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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 23:13:39 JST Huntress But you're not understanding the historical context of the Levant, with their unique tradition of child sacrifice. -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 23:13:38 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @KingOfWhiteAmerica @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar The earliest evidence for child sacrifice in the Levant is established around the 15th-14th century BC, six hundred years after Abraham. The Neo-Assyrians popularized it in the 9th century. In the context of Moses's warnings against it in ca. 1406 BC, it was likely an innovation on the part of Canaanites stretching back to Hyksos expulsions. In other words, it is exceedingly unlikely that a cultural practice of child sacrifice was on Abraham's radar - especially not in a theological sense. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-2024 23:41:30 JST BowserNoodle ☦️ @SuperLutheran @Huntress @KingOfWhiteAmerica @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar Wasn't the time of Abraham's life possibly later than that? I read something about a possible 600-900 year span with 'scholars' placing him on either end. I can't find it at the moment, unfortunately. -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:24 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar Tsk tsk, resorting to swearing and more accusations. Shame on you for that.
Do you have any claims or sources written before Eusebius that Abram hailed from Sanliurfa? -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:24 JST Huntress If you'd read the article I gave you, or any article about the Chaldeans, you'd already know this:
Eusebius was mistaken, because the Chaldeans were not even in Southern Mesopotamia until the 9th century.
" The Chaldean tribes started to migrate—from exactly where scholars aren't sure—into the south of Mesopotamia in the ninth century B.C. At this time, they began to take over the areas around Babylon, notes scholar Marc van de Mieroop in his A History of the Ancient Near East, along with another people called the Arameans. They were divided into three main tribes, the Bit-Dakkuri, the Bit-Amukani, and the Bit-Jakin, against whom the Assyrians waged war in the ninth century B.C." https://www.learnreligions.com/the-chaldeans-of-ancient-mesopotamia-117396
Now, is Eusebius also infallible? -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:25 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar Acts 7:2
"Stephen said:
'Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran'"
The claim is made here by St. Stephen. Why should I believe you or some turks over him?
As for your accusation that I am calling my interpretations infallible, please cite where and how I am misinterpreting the meaning of the text. -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:25 JST Huntress And where is Sanliurfa?
Northern Mesopotamia.
You don't even know fucking geography. -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:26 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Godcast @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar If I were incorrect about the location of Ur, then I (and centuries and centuries of scholarship) would be wrong about a single fact of location with hardly any implications. However, if I were wrong about the identity of Abraham and it turns out God lied with Scripture to get people to stop sacrificing children when Abraham is actually some storm deity...then I have cut off 70% of Christian doctrine *at best* and most certainly blasphemed. -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:26 JST Huntress There aren't centuries and centuries of scholarship claiming Ur was located in Southern Mesopotamia. There's centuries and centuries of tradition in Sanliurfa itself, and among the people of the Mid-East, that it is the home of Abraham. Wooley started the claim that it was the Southern Ur, and as the article points out, his evidence is weak at best. You are not an archaeologist or a historian, you're a preacher.
And, like so many preachers, you start with stating that the Bible is the inspired word of God, inerrant and infallible, then proceed to claim you're inerrant and infallible in your reading of it. I didn't claim God lied or that you lied, just suggested the story might be a lot more interesting than you are noticing. -
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Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:27 JST Godcast (the short half) @Huntress @SuperLutheran @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar "You will have no other gods before me." t.God
False understanding leads to false beliefs, which leads inevitably to unbelief. It has nothing to do with "something Super doesn't like." He's done his homework and speaks from authority. You haven't, and you don't. -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:27 JST Huntress That didn't answer my question.
If Super is wrong about the location of Ur, does that mean he's leading people to false beliefs, or just didn't know about the debate? -
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Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:27 JST Godcast (the short half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar You haven't demonstrates that Super is wrong. You posted one article, that's behind a login, that presents an extreme minority view in contrast to historical consensus. Super also isn't positing anything that's explicitly anti biblical, like your schizoid idea that Abraham was secretly a deity. -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:28 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar Supposing this article is true, it would verify that Terah and his sons were real, mere men. You do realize that, don't you? -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:28 JST Huntress Yes, could be. Funny, I can say that and it doesn't change how I feel about Jesus. But you get apoplectic if someone says something you don't like about the Bible.
