for #English devolution & you'll find a plethora of information on it. Having elected Mayor's with limited devolved powers was the start, but the #English regions want more.
  We're all tired of being dictated to by Westminster. Your concern is with #Scotland, hence why I feel you may have missed the strength of feeling about devolution throughout the Midlands & the North in particular.
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:55:43 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @spytfyre @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @soren people pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments is not because we aren't listening properly. It's because your arguments come from a position of flawed logic. I couldn't care less if most people in England support or oppose Scottish independence. You seem unable to understand that different perspectives exist and take our refusal to see the world from your perspective as somehow anti you. It isn't.
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Sunday, 26-May-2024 23:55:44 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @CloudyMrs @spytfyre @Wen @alexlac51 @MaddieT @soren
  You're just not listening.
  YES I support #ScottishIndependence, BUT it's NOT a massive issue to the average person in #England. Why would it be? It doesn't mean huge swathes of us aren't sympathetic to your cause
  You seem to think anyone South of Hadrian's Wall is automatically an enemy. We're not! BUT realistically what can we do to effect #ScottishIndependence & how does your plight affect our daily lives? It doesn't. That's the reality
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Monday, 27-May-2024 00:02:25 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren themselves.
  
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  Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙 (anthonyfstevens@mastodon.online)'s status on Monday, 27-May-2024 00:02:26 JST Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
  in reply to
  @CloudyMrs @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren
  Devolution for whom?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Monday, 27-May-2024 00:19:55 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren "The first of (what was planned to be) a series of referendums took place in 2004 to decide whether devolution should take place to the North East of England. The vote was over three to one against. There were no further referendums and regional devolution died."
  
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  Mrs Cloudy (cloudymrs@mastodon.scot)'s status on Monday, 27-May-2024 00:20:19 JST Mrs Cloudy
  in reply to
  @AnthonyFStevens @alexlac51 @MaddieT @Wen @soren https://ukandeu.ac.uk/devolution-in-england/
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: ukandeu.ac.uk
    
    Devolution in England - UK in a changing Europe
    
    from Professor Tony Travers
    
    Devolution in England is a potential big win for Boris Johnson's Government. Tony Travers on how constitutional arrangements could evolve.

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