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Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:06 JST Godcast (the short half)
- Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
>presuppose evolution is true
>publish just-so story

RT: https://shitposter.club/objects/dd8d5250-ace7-4178-80d6-b0dd0ed4b28b
In conversation about a year ago from poa.st permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:33:59 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Are you listening to the Godcast and arguing with Lutherkeks?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:00 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  - SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  - UnityOstara
  I don't have faith in it. I understand the proof, and observe the preconditions for the proof. I guess I have some degree of faith in my ability to understand language and make simple, repeatable observations and my own sanity and the fidelity of my memory. But evolution is not something that you can have faith in post chaitin. You either accept his logic or you don't.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:01 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  - SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  - UnityOstara
  it's not fiction
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:01 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  in reply to
  - Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  - UnityOstara
  @jeffcliff @Godcast @UnityOstara I understand that you have a lot of faith in it. I simply lack a belief in evolution though. It's OK though, I only believe in one less evolutionary theory than you do.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:02 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  - SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  - UnityOstara
  evolution is a fact
  and birds *are* dinosaurs
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:02 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  in reply to
  - Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  - UnityOstara
  @jeffcliff @UnityOstara @Godcast Well I disagree on both of these counts. Evolution is the whig theory of history imprinted on nature. Pure fiction.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  UnityOstara (unityostara@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:03 JST UnityOstara
  in reply to
  - Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  - SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  @SuperLutheran @jeffcliff @Godcast I get annoyed when people take theory as fact. #birdsAreNotDinosaurs!
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:04 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  - SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  @SuperLutheran @Godcast they go a little more in depth than that
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:04 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  in reply to
  - Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  @jeffcliff @Godcast Oh I'm sure they spend lots of pay-check justifying time on it lmao
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:34:05 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  in reply to
  - Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  @Godcast @jeffcliff "Huh. So this artery looks like something. Must mean that lungs are just repurposed arteries! We have solved the problem, we are serious people."
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:35:24 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  i guess so
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 03:35:24 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  My favorite Lutherkek is opphunter88. He likes to shout “HERESY!” at people, not realizing that Lutheranism is in itself a heresy. So anyway, what’s the gist of their argument? That Darwinian is false because creationism?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:11:09 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  it started with an offhand comment that godcast didn't understand how the lung could co-evolve with the diaphragm
  
  but he was looking in the wrong place: diaphragm-like functionality pre-existed lungs (ie: we have bladders with something like a diaphragm, and early lungs seem to have developed from air bladders, which were useful for bony fish to stay balanced and to have greater depth control).
  
  then the question of whether chromosome changes could occur, since when we observe chromosome changes it's always bad (like down syndrome). But there's an obvious, glaring exception to that : the fusion of pre-human-chimpanzee-split chromosomes. (And of course we see it all the time with drosophilia).
  
  Then the question of the evolution of proteins from simpler forms of matter came up, with godcast clearly not knowing about the discovery of extraterrestrial protein in 2020. They just write that off as a one-of mistake by researchers who found it, since it hasn't been replicated yet.
  