Question: Since everyone descended from Adam and Eve, so they all knew about God, and "Zeus" just means "god" why is it so offensive to consider the various ancient forms of storm god worship as God worship? Maybe they were doing it wrong, but it looks like they were trying. -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:29 JST Huntress Gordon was consistent in arguing against Wooley. https://www.gilberthouse.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Where-Is-Abrahams-Ur.pdf -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:29 JST Huntress This is interesting, I hadn't heard about Urkesh as a possible location. It's a little to the east of Sanliurfa: https://armstronginstitute.org/349-has-abrahams-father-terah-been-discovered -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:30 JST Huntress No it is not undisputed, this article covers the whole topic of Ur and Chaldeans. You can download the PDF by signing in with a Google or FB account.
https://www.academia.edu/44899545/_In_the_Land_of_the_Chaldeans_The_Search_for_Abraham_s_Homeland_Revisited
I can't find the original articles I read about it, more than a decade ago, the internet is very good a burying older stuff. But this newer article is sufficient. I'm surprised you never investigated it.In conversation permalink Attachments
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:30 JST Huntress This jew thinks Sanliurfa is a more sensible location: https://www.thetorah.com/article/ur-kasdim-where-is-abrahams-birthplace In conversation permalink Attachments
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:31 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @BowsacNoodle @Huntress @KingOfWhiteAmerica @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar His departure from Mesopotamia/Ur coincides with the invasion of the guti peoples from the western Caucasus mountains, placing him firmly circa 2100 BC (there is a bit of wiggle room tho). This lines up with the Scriptural timeline as well. In conversation permalink -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:31 JST Huntress Abraham was not from Mesopotamian Ur, that's from Woolley. Ur of the Chaldees is Sanliurfa. In conversation permalink -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:13:31 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar From Eusebius to modern archeological record to the meaning of the word "Chaldee," that it's Sumerian/Mesopotamian is undisputed. Who says it's Sanliurfa? Where are you getting that? In conversation permalink -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:09 JST BowserNoodle ☦️ @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar >Abraham could be a god
That's the sort of thing you say when you have too much cultural relativism and not enough non-academic understanding of the religious context. It's not impossible that he or Noah would've been cargoculted into a "god" by some splinter group, but that's in no way a dominant view and still isn't true regardless of how many learned or leity believe it.In conversation permalink -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:10 JST Huntress No, I had a professor in a private conversation say that Abraham could be a god. If you read much ancient literature the similarities jump out. But it's a topic avoided in lectures because guys like you will start ranting. In conversation permalink -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:11 JST Huntress Meiroop probably doesn't comment on such things, I haven't seen him write about it. If you'd ever studied ANE history, you'd know that it's taboo to say things that might upset jews. They usually sidestep such things, I doubt he's religious.
In general, the Chaldean migration is used as evidence for a late dating of the writing of Genesis.In conversation permalink -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:11 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar So it's only you saying this, got it. In conversation permalink -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:12 JST Huntress No, I think there's a lot more of the OT that is Euhemerist than just the Abraham story.
I'm sorry you're so poorly educated about ANE history, you're missing a lot.
Meiroop is well known, hard to study ANE history without coming across his papers. You should read some of them.In conversation permalink -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:12 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar You're espousing a reverse euhemerism which none of the guys you'd cite would believe.
Are you the only one positing Abraham as storm god? Or is this meiroop guy spouting it too?In conversation permalink -
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Huntress (huntress@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:13 JST Huntress Okay, you find a source that doesn't say the same thing about the Chaldeans. Helpful hint, this is a very well known thing. In conversation permalink -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:13 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar The "very well known thing" is turn-of-the-century archeological opinions which depart not only from the Church's traditional understanding of it, but also T.G. Pinches, Delitzsch, and more.
But that's beside the point. You're making the claim that Abraham is actually a storm god that was humanized for the sake of ceasing human sacrifice, and the closest thing you have in terms of evidence is circumstantial support from supposed thundercults at Turk-Ur. It's all you've got going for you, so you're holding on for dear life to it.In conversation permalink -
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SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 05:14:14 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half) @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @BowsacNoodle @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @KingOfWhiteAmerica @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar In conversation permalink Attachments
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☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 03-Apr-2024 09:34:12 JST ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ @BowsacNoodle @Huntress @toxoplasmosis @Halcyon01 @ThatMushroom @Dagnar @Godcast @KekistaniWanderer @MelGibsonafter4Beers @RangoDingbot @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend @Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @givenup @samjayganges @wingedhussar Even if it could somehow be conclusively proven that Abraham was thirty feet tall and shot lightning bolts from his eyes, calling him “a god” misses the point of the word, and does violence to its meaning. In conversation permalink BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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