  Then after they noticed that their examples of "what about this?" are falling one after another the question came to be a matter of whether or not evolution had been proved in the general case, in the presence of natural selection (which chaitin did). And of course their fallback is just to accuse me of 'having faith' instead of being convinced by the evidence at hand
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:11:09 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  These kinds of exchanges, in the past, kind of turned me away from God. I don’t know why the faithful die on the hill of evolution, in particular, being false. Then again, I don’t know why atheists die on the hill of God being false because evolution is true.
  Darwinian evolution follows from genetics, mutation, and natural selection, none of which people really denies at this point, so it’s therefore true. Darwinian evolution would be true even if young earth creationism were also true; we’d just need to make an (admittedly rather significant) adjustment to the theoretical rate of mutation between generations.
  This whole topic is a red herring and isn’t even relevant to theology imo
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:22:56 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Not really, since Darwinian evolution selects for genes that reproduce, not for intelligence or strength or whatever else. If having a proboscis that’s 1mm longer is the difference between making it to sexual maturity and dying of starvation beforehand, then proboscislets are doomed, intelligent or otherwise.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:22:57 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  a miracle? sure
  in the same way that rolling a 1d6 1,000,000 times will likely get you 66666 at least once
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:22:57 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara By that reasoning, why are humans the only living creatures walking around on Earth with pocket supercomputers arguing over a global information network? By the "infinite pulls of the slot machine guarantees a jackpot" theory of evolution, it shouldn't have been a one-off deal. In fact, the world should be teeming with human-level intelligent life. Given infinite tries, isn't it actually statistically impossible there was only one singular "jackpot"?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:22:58 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @NEETzsche @jeffcliff @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara Yeah, imo religion and evolution are answering two different questions. Evolution answers "How?" and religion answers "Why?" If you press an evolutionist enough, they'll eventually get to stuff forming out of nowhere, which sounds a lot like a miracle to me.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:27:37 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @jeffcliff The fact that humans are at the top of the food chain is proof positive that human qualities are those that are most fit for survival on Earth. That being the case, what genetic purpose do other forms serve? All life should be human-like or heading in that direction if the system was truly deterministic. If the system is not deterministic, what's the difference between the theory of evolution and "God works in mysterious ways"?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:27:37 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Darwinian evolution isn’t strictly deterministic. It’s random mutation filtered through non-random selection. So while the selective pressures modern humans underwent did amount to greater cognition a la abstract reasoning, linguistic capability, etc, those selective pressures aren’t the same for all species all of the time. Consider: the goal is not to find yourself at the top of the food chain, but to reproduce just one more time.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:28:25 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @jeffcliff I made an edit while you were typing which was rude of me. Sorry about that!
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  NEETzsche likes this.
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:31:47 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Nah it’s cool. I edit shit all the time.
  Anyway, one difference between Darwinian evolution and “God works in mysterious ways,” in light of neither being deterministic, is that Darwinian evolution still offers rules that govern outcomes, whereas “God works in mysterious ways” does not. The genes of a population – usually at the species level – will consistently gravitate toward whatever mutations make them reproduce more. God working in mysterious ways, by contrast, means who the fuck knows what.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:38:25 JST Godcast (the short half)
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara That's not how that works. Something coming from nothing is a logical contradiction. Nothing has no properties to manipulate to create something.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:38:25 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  we're not talking about 'coming from nothing' in this thread. The creation of molecules out of quark-gluon plasma or whatever is totally another topic
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  NEETzsche likes this.
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:44:02 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Darwinian evolution is predictive. People use it to produce outcomes all the time. See: selective breeding. I predict that if I kill or sterilize all the livestock with traits I dislike, and breed all the livestock with traits I like, I will get successive generations that are filled more with traits I like than dislike. This prediction pretty consistently turns out to be correct.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:44:03 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @jeffcliff Does Darwinian evolution claim to be predictive, then? Like it can tell us what dogs or ferrets will look like the next time they evolve? If not, is it really much use to anyone other than as a cheap replacement for (some kinds of) religion? As for replicability, it seems that scientists like to play fast and loose with concepts such as adaptation or mutation, which is quite a bit short of some common ancestor of monkeys (but not all of them, for some reason) turning into humans (a tired example, but for a reason).
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:56:48 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @jeffcliff Mendelian inheritance predated Darwin by quite a bit and is far less controversial. One can observe selective breeding turn a dog into another kind of dog. Nobody has observed a dog being selectively bred into a different species, however.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 04:56:48 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  There are some examples of speciation in modernity, although I’m not sure I can think of any that emerged from selective breeding in particular. Tragopogon miscellus comes to mind. That came from hybrid speciation, where a hybrid of two other species of goatsbeard made a new breed that can reproduce with other members of itself, but not its parent species.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 05:03:50 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  “Now what do we call the author of that simulation???? 🤔 “
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 05:03:51 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @Godcast @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @jeffcliff lol my favorite is the "based on deep statistics, it is an absolute certainty that we are living in a computer simulation" people. Congrats, my dude! You just reinvented religion!!
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 05:03:52 JST Caek Islove ? ❤️
  in reply to
  @Godcast @jeffcliff @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara If anything can emerge from the murky depths of infinite statistics, then why not God?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 05:03:52 JST Godcast (the short half)
  in reply to
  @caekislove @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @jeffcliff God is uncreated and had no beginning. "Before the world was, I am." Though there's an argument for the existence of God in a multiverse scenario that essentially guarantees the existence of God
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:05:24 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  We've been through this before. Because there is no god.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:05:25 JST Godcast (the short half)
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara Interesting. On what grounds?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:05:26 JST Godcast (the short half)
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara An infinite series of multiverses where every logically possible thing happens eventually, yet on your view there's absolutely none where a being analogous to God comes into being and creates a universe?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:05:26 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  correct
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:05:27 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  that multiverse doesn't exist, then
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:54 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  This one
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:55 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  it is falsifiable
  find me a universe with a god in it
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:56 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  but since that *isn't* the case
  we can know it for all existing universes
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:56 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @Godcast @UnityOstara @reloadedAK You're only asserting this dogmatically, according to your religion. It's an unfalsifiable tautology that you keep repeating like a creed passed down to you
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:57 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
  in reply to
  @reloadedAK @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @Godcast @UnityOstara He won't admit that possibility because such a Divine being would end up existing in all possible universes. If God is possible, then God is actual.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:58 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  no contradictions detected
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  reloadedAK :ak: (reloadedak@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:58 JST reloadedAK :ak:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara If there are infinite possible multiverses with infinite combinations, then eventually there will be one with some kind of central divine being
  
  If there is not that possibility then there is no such thing as an infinite multiverse and there is only this one we have
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  reloadedAK :ak: (reloadedak@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:34:59 JST reloadedAK :ak:
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @Godcast @caekislove @NEETzsche @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara >infinite multiverses
  >not one of them has God in them
  
  Jeff my man you have to be holding these contradictions in a death grip
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:37:42 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Um actually????
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯 (jeffcliff@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:37:43 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🦝🐙🇱🇧🧯
  in reply to
  bzzzt incorrect
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Crux_Invictus (crux_invictus@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:41:37 JST Crux_Invictus
  in reply to
  @Godcast @jeffcliff @SuperLutheran @caekislove @NEETzsche @UnityOstara @reloadedAK
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Godcast (the short half) (godcast@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:41:38 JST Godcast (the short half)
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @SuperLutheran @caekislove @NEETzsche @UnityOstara @reloadedAK You're lookin' at it, pal
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:43:54 JST NEETzsche
  in reply to
  Dogpiling Jeff Cliff is one of the few times when various kinds of Christkeks set aside our differences and stop denomination warring.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Christi Junior (christijunior@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Tuesday, 03-Oct-2023 06:43:55 JST Christi Junior
  in reply to
  @jeffcliff @caekislove @NEETzsche @Godcast @SuperLutheran @UnityOstara @reloadedAK Damn nigger, I call myself an atheist because I don't believe in God (at least not the personal, Christian conception of God), but in actuality I'm more of an agnostic because claiming to KNOW for sure that God doesn't exist is just stupid. Claiming to KNOW that there's NO God in any possible universe? Bro, we are reaching levels of Fedorafaggotry that should not be possible :pepe_fedora:
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink

